nsw+drug testing

[nabraxas]

tom--what i mean is you will never hear a member ov bob carrs labour govt, saying they will legalise MJ.

He is convinced Mj is a gateway drug & is as hard on it & users as anyone--it's NSW where the cops can do random searches w/drug sniffer dogs on ALL public transport & at any major event.

sure he isn't so stoopid as to deny the benefits ov harm minimisation--but does that make him "soft on drugs" like the Herald Sun says?

[tomtom]

nabraxas all your observations are correct ..and so is everone elses (when it comes to polititians) ..i think its their job to make the people that smoke dope think that there is hope for an eventual de-criminilisation . and for all the people against drugs that there is no way that they will ever go down that road ...they also know that there is a lot of people that do smoke and that adds up to votes , so they dangle a carrot out to these misguided folks . beleive me , i'm only 43 yrs old and i dont know how many times i've had that carrot of hope snatched away from us after i had voted the a-holes in..(both sides)..they drive me nuts :mad:

[AndyAmine.]

Just FYI, a chronic long term smoker can show cannabanoids up in a blood test for anywhere up to 3 months and possibly more.

I remember, about 5 yrs ago, that whenever a friend of a friend of mine who was among other things a chronic hydroponic smoker of 4.-7gm's a day (give or take), was going through a formal detox he received weekly urine based drug tests that had concentration levels on it in the form of a "+" rating system going up to 5. He often received a 5 on arrival then (if he didn't continue to smoke;) he would start decreasing a "+" each week until it slowed down to every 2-3 weeks, then totally clear after 2.5 to 3 months as it worked its way out of his fat tissue. (hmm, they say the brain is 1/3 soluble fat tissue)

Something else that often happened over the years was a lot of false positives for A.m*phet^ami+ne when using certain hey fever and cough & cold meds, although the following link from the Vic Gov states that this will not be a problem and also answers a few questions asked here with some finality.

http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_drugs_faq.html

As a side note he often recived false postives in general, so never be afraid to query or ask for another one, they screw up a lot so they havent got much of a leg to stand on if you take it to court becasue you could cite a hundred other cases of false positives.

Below is from a page hosted by UK Transport that has some very interesting refferances and excerpts.

 

"THC and it's metabolites can be present for weeks or even months in regular users, making determination of recency of use practically impossible. Aderjan (1998) reports a case of detection of cannabinoids after 11 weeks in a 10 year regular user. Blood and urine have received most extensive attention with respect to detection of cannabis consumption."

UK Transport (link to said page with more interesting findings)

[gomaos]

Many people need cannabis to cope with their lives, and it really does help them cope

Crap! I was a heavy dope smoker for over 20 years (first thing in the morning/last thing before i passed out,and every other chance in between... you know the idea)I used to think that i needed it to cope , but my friend it's the other way around.

Well that's how you conceive it. Mind you, I can understand your being fanatically against dope after stopping after 20 years.

I feel exactly the same about alcohol, whose sole purpose in my life appeared to be wanting to destroy me.

What you say about cannabis tells me that you belong to the people who are indeed in danger of becoming addicted to this drug.

I lived for one year or longer with a bloke who was in the grip of cannabis addiction just like you described it.

In the end I had to ask him to leave (originally he had only intended to stay a couple of weeks),

because I couldn't and wouldn't participate in his lifestyle.

For me Cannabis is fun, I don't smoke until I'm senseless.

I claim to be able to use it, not abuse it.

i claim to be in control.

Just like some alcohol users claim they can handle it.

For me cannabis is solely beneficial.

Mixing cannabis and tobacco is one source of addiction.

i did it myself for a long time and know that the 2 used together almost become a different drug alltogether.

Anyhow, I have beaten alcohol and tobacco addiction, and cannabis is my choice. for me it's good.

Dope creates all the problems you think you just can't deal with

I do not agree. Most of my problems are created by society, who has persecuted me for most of my adult life for not being "a man of the middle" and solely drinking stinking alcohol but smoking c. instead.

I've no end of mates who are depressed struggling to pay bills and raise a family and claiming the only respite they get is when they smoke so life has to at least have one thing going for it ?

well that's certainly very common

Don't get me wrong i still smoke when i can

if you think it's bad for you, you should give it up just like I gave up alcohol and tobacco,

because they were trying to kill me.

if it wasn't for the arrival of my first child and my wife constantly breaking my balls about always being stoned i would not have changed a thing .But now looking back on it i am amazed .

your wife breaking your balls about...

sometimes I feel really happy about being single after living in 2er relationships for most of the past 30 years...

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my eperience many ppl are depressed because they smoke dope, end of story.

Now it's my turn to say: BULLCRAP!!!

that is absolutely not true and you must know that.

You know the type "the world is fucked because...."

the world is fucked up because there are too many right winged dumbfucks who vote for Howard and Bush, and the like.

And believe in conservative politics and apply them to life.

That's why the world is fucked.

