Pealed Cacti Skins = TRICH Sp. ILLEGAL

[Flip]

I know that this has been mentioned in other threads.

But I think it would be profitable to seed a thread here as well.

Regarding, the vender sale of pealed cacti and other processed cacti products

That are not only illegal in many nations under different assorted laws,

but also fueling the descruction of wild populations for short term gain.

If it continues, it'll be forcing the various drug agencies to act

and start enforcement of the laws of schedualed substances.

Leading to the illegalization of such cacti species

that we're interested in preserving as safe and legal.

That means no more gardens for anyone.

Think about this....

I've been advocating that such vendors be contacted

by as many people as possaible to let them know that they're

going to be losing business if they continue to offer any cactus product.

IF they lose money in a boycot we'll be controling a situation

that shouldn't have started in the first place.

whats your imput.

[ 19. June 2005, 22:37: Message edited by: Flip ]

[gusto]

Yep, I'm afraid there are plenty of short sighted bozos to maintain the trade though, both on the supply and demand side.

Hopefully, if enough customers make clear to the vendors, that they will boycott ALL products from any vendor that offers the dried flesh, some will take notice.

I doubt the ethical argument carries much weight with most vendors, but if we can hit 'em in the pocketbook, maybe, just maybe.

[Torsten]

actaully, you will find most vendors are quite ethical, but those with the latest and greatest products get all the customers, so many don't have much of a choice but to go along with silly things. It doesn't however take much to dissuade them in many cases. Reminding them of ethics is usually enough without even threatening them. But yeah, cactus juice/oil/skins should really not be on the open market.

[teonanacatl]

what do they do with the left over white flesh they cut away???

[gusto]

teonanacatl:

what do they do with the left over white flesh they cut away???

One man's trash is another man's treasure, eh Teo. :D

[Gunter]

The white inner part is active, arguably the harvesting practice they are engaging in is unethical for that reason regardless of environmental impact. I am not sure… but it is a point that could be addressed.

Maybe the retailers/harvesters do not realize that their trade actually jeopardizes the future of their ability to engage in that sort of business. If they try to stick with seeds and cuttings they are much less likely to incriminate their own clients and lose business in the long run.

Though some of the people harvesting are ethical in regards to their impact on the populations (not all of them are) both the example they set, and the repercussions their trade is having will lead to severe future consequences that will not only lead to criminalization, but the further endangerment of the populations they have taken care to "ethically" harvest.

It’s a shame, too bad hindsight is always 20/20, it might take tragedy for some too see this more clearly.

[Flip]

I believe that both the carrot and the stick are great approaches to use.

The positive (Carrot).

The continuation of their online business, funneling of more

clients to their site due to their ethical conduct

and avoiding costly legal hassles that could land them

and their customers in jail.

The negative (Stick):

Loss of clients to other "ethical vendors",

Loss of Money, Legal Ramifications (Prison terms),

Long term loss of customer base, loss of entire business

(illegality of cacti and other "carriers" lost due new enforcement laws).

Ethical concerns extinction, over harvesting

and loss of wild strains... etc.

Aside from the odd bozo that doesn't yet get the message...

I honestly believe that we can have a great effect upon the

entire botanical industry if we spread the word and make

reasoned arguments that are focused on keeping people out of jail.

I think that the most selfish people will perk up at that angle

verses any "warm and fuzzy ethical tree hugging" arguments.

At this point we need to get threads started on every forum

and news group we can to bring the extent of the risks involved

to those that are likely to order any processed cacti product.

While at the same time offer the option of live cuttings

and seeds as a safe(er) and "legal" alternative.

so that people can understand that they don't have to go without.

just that they have to be somewhat smart and take the time to do things right.

This situation should have never arisen in the first place

and it has to be corrected ASAP

I've already had people inform me of confiscations

They will not start enforcing cacti chips illegality

but illegality of the entire Trichocereus genus of plants.

[ 20. June 2005, 09:00: Message edited by: Flip ]

[devils_cactus]

I vote guerilla action...

at night of course

[Flip]

I think that it's a case of "whatever it takes"

but lets start with the nicer stuff first.

[Rev]

Well i figure some solidarity is useful internationally but its already quite illegal here

and anyone importing such herb would be foolish

[Flip]

Yeah, WE KNOW that but the problem is that some bozo's out there

Don't and think, and that if it's for sale like hausca vine or roots

"it must be OK"

after all it's billed as "incense"...

Now, the thought can extend to all leaves, extract etc.

but I honestly fear the repercussions of the pealed skins

and the potential for outlawing the cacti as well as all the

ethical concerns already mentioned.

[strangebrew]

http://www.salvialight.com/trichocereus_pachanoi