New PEAs scheduled soon

[Torsten]

The TGA is looking ar scheduling a set of popular PEAs. These substances are covered by the analogs clauses in most/all states anyway, but having them scheduled in the federal list means they automatically and specifically become illegal in each state.

The federal law won't come into effect for a few months yet (provided they actually get scheduled at the next meeting, which is kinda unavoidable), but keep in mind that they are already illegal under analogs laws.

2C-T-7

2C-T-2

2C-I

5MeO-AMT

[gomaos]

But will the police know?

I have heard of a case, where police raided someone and found, among other things, 30 or so milligrams of "foxy" (no you cop spies I don't give you the proper name work it out for yourselves).

Obviously they analyzed it, couldn't find anything wrong it, and returned it to the owner.

[Torsten]

sorry gom, but that story doesn't add up. Police uses GC/MS or HPLC to determine the ID of compounds. Foxy is certainly in their library.

Three explanations.

1) The foxy wasn't foxy, but rather a compounds that is not in the GC/MS database yet.

2) The sample never got tested for some reason.

3) The story isn't quite true.

[Thelema]

if you look at the wording of the customs analog clause, 5meo-AMT is not covered.

The reason for this is that, surprisingly, the analogue clause in the customs act does not cater for substances modified by SUBTRACTION from a known scheduled chemical.

Since AMT is not listed in the customs schedule either (but IS in the TGA AppendixA schedule) it follows that 5meoAMT cannot be formed by ADDITION to a known scheduled either. At the moment 5meoAMT is actually legal to import (as is AMT, BTW, just not for human purposes)

As for state analog clauses in drug acts, I have never seen one, I know for a fact that there is no analog clause in the Misuse of Drugs Act in WA.(although they do have a blanket clause for "all PEA's")

It would be interesting to see if the failure to form by subtraction is also present in state analog drug clauses. In which case, AMT would probably still be legal, and hence 5meoAMT also.

I would be inclined to believe goms story, as there are quite a few states where tryptamine's are not covered by blanket clauses in states that have no general analog clauses. For instance, if you got caught in these states with foxy there would be nothing they could do, except maybe under federal law get you for breach of customs importation under analog of DMT, which is a bit of a chemical stretch. For a misdemeanor too, as DPP id stay away from it.

[ 02. December 2004, 20:52: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Thelema:

if you look at the wording of the customs analog clause, 5meo-AMT is not covered.

The reason for this is that, surprisingly, the analogue clause in the customs act does not cater for substances modified by SUBTRACTION from a known scheduled chemical.

Didn't we establish a little while ago that the customs act import regulations and schedules do not contain an analogs clause? So what are you working from?? As there is no analogs clause there is neither anything about addition, nor subtraction.

So, essentially most tryptamines are not customs prohibited.

(but IS in the TGA AppendixA schedule)

??? Am I looking at the wrong schedule here? Is this the same as the SUSDP appendixA?? Cos it certainly isn't mentioned there (which would be a good thing, cos this is the exemptions).

As for state analog clauses in drug acts, I have never seen one

In the NSW drug act the analogs clause follows schedule 1. It is extremely extensive. But you are right, it does not allow for subtraction, only addition. This makes all dimethyl, diethyl dipropyl etc tryptamine illegal (eg foxy), but it does not affect the monoamine tryptamines like AMT. I do not know the qld state drug act and its analogs clause, but I know that most states have some form of analogs clause.

[Thelema]

There certainly is a customs importation analogue clause, I wrote about it here more than a year ago:

http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/cgi-bin...t=001648#000000

As for the the TGA appendixA, whoops, I meant AppendixB, little difference, here it is, AMT is listed:

http://www.tga.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixb.htm

BTW T, where did you get this info?

[ 03. December 2004, 02:24: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Thelema:

There certainly is a customs importation analogue clause, I wrote about it here more than a year ago:

OK, I looked at that page and then at schedule VI and I think you are wrong. The customs act does not have any schedules. The customs act has regulations which contain schedules. So I presume you are referring to these. These are divided into import and export regulations and under import the drugs are listed in schedule IV and firearms in schedule VI. So I don't understand how the analogs clause would be in scheudle VI. If this was simply a misspelling and you meant schedule IV, then that is wrong too as there is no analogs clause in schedule IV - at least not in the 2000 reprint of the act and regulations in front of me. They may have provided an analogs clause since then, but I have all notices up to 2003 and it wasn't in them.

You also mention column 2/3 in that post. There are no columns in the customs act schedule IV (or VI for that matter). Columns are generally used in the state drug acts as these provide for penalty maximums.

