What if YOU could PREVENT a MURDER???

[Gwydion]

Would you make the effort to save a life if you could??

In Iraq lives are being taken every day - 100,000 deaths due to the invasion and occupation according to the medical journal The Lancet.

John Howard and the other warmakers want everyone to believe that there is nothing we can do to stop their war for oil - that we've had our big

protest but that we failed.

The truth is very different.

The truth is that people power can stop the war in Iraq - just like it stopped the war in Vietnam.

The truth is that every time people come out to demonstrations (big or small) we are helping to bring this about.

The truth is that the peace movement has already had a big impact, has already put pressure on governments to stay out of the war altogether

or to withdraw their troops early, has already given confidence to the 1000s of soldiers who have turned their backs on the war, has already given more space to the Iraqi people's resistance, has so far prevented further invasions of other countries...

The truth is that the peace movement has already saved lives! And will save more lives, if only we have the confidence to keep on going!

It is worth the effort to come along to the anti-war/peace rallies to be held this weekend. Whatever sacrifices we have to make to get to the

nearest rally, you can be assured that the people in Iraq will be making bigger sacrifices.

If it is hard to see the point of coming to a rally, think about what you would do if you could see the slaugher in front of your eyes, if it

were children from your local primary school that were being killed, if it was your community that still had to go without adequate power and water

two years later, if you could see the soldiers guarding oil pipelines but killing people...

If the results of your participation in the rally do not seem so immediate,that doesn't mean that the results are not real!

During the Vietnam war governments pretended to ignore the popular protests,but the secret documents now revealed prove this was not the case.

Join the international day of action on this (Palm Sunday) weekend.

Forward this message and bring your friends. Take a stand for justice, for democracy and for peace...

Details of actions around Australia:

Adelaide: Sun March 20, noon. Assemble outside Downer and Hill's office, 100 King William St, city. Organised by NoWar. Ph 0414 773 918.

Brisbane: Sun March 20, 1pm. Roma St Forum, city. Organised by Rally for Peace and Nuclear Disarmament & Stop the War Collective. Ph (07) 3831 2644.

Canberra: Sat March 19, 12.30pm. Garema Pl., Civic. Organised by ACT Network Opposing War. Ph (02) 6247 2424, (02) 6247 0568.

Darwin: Sun March 20, 11am. Nightcliff Markets. Organised by NoWar. Ph (08) 8985 6631.

Hobart: Sat March 19, noon. Parliament Lawns. Organised by Peace Coalition. Ph 0413 976 638.

Melbourne: Fri March 18, 5.30pm. State Library, Melbourne. Organised by Stop the War Coalition. Ph (03) 9639 8622.

Newcastle: Sun March 20, 11am. Pacific Park, Newcastle. Organised by Newcastle No War Collective. Ph (02) 4926 5328.

Perth: Sun March 20, 1pm. Fremantle. Organised by WA NoWar Alliance. Ph (08)9218 9608.

Sydney: Sun March 20, noon. Hyde Park Nth, Sydney. Featuring John Pilger & Senator Kerry Nettle. Organised by Stop the War Coalition. Ph 0412 139 968,0404 015 789.

Wollongong: Sun March 20. Join the "peace carriage" to the Sydney protest on March 20. Organised by Illawarra NoWar. Ph 0403 554 512.

For actions around the world, check out these websites:

World Social Forum: http://www.stopwar.org.uk/march20/index.asp

USA: http://www.internationalanswer.org

http://www.unitedforpeace.org

http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

Britain: http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

New Zealand: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/19mar05.htm

Canada: http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/events.html

[Jesus On Peyote]

Dont stop the war!

so far Mr bush has freed Afghanistan and Iraq,

the only thing stopping real peace their is stupid extreamists.

Im sick of hearing anti american shit,has everyone forgotten what good they have done for the world??

If it wasent for the west South korea would be a famine infested dump like north korea.

And it is because of hippies that protested during vietnam that the commies overran south vietnam, killing millions in the prosses.

you say you want to save life?

Not doing anything will kill far more on the wider scale.

