Do YOU know what to do in a radiological attack ?

[Torsten]

No? Neither do I. I presume it is a good idea to stay in an enclosed space for as long as possible so that some of the nasty stuff can blow away. other than that I am pretty stumped.

What I do know though is that the main cause of death after radioactive poisoning is throat/thyroid cancer. I also know that iodides are administered to counteract the radioactivity and dramatically reduce the number of deaths.

So I was a little amazed to find out that it took the Russians more than a week to get this common chemical to the population after Chernobyl. It is estimated that 80-90 of the non-immediate deaths could have been prevented if Potassium iodide was administered within 24 hours.

Then I also find out that potasisum iodide isn't commonly available anymore as it can be used in making speed.

I looked on-line and found that unscrupulous companies are making fuckloads of money by selling this cheap chemical at ridiculously high prices in tablet form. We're talking $50 for the first week, which is worth about 20cents in chemicals.

I don't have much faith in Australian guvvy organisational skills when under pressure or in an emergency. This is nothing unreasonable, but rather based on having lived in several countries and keeping an eye on international news.

So as far as I can see, I don't want to rely on a system I don't trust. The solution is clear (yes, in fact it is). It is colourless. "Colourless Iodine" in fact. You can walk into almost any chemist in australia and buy a bottle of colourless iodine off the shelf for about $5. As far as i remember they contain about 2 grams of Potassium iodide, some water and some alcohol. If evaporated at low temp you will get crystals of the fairly pure chemical. (Alternatively you could probably just use a few drops of the solution in an emergency).

The 2g will be enough for about 40 doses. As far as I can tell the dose is about 50mg per day, although i presume it should be a little higher on the first few days.

This means that one bottle will be enough for a family of four until the health department has got its shit together. It also means you can start dosing yourself without having to go to a hospital or chemist and thus risk further exposure.

I figured this is a simple and cheap solution that doesn't take much to prepare for and may save a few lives.

BTW, don't get the coloured iodine, as this contains free iodine and it will not evaporate well and will not be palatable.

Potassium iodide gives a very nasty chemical taste emenating from the mucous membranes. I was on it once for thyroid tests and it really messes with your appetite.

This advice may not be the healthiest, but we are talking about rather extreme and unlikely conditions. It's a back-up plan.

Anyone else got any 'practical' tips (besides the plastic sheet and duct tape )?

[Thelema]

Of course.

1)If you are not dead you probably soon will be unless you get FAR away from the centre of the radiological attack. Therefore DRIVE as far and as fast as you can into the centre of australia, OR near a desolate coastline (sea water dissipates radiological fallout)

2)Dont forget your K iodide.

3)Invest in a lead suit with breathing app. for all family members. These will be cumbersome at first but youll soon get used to them.

4)Remember the nuclear winter lasts for about 14months.Previously, hoard enough water and canned food, stored in a lead container to last you and you family for that long (eating and drinking through the lead suit may pose a problem...maybe someone should patent one with a double airlock chamber.)

5)Remember that the place will be crawling with radiological mutants, so take along a couple of shotguns, and maybe a machete, in case a hoard of them should try to come and eat your families brains one night

6)It might be good to obtain a geiger counter too. If you dont have one b4 the attack, dont worry, all the stores will be empty so just loot one from your local Dick Smith store.

7)A unique chance presents itself in the year of the aftermath to look for genetically altered plants. Remember that this is how they came up with PINK GRAPEFRUIT!

[theobromos]

I hate to pour a nice cooling torrent of liquid sodium on that one but the red grapefruit was discovered in Texas as a mutant (dare we say natural?) on pink grapefruit trees in 1929 according to :

http://www.texasweet.com/kids/history.html

[Auxin]

"I also know that iodides are administered to counteract the radioactivity"

Not counteract. Drown out. When you encounter radioactive iodine the more non-radioactive iodine you have in your body the less of the radioactive one will get used in the production of thyroxine. The less radioactive thyroxine you produce, the less thyroid cancer you get.

In short its not a cure, it just reduces the cancer rate due to one radioisotope. Its doesnt work against all radioisotopes like some KI sellers say.

I laugh at the people buying pills. I got 113.5 grams of pure KI for $3 (USD). And I got it years before the terrorism hysteria started.

[devance]

A fission or fusion reaction will produce many types of isotopes.

Some will wind up in bone,like strontium 90, because of chemical similaritys to calcium, some in the thyroid like radioactive iodine. Children are ten times more vulnerable to radioactivity than adults..

The first three days to three weeks the fallaout has skin penetrating power because of beta and gamma emmission. Like getting a Xray, after that the fallout doesn't penetrate the skin and just emites a larger particle alpha particle,which is stopped by a piece of paper,clothng or skin.

The beta and gamma radiation is like small very fast bullets whereas the alpha particle is like a slow cannon ball, it doesn't go far or fast or penetrates but does have a punch at point blank range, like in the lungs. which is the long term worry.

So you doen't want the dust in you or on you for at least three days and perferably three weeks.

After that you doen't want it in you in the form of breathing it or eating it because it will be in direct contact internally and can be incorporated in bone, etc..

A fogging mister type of water spray system would be idea to surround a house and knock down the fine dust. Some type of sticky flour or sugar solution to bind the dust from floating around is useful to. also a little detergent added wpuld be good for the water used to wash off a person.