End of story.

meat is yummy............

well maybe it is, I eat it myself because i have resigned myself to it, but really the human body doesn not really need meat, and instead of growing stupid cows on millions of acres in Australia I'd rather they grow cannabis instead.

Same goes for that evil plant sugar... I'd rather see cannabis planting instead of them...

which is just my point of view of course...

[Benzedrine]

To me the introduction of these tests just shows how accepting of a police state we have become. I mean why should the police have the right to test free citizens for drugs or alcohol without probable cause. To me this a search without a warrant. If the police are allowed to take up someones time with random tests because we may or may not be guilty of something.

To me this is the sort of thing that designates us prisoners since birth just because we were unlucky enough to be citizens of this land of seizures without convictions and jail without a judge. Oh and the rich will get away with it, the police aren't gonna pull over many mercedes or limos and do "random" drug tests.

[nabraxas]

To me this is the sort of thing that designates us prisoners since birth just because we were unlucky enough to be citizens of this land of seizures without convictions and jail without a judge. Oh and the rich will get away with it, the police aren't gonna pull over many mercedes or limos and do "random" drug tests. ---just thought that needed repeating w/more volume.

nice one Benz

[gerbil]

 

quote:

---

Many people need cannabis to cope with their lives, and it really does help them cope

---

-gom

 

quote:

---

Crap! I was a heavy dope smoker for over 20 years (first thing in the morning/last thing before i passed out,and every other chance in between...

---

-2b

2benubee, I definately don't agree with what you've said. Reread that very first bit you quoted and respdonded to and you'll see how laughable that initial response is. I for one use cannabis because it does improve my life and help me cope with all the terrible things humans are doing, though that's only part of my point for use. I don't see how my use is 'Crap', that is actually quite insulting to say the least.

Just because you were a heavy smoker flaked out all the time, doesn't mean other people can't use it responsibly in their lives for a strong benefit, no offence but i think that first statement is extremely ignorant and only focuses on your own (negative??) experience.

 

quote:

---

In my eperience many ppl are depressed because they smoke dope, end of story. You know the type "the world is fucked because...."

---

-2b

I agree that with many people that can very well be the case, but it's up to the user to wake up and realise how to use a substance responsibly and know how far they can push it without it having a negative impact. My depression has nothing to do with cannabis use, I sometimes use cannabis because I am depressed. It can make me depressed to extents, but that also is on top of my already sober depression, but that's when you have to pull your head out and re-evalute the situation and why you are using the substance in the first place.

The world isn't such a bad place, though a hell of a lot of human beings are completely fucked and are taking the world with them. We have made the world revolve around greed and heavy profit, i can't see how you can pass this off as a disgruntled cannabis user view.

[ 09. December 2004, 06:45: Message edited by: gerbil ]

[simon_marklar]

 

quote:

---

 

Below is from a page hosted by UK Transport that has some very interesting refferances and excerpts.

 

 

"THC and it's metabolites can be present for weeks or even months in regular users, making determination of recency of use practically impossible. Aderjan (1998) reports a case of detection of cannabinoids after 11 weeks in a 10 year regular user. Blood and urine have received most extensive attention with respect to detection of cannabis consumption."

UK Transport

(link to said page with more interesting findings) [/QB]

---

you left ou tthe bit that applies to us:

"4.9.4 Saliva

Saliva samples may be a promising means for establishing presence of cannabinoids and recency of consumption. Little is known about the proportion of THC metabolites in saliva (Aderjan, 1998). It is however, clear that a high concentration of THC in saliva does not result from a transfer from the blood. The cannabinoids detected to date in saliva i.e. cannabidiol, THC, THC-COOH and 11-OH-THC, may result from the smoke of the marijuana or hashish or from a preliminary metabolism in the mouth (Schramm et al., 1992). Saliva sampling is relatively easy and non-invasive. It has the capacity to reduce the time frame of recent use from days to hours. Indeed, concentrations of more than 10µg/l THC are indicative of recent consumption (Huestis, 1996) and appear to correlate with subjective intoxication and heart rate changes (Menkes et al., 1991). It appears that, with one or two caveats, the use of saliva samples may be an area meriting further investigation for practical and scientific reasons. These caveats include (i) insufficient production of saliva during testing, and (ii) detection is greatest after initial smoking with residuals remaining in the mouth."

so it seems saliva testing would be quite ok for determining if you've just had a cone

and if you cant produce saliva, you have to have a blood test.

%simon

[2b]

Gomaos,

Your right on the money with the point about Tobacco + Cannabis .I was only able to brake from the addiction once i realised that it was the tobacco the i was more addicted to than the cannabis . Sounds stupid that it took me 20 years to work this out but i didn't really think i needed to change my lifestyle anyway. I was one of those people that was utterly adicted , would go crazy if i couldn't have a smoke.People say that it's only a psycological addiction , but let me assure you that the nicotine side of the equation is physical.I'm not fanatical against dope (had a smoke last night !though without the tobacco it just didn't cut it ? must say it has lost alot of appeal green.) but i have realised life is easier for me than it ever was, now i've tamed it. Alcohol , well i like to drink (2 cans , per man , per day ) but i just don't have the time to be hung-over anymore so i usally stop before i get to bad , but then it seems to be relevant to when you start to drink. Eg: if i open a beer around lunch time on a Saturday , that normally spells the begining of the end.