[ 17. March 2005, 06:44: Message edited by: Jesus On Peyote ]

[reptyle]

what exactly did the "hippy" protestors have to do with the "commies" overrunning anything?

the situation witht he war in iraq seems to have changed a little in terms of involvement. i felt originally that it was the wrong thing to do going to war for the sake of capitalist ideals by the hand of money grabbing bastard that have no real care for human life, however now mos tof the damage has been done, they are trying to improve the situation, thi may involve the large corporations making lots of money out of it but the people are finally getting what they need. would it be the right thing to do to pull out and let the "rebels" turn iraq back into a chaotic mess? i cant say i think so. what should be opposesed however is any profits from iraq being allowed to be directed into the american economy, money from iraq should stay in iraq whilst it is being rebuilt, all company doing work in iraq should be owned my iraqies. this would allow for a truely independant country instead of being just a nother puppet covered by a flag.

[apothecary]

Jesus on Peyote, a wise man once said

“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

The South Korean government routinely suppresses the press, uses National Security Laws (like the U.S PATRIOT act) to arrest people who don't agree with them, talk of reunification with the North. They raid press houses with "questionable" material and hold people under arrest without a charge.

They have no issues with sending riot police to quell worker union protests with force. Why are the workers protesting? Lack of rights.

The South Korean government won't sign the UN agreement against anti-personnel mines because the US has almost half their world stockpile in mines in Korea to "fight" the North.

The south of Vietnam wasn't overrun by communists because the US pulled out. It's because the people wanted a communist government. A government is there to serve it's people! If the hippies represented enough of the US population that the government had to pull the troops out of Vietnam, that is what the people wanted!

Mr Bush didn't free Afghanistan or Iraq. Get your facts straight. In the 80's the CIA trained and supplied the Afghani Muja'hadeen to fight the USSR. They PUT the Taliban in powder.

The CIA not only funded, but encouraged and physically assisted the Ba'ath party coup to power. Who was the head of the Ba'ath party? Saddam Hussein. Why? So the US would have someone to fight Iran.

You see, but you are blind to what is happening around you. You hear, but you don't listen to the stifled cries of inhumanity all over the world.

Do you want to know who the wise man was? Jesus. Look it up. Matthew 13:13.

[Tryptameanie]

Amen.

Reptyle- the point is that the American military are there to ensure that the profit from Iraqi labour and resources DOES flow straight back to America.

You say that Iraq will turn back into a "chaotic mess", but that's what it is currently, and will stay that way as long as a foreign occupation continues.

Your argument relies on the assumption that Iraqis are incapable of governing themselves, but they have hardly been given a chance by the imperialist powers, first Britain and then the US.

[ 17. March 2005, 11:35: Message edited by: Tryptameanie ]

[2b]

 

quote:

---

'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

---

Ezekiel 25:17 or was that Samuel L. Jackson ?

[ 17. March 2005, 11:49: Message edited by: 2b ]

[Hagakure]

i strongly beleive that america should not have gone in but the question of what to do now they are in is a really tricky one.

im not totally convinced that pulling out would solve the problem.

[waterdragon]

Jesus On Peyote:

Dont stop the war!

so far Mr bush has freed Afghanistan and Iraq,

bwaaahaaaaa. who ordered the comedy act?

can we get dancing girls, whisky and nibblies too. great site this, it really lays on the entertainment.

[waterdragon]

bwaahhaaahaha....gasp....hahaha. still not over it. much thigh slapping happening here.

[Gwydion]

The question of what to do now is actually a very simple one- the violence continues primarilly because of the presence of the occupying troops. The iraqi people are opposed to being occupied- not only the fundamentalists, but the moderates, the secular parts of society, and, heck, even the US-'friendly' parties want them to leave (or at least claim so).

The issue of violence in Iraq after the troops leave is not one that can be *solved* while they are there. If islamic fanaticists continue a campaign of violence after troops leave, however, the main justification for their violence would have evaporated. For the rest of the resistance, who are NOT islamicists, the need for violence will have left with the troops, and the role any violent groups would play would be detrimental to Iraq, and unpopular.