As for the the TGA appendixA, whoops, I meant AppendixB, little difference, here it is, AMT is listed:

Ahhh, you are using website law. Never a good idea!!!!

What you call appendix B of the TGA is in fact schedule 4 of the customs act import regulations. I've never understood why they put appendix B on top of that page. Appendix B of the TG act is 'intentionally blank'. It may be that it was left blank because it mirrors the customs schedule, but I can't find any reference to that.

It's an interesting page though as my customs schedule 4 is about 4 years old and they have put a shitload of new stuff on it now.

BTW T, where did you get this info?

Twas at the end of the post meeting gazette for october.

[Thelema]

HERE it is then from AUSTLII, scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see the columns and substances. I dont know why your copy of the act doesnt have this, I typed it out from a hard copy of the act myself.It is schedule VI too. It is also plain that this schedule is from the act, not from regulations either.geez you make me work hard.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/con...01124/sch6.html

[Torsten]

I'm going to get myself a new copy..... back soon

[Fractalhead]

OK. I don't know the first thing about law, but my reading of these words below suggests to me that AMT would be covered by these anlalogue laws. Maybe there is a different set of analogue laws by which AMT is not covered? Please explain.

I think it is points diii and div that do it: Point iv says that if you replace one of the groups listed in point diii (including a dialklylamine group) with one of the others listed in point diii (including a mono-amine group), you have an analogue. The alpha-methyl group of AMT is also covered by the 'addition' part in point iii. Interestingly, they don't specify mono-alkylamines so I wonder what the go is there??

In any case, it wouldn;t be hard to fuck someone over with legal bullshit like point e:

(e) otherwise an homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure;

however obtained, except where the drug analogue is separately specified in this Schedule

Exactly how do you define substantially similar in chemical structure?

A substance ("drug analogue") which is, in relation to another substance (being a substance specified elsewhere in this Schedule, or a stereoisomer, a structural isomer (with the same constituent groups) or an alkaloid of such a substance):

(a) a stereoisomer; or

( a structural isomer having the same constituent groups; or

© an alkaloid; or

(d) a structural modification obtained in 1 or more of the following ways:

(i) by the replacement of up to 2 carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures with different carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures;

(ii) by the addition of hydrogen atoms to 1 or more unsaturated bonds;

(iii) by the addition of 1 or more of the following groups, namely alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, mono-amino and dialkylamino groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue; alkyl, alkenyl and alkynyl groups with up to 6 carbon atoms in the group, where the group is attached to oxygen (for example, an ester or an ether group), nitrogen, sulphur or carbon; and halogen, hydroxy, nitro and amino groups;

(iv) by the replacement of 1 or more of the groups specified in subparagraph (iii) with another such group or groups;

(v) by the conversion of a carboxyl or an ester group into an amide group; or

(e) otherwise an homologue, analogue, chemical derivative or substance substantially similar in chemical structure;

however obtained, except where the drug analogue is separately specified in this Schedule

The minimum trafficable quantity of:

(a) that other substance in relation to which the substance is a drug analogue; or

( if there is more than 1 such other substance—that other substance having the least minimum trafficable quantity

The minimum commercial quantity, if any, of:

(a) that other substance in relation to which the substance is a drug analogue; or

( if there is more than 1 such other substance— that other substance having the least minimum commercial quantity.

[Auxin]

I wonder if that covers N-methyl-N-isopropyl-4-hydroxy tryptamine alpha-L-rhamnopyranosyl-(1 --> 4)-ß-D-glucopyranoside... doesnt really look like it unless they use the 'very similar' loophole, hmmm... I'll stick with plants.

[Thelema]

if tryptamine then becomes a DMT analogue if you are right, makes you wonder if tryptophan would also be classed as a DMT analogue. Obviously the strength of AMT being a DMT analog then depends upon the plausibility of deeming the intermediary tryptamine a DMT analog first.

On a side note, I just fail to see why mention should be made of 5meoAMT in the SUSDP, whilst AMT is still not mentioned??

[ 16. December 2004, 13:12: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[Jaffa]

In the first post here the State analog laws were refered to. Does this mean that the PEA's mentioned would not yet be illegal in the ACT or NT?

[Torsten]

state... territory... same diff.

[Thelema]

EXCEPT those states that dont have one eg. WA

[Guest d0tb0y]

I know a FOAF who ran into some cop trouble. They analysed everything including some RC's like foxy/ 5-aco-mipt etc and they sent them back to him, including his heavily used bong.

Check a seizure list for chems - you'll find it's mostly related to methamphetamine manufacture.