But it defintely takes water for decontamination and at least a hand pump powered sprayer like is used for spraying plants.

The fallout occurs in a pencil shaped zone and by fleeing you don't know if you are cutting across one. So you need to check and if neceassary wash down frequently. Geiger counter time.

So a hand pump water sprayer and at least a water soaked hankerchief for the nose and mouth for air filtering breathing can prevent some long term problems.

The seacost is a alternative route as the water can be used for decontamination, also distilled, and the seafood eaten and few dust problems. Distillation of water can easily be done using a transparent plastic sheet in a tent above a black plastic sheet. Naturally the larger and more robust from tearing the better. This can also be used in the desert to aquire water. The black sheet heats the evaporating water which cools and condenses and slides to the edge of the transparent tent.

[ 11. May 2003, 10:36: Message edited by: devance ]

[mesq]

Very morbid

[woof woof woof]

When you know that your city is a target and know that one is on the way... consider a quick tan.

Didn't want to be too much of a pooper...., so here some helpfull information

http://www.oism.org/nwss/

[ 19. March 2003, 08:15: Message edited by: brian ]

[waterdragon]

not sure too many countries would want to waste a nuke on a sparsely populated country such as this, even though dubyas deputy is doing his utmost to make us a target. i'd expect north korea to be seriously considering the lobbing of nukes onto the u.s coastline because now that the world has no need of legal processes it seems to be 'first in-best dressed', i mean they have been labelled as evil along with iran who must be questioning the merits of a first strike policy as well.

[Torsten]

I wasn't actually thinking of nuclear bombs, but rather dirty bombs. Is KI useful in this case?

I think were still a few years off havign to worry about full nuclear bombs... except if you live in India or Pakistan.

I am not too interested in living through a nuclear winter. I was more interested in the practical applications we might need in australia seeing we are an easy target.

[Auxin]

"dirty bombs. Is KI useful in this case?"

Depends on what radioisotope is used. Since in such an attack you probably wouldnt know KI would be a good thing to have on hand, just dont get over confident.

[nabraxas]

damn, i dug this up for you

http://www.cybertrn.demon.co.uk/atomic/main.htm

looking at it was 1 big depressive flashback.

the film ov the raymond briggs book "Gone with the Wind" is just as usefull & depressing.

[devance]

A dirty bomb would just contaminate a small area. The radioactivity wouldn't decrease in time and the emissions would always be the high energy skin penetratng type.

Basically use a filter to breathe and move to water for decontamination and to get out of the area. Have a geiger counter to see if you are even at risk if not, stay put until the authorities figure out the zone of contamnation so you can advoid it..

Using food oil like olive oil on some fabric provides a particle trapping surface. Naturally more fibers mean more filtering.

Anything which knocks dust out of the air is good such as electrostatic dust/allergy gadgets, hepa filters, before you breathe it is good.

Using a filtered source of air you can use positive air pressure within a house so all air goes out and only filtered air comes in. Thats only if you have electricity, which might mean a small hundred buck generator.

Basically like sterile lab techniques for a airborn infectious agent, only applied to dust. If the dust settles down to embed and get sheilded by dirt or blows away and dissapates, less of a problem.

[peas-pipe]

What if I can't afford a geiger counter, would a Canary do? Serious question, not that I'd sacrifice a canary like that, I'm just wondering.

[occidentalis]

nabraxas - do you mean "Where the Wind Blows" ?

peas pipe - the canaries are all going to die anyway. The only difference will be that it will die at your house instead of the pet shop.

[devance]

peas-pipe:

What if I can't afford a geiger counter, would a Canary do?  Serious question, not that I'd sacrifice a canary like that, I'm just wondering.

A canary is a very sensitive. Any type of nerve gas or radiation will turn up a died canary at 20 times less of a level than will affect you.

[ 20. March 2003, 12:36: Message edited by: devance ]

[nabraxas]

creach- oops- :confused: my mistake

i meant "when the wind blows"- don't know what i was thinking ov

anyway briggs's "the tin-pot foreign general and the old iron woman" is another excellent antiwar picture book.

[ 21. March 2003, 06:58: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[Noveltea]

Do what all sensible people do,

"DUCK AND COVER"

sorry, i couldnt resist;)

[Auxin]

Better still, 'stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye'. Its a time honored tradition

[silent_bob84au]

just if yas are interested, nuclear weaponry has been a fascination of mine for years.

ok the average bomb going off would wipe out approx 30 square km.

being within this blast area would hit you with upto 3000 - 4000 rads

but, evn if the human body is hit with 1500 rads, it is possible to survive, as long as you move as far away as possible as quickly as possible,

heres an example i read not long ago.

a man hit with 800 rads and stays where he is has an 15% chance of survival.

although the same man hit with 800 rads but moves away fromt he blast, dropping the amount of rads he is hit with by 20 per day has an 60% chance of survival.

again the man is hit with 800 rads, but straight away he moves to an area with under 100 rads and stays there, he has an 85% chance of survival.

pretty amazing. also the thyroids are the worry, but if ya read into it, its essentialy on females susceptable to thyroid cancer lol

anyways just thought id leave this for ya consideration.