It would be nice to think that "hippies" protesting alone could stop the war- it takes more than this however. It takes the resistance of the Iraqi people, and the refusal of the soldiers to fight. This is already happening, with about 5500 US troops refusing to fight.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p14.htm

Jesus on Peyote, I can barely even bring myslf to answer such trash, but with 100,000 dead Iraqis, 4 million dead Koreans, 3 million dead Vietnamese, countless dead around the rest of the World from 'little' wars that the US has been involved in, I don't think I really need to. You're talking gibberish.

The only thing you've got right was the last line of your post: "Not doing anything will kill far more on the wider scale." I agree, which is why I call upon all of you to come to the rally you are nearest to next weekend. Not doing anything makes us complicit in the ongoing murder of Iraqi civilians, the plunder of their land (including their seed stocks- all agriculture in Iraq must now be GMO- by law), and the contamination of their environment by depleted uranium.

There is one point more I would like to mention. When the British finally lef Iraq, they set up a toy king, to do their bidding, with a toy army. The Iraqi people drove him out and set up a democratic republic. Over the years this republic was less than ideal, largely due to foreign meddling, but also due to internal grievances against those groups who had aided the occupiers. Eventually, the foreign meddling led to the rise of the Ba'athist party, the murder of tens of thousands of communists, and the war with Iran. Guess who? Hussein and the US.

The point is that the Iraqis, left to their own business, can set up a viable society. But the more we try to *fix* things, the more we are condemning them to anarchy, violence and suffering.

Troops out now!

Iraq for Iraqis!

[Jesus On Peyote]

Hmmm kay,

Well im not gonna talk no more about korea or vietnam coz i wasent even born then, ( jus stated what i was tought in history)

But on iraq i beleave the things will scale down alot over the next few months (like it has since the election) unless america tries to start another war with iran or syria.

and now the official goverment is in its kinda looking better for the iraqis.the ONLY thing things that can screw stuff up now is if america starts another war around there or if the extreamists keep blowing up their OWN people up.

And another thing,its not just america thats "evil" if u look at the powers of the past its all the same,whoever has the best army creates wars to help themselfs,just because were living in 2005 it doesent make a differance.

Don worry tho, america wont be around for much longer,n hey neither will we

[ 17. March 2005, 20:54: Message edited by: Jesus On Peyote ]

[Leo^]

america = ghey

australia = pwnage :D

[jasemateau]

well when the subject of oil and these countrys involved in muslim religions and traditions. it's a very touchy subject to all but once you have been to these countrys and see how there socity functions you will be even more confused.

i was in kuwait for a few months from nov 03 till jan 04, and when i was there i had to ask what the locals thought the war was about, i got from so many locals that actually the war was about oil..

but the locals very happy to tell the in great detail that actually the reason why they deciced to take down saddam apart from the way he had robbed his own country and surpress his society into poverty yet there was squilions of dollars being made from oil.

the locals belive the main reason why the americans interviened was after saddam tried to take over kuwait for more oil, and defeated because of the international response.

they belived he had made some kind of a deal with afganistan to bulid a pipeline over to the afgan coast, because the tiny coast line that iraq has is simply not big enough to service the oil demand. so if he had a pipeline through to afganistan it would actually run right through the region that osama bin ladin is most popular. the locals belived that if saddam able to go ahead with all this business, osama bin ladan would simply tax iraq for oil passing through his region, leaving him very well rich enough to purchase al sorts of arms, with a endless supply of money who could stop him. its fucking crazy i know with all sucide bombers. but once you have been over there and worked with the arab people. you will understand that in many aspects of modern life they are simply in the dark. and if the rest of the world did'nt ever need oil these poeple would still be living in tents and clay huts in the desert.

and the way there spend money is just incredable. i remeber one night i was at a function we had catered for, this lady had trown a wedding ceremony for her daughter there was 1000 guests, mum had decided that she did'nt like the grand ball room so she had a interior designer in to temperaly change the ball room. after she had paid almost US$1.5 million to the hotel for the whole thing she got the wedding cake in from french wedding cake store located in kuwait "opera" which she paid US$30,000, and because mum was still not satisfied with how much she loved her daughter mum insisted to tip all the 100 staff after the party each US$100 dollars.

i was i fucking shock to an unxplicable level.

i remember very clearly every one of these little beggers from egypt (hotel workers) lining up for a%20 bonus for the months salary.