Gerbil:

No offence ment , by my statement but i still believe that if a person needed to smoke Cannabis to cope , they are the last person that should be smoking it. The fact that a person may need to depend on any substance just to cope tells me that there a problems that need to be fixed not covered over. If you change it around and look at it in the context of alchohol , if a person needed to drink to cope , then you would be classed an alcholic and drinking is not going to make it better.

Wise words of knowing when usage begins to have a negative effect , if only we all were as in tune with our selves , me included.

Gomaos , your right about cows and sugar !! I drove to Cairns a few weeks ago and wondered how a Cane grower makes money as i drove.I live and work in South Western Victoria, and even a shitty looking dairy has more going for it than most of the cane farms i passed .The wheat and sheep properties out here in the western district are in much better shape than any property i saw up north , and these guys complain down here!! i just was blown away by how much good land was covered in sugar , i mean lets face it north queensland has shitty soil and where ever it looked promissing it was full of sugar!!These growers seem to be living on nothing, gowing a crop that seems to worth nothing (unless it is heavily subsidised al-lah USA )then why bother ? i mean some of this land has to have a more productive use. As for cattle , i took a drive up as far as Mount Carbine on the Cape York development road and was suprised as to how shit the cattle looked , they looked like old Freishan heffas ! For beef cattle they looked in worse shape than a boney dairy cow . Now may-be it's dry up there , maybe a Brahma is just a boney beast, but there was a lot of land tied up making what i considered poor quality cattle . Dam , I wish we would get over our problems with eating kangaroo. I eat heaps of it , mainly because it's cheap. But it just makes so much more sense to farm roo's than cattle in country like this.

[Tryptameanie]

I know how to beat the tests- Just smoke a few more cones before hitting the road. Getting saliva out of you will be like getting blood out of a stone

[Tryptameanie]

 

quote:

---

a high concentration of THC in saliva does not result from a transfer from the blood. The cannabinoids detected to date in saliva i.e. cannabidiol, THC, THC-COOH and 11-OH-THC, may result from the smoke of the marijuana or hashish or from a preliminary metabolism in the mouth

---

Sounds like brushing your teeth after smoking and before driving is a good idea.

In response to Tort's defense of the ethical acceptability of these tests, I would say that a test that measures impairment, not the level of any particular substance, would be a much better option. A opiate-tolerant heroin user could be taking enough to kill half a dozen normal people and not be impaired, while if he was in withdrawal, he'd be highly dangerous...

Likewise, the person who'd had a smoke (or whatever) before getting a good nights sleep would be much less dangerous in the morning than someone who hadn't slept in 2 days despite being completely free of all drugs.

[gomaos]

plus secondary considerations:

If you get busted today for having cannabis in your blood, who's to say they don't turn up at your doorstep tomorrow looking for tha dope?

That's what makes the cannabis-test so different from the alc-test:

if you get caught drunk-driving, you pay your fine and that's it...

if they catch you while on cannabis, who knows what will happen?

btw a friend was asking who supplies the supplement that dries up one's spit (so spit-tests will fail)

(yes some ppl are getting very paranoid right now)

[AndyAmine.]

Gomaos, depending on the situation and where you are I dont think the mouth drying agents will help much, according to the VicGov ArriveAlive FAQ they will then be required to ask you for a blood test or urine sample.

(From the Arrivealive FAQ)

"13. What if I am unable to provide a saliva sample?

Drivers who are unable to supply a saliva sample will be required to supply a blood sample to test for the recent consumption of illicit drugs. Authorized health professionals will take blood samples. There is also a provision enabling police to take urine samples for testing."

http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_drugs_faq.html#13

But will they really ask everyone with a dry mouth for a blood test or urine sample, even the old and respectable?

There are lots of meds/things out there that can cause a dry mouth, anti-depressants,blood-pressure tabs, even coffee, not to mention a big scary cop/narc staring you down.

I hope this will only be the case in Vic because the NSW boys only carry portable units in their cars, would not be allowed to take blood and I haven't found anything that says NSW police will be taking urine samples but that's unconfirmed.

So, fingers crossed, when you cant provide a sample in NSW and depending on how you look (in which case they would take you to the nearest Dr./hospital) they may let you pass?

[mescalito]

If they were actually really concerned about road fatalities and gave a collective shit about us,then they might want to take a look the friggin ROADS for a start!!!

[nabraxas]

Eg: if i open a beer around lunch time on a Saturday , that normally spells the begining of the end.----LOL :D same for me & probably most here--

--damnit we'll have to work on that if we want to be taken seriously as 'stralians

[planthelper]

two days ago in the news, first road drug test culprit found innocent, the damm tester gave a wrong result!!

[Rev]

The litigation lawyers will be flocking to hime like flies to a turd

i hope he gets a mint for defamation