after everyone had gone through i just stared at this mother with enough jewels to sink a battle ship. in disbelif!!!!! that she got any satisfaction out of this. she then noticed me staring at her and as she walked off she pointed over to me and said to me dont worry i have somthing very special for you, (i had met her earlier to confirm she was happy with all her food set up)

i know it sounds crazy to some, but i told her that i did'nt want any money from you, because it does'nt mean anything to you.

kuwiat is said to be the richest country's in the world.

the local kuwaiti's are humble to cacasian looking people, they dont hate us, many of them will thank any american,australian for hepl with the invasion of saddam, witch never ment anything to me. i always thought i'm not the one who deserves the thanks. (its the fallen in my opinion)

however whilst conversing with them i always felt like they saw us the most stupid race of all.

i now belive they could have some to this conclusion that we of the other beings on earth need so much oil but to them the land is useless and see it as sand i think they belive that we must be stupid to think that sand is so valuable.

i think people that are so advance in medicine and society structure's,

we should be investing more money into altenate sources of energy and fuels and use our own resources to bulid wealth within our own society, like we have so many sugarcane fields almost usless because its cheaper to import sugar than what we can renfine it ourselves, but what about ethanol!!!!!!!!!!

if we invested as much money these oils sheks throw at people to have there luxurys, our soceity and economics could be so much stonger and properous.

i dont hate arabs with oil, i do hate that when every time i HAVE to put fuel in my vehicle the money is going back to them, when they have no repect for it, (money)

i've said my peace

[Tryptameanie]

quote:

---

i dont hate arabs with oil, i do hate that when every time i HAVE to put fuel in my vehicle the money is going back to them, when they have no repect for it, (money)

---

:confused:

[Rev]

Before 9/11 i hated the uS cos i already knew what theyd been up to right from their inception

then i stood bewildered as the people around be were so frikkin gullible even as the truth poked them right in the eye

Then the shit went down in iraq and i had the bittersweet frustration of being in the position of 'i told you so'

then i felt better cos we had elections and it seemed we might learn a lesson

but we didnt

and neither did the US

and who gives a fuck about the UK cos thyere just like the rest -2 party 'democracies' with 2 right wings

so now i think that its all pointless

we, those who value international cooperation, human rights, the sanctity of peace, freedom and fairness, have lost

when my countrymen in the face of KNOWING the truth. unlike the uS our media mad a hell of a lot more coverage on the truth behind the war.

in SPITE of knowing they still voted for howard cos they chose a lie of safety and security over doing the right thing

so i lost all hope and respect for our public

so now i look after myself and dont believe in politics. its all futile

its not about people not knowing cos they did

its about people not caring

its about a system of values that makes people think more of minor contraints to their over consumption than of compassion, equality and humanism - of aspirations to a better world, to evolution beyond what we are

and its about people who are fucking sheep and think that an explosion over the night sky of baghdad means 'we are winning', and not "oh my god how many people just fucking died right then and how many are maimed and in excruciating pain'

you just cant fight that mentaility. And whatever the news coverage its no justification. Any adult can if they choose to tell a lie from reality and it only starts with suspicion, the desire to question - rather the people CHOSE to believe the easy lie

In the end u have to ask whether u r the last man standing when everybody has turned their backs. It feels like that, except i c there r other s who still believe that if the ideal is just true enough, if people just know what REALLY going on, then these same people who knew but ignored before will become proactive. I dont

I think they r fucked and cos of that im fucked cos we all go down in the ship together. and with the beauty of our political system i realise there isnt a damn thing i can do about it cos its not about lies or exposue its about the lack of will of the people to be humane, independent and intelligent . so im goin to go pack my liferaft instead and take my chances

so fuckem this country and ones like will get just what they deserve in the end

 

quote:

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Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.

 

Benjamin Franklin

---

[ 18. March 2005, 21:48: Message edited by: Rev ]

[waterdragon]

there is nothing that will convince me that the majority of australians/americans voted for that fuckwit howard/bush. i honestly believe that elections are a pre-organised spectacle to give the illusion of democracy. the global agenda is being set by companies with the turnover of small nations, you only have to look at how insurance companies are shaping the current workforce. if political donations were abolished we would see a very different political landscape.

while i've got my wish list out, i'd like to see everyone that calls for war to go fight that war in person.

[ 19. March 2005, 17:53: Message edited by: waterdragon ]

[apothecary]

waterdragon, of course the majority of australians or americans didnt vote for their respective fuckwits.

The majority of people who VOTED voted for their respective fuckwits.

The traditional right wing voters tend to turn out in far more numbers than the left.

Voter apathy is a big problem!

[nabraxas]

i am certainly against the war, & while i personally very much doubt the value ov protest i certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from doing so.

yesu on mescaline is a troller. best to ignore or laugh at.

the violence continues primarilly because of the presence of the occupying troops --seems to me alot ov it has been directed at the now ruling shia majority by the now voiceless sunni minority--probably fueled by fundamentalist sunni's from outside iraq.

many moderate sunni's do not consider shi-ites to be muslims in any sense, they are as ripe for jihad as we are.

[ 20. March 2005, 05:46: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[jasemateau]

muslim guidlines to inner peace, is from what i have observed not guidelines as such more like laws!!!!!!

prey 5 times a day, wash your hands and feet before each prayer. women MUST have thier faces covered until they are married and once they are married only when she is in the house with her family she can take the face mask off.

sex before marriage is punishable with upto 10 years in jail. then they have to marry their cousins.

they have to go too same sex schools, and most and i meant upto %90 of mens first sexual experience is homosexual.

these people have been under sooooo much control thru religon for 100's and 100's of years they are obviously and somewhat terrified i guess to change all of that they know and have known for so long. who could they trust????????

and to chuck in a democratic architect. fuck to them why should they change thier race has survived the most arid region of earth so ofcourse they gunna stick to what they know.

with all these strict laws, they can be the exact negative refection, media has documented to well.

get this when arrived in kuwiat i was told i was not ever allowed to have another woman in my apartment under any circumstances.

i thought they had to be joking but it was'nt untill later that noticed that the police would make some almost invasive sweeps of our massive expat apartment building, thats when i was told about the jail term for sex before marriage.

i was outta there as soon as possible.

coz if they found my brew of fucking great wine they would send me to jail for god knows how long.

the veiw i have is the people in this religion.

cant change and why sould we try to change them.

it the same as trying to tell a christian that there is no scientific proof to many prophacys in the bible.

that will always piss off the christians.

so we are back to where we started.

is it murder or not??????.

it's more like the first stage of the human devolving.

please excuse spelling errors, i'm no professor,

but i;m comfortable with my opinion.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Rev,

I think the people in aus voted for howard coz latham was a toss n dident know how to run this land,all he did was say the opisetof what howard did and coz the the war aint the only important thing in australia.

And i think people are too hard howard,now i aint exactly his biggest fan but hes done an ok job so far.

[ 21. March 2005, 00:40: Message edited by: Jesus On Peyote ]

[Rev]

JOP you must have a bigger stash than first thought...

If lots of peyote makes Johnny seem ok then i can i come over and join u cos the nausea cant b any worse than when i hear that litle fuck lie through his teeth every other day.

The onle reason people still think johnnies ok is cos were going through a propserous time (thats unrelated to him - as much of the world is going through the same)

However the boom is nearly over and as cycles go its near time again for 'the recession we had to have'

and thats when the full weight of what hes done will hit home

when all those services you thought u still had arent there anymore

[waterdragon]

funny how every govt claims unprecedented growth and prosperity, i think we've had about twenty years of it now. i think the media would have people believe that howard is doing a good job but the media can be stingy with the truth. it's getting harder to see the line between media,corporation and government as they all seem to be running similar agendas.

people in this country actually have the power to collectively make a difference, by judicious purchasing and a move towards greater responsibility for our own consumption we could reshape the face of this nation.

[marsha]

Once upon a time it was common for countries to invade and take over weaker lands for example this beautiful country we live in now. USA has simply invaded for its own needs. Weapons of mass destruction u have to be kidding how easily the world forgets USA is the only government to use these against people the Japanese!? but how dare a country in threat of invasion from others and neighbours ie Iraq have such weapons. Oh America u grand whore of lies,greed and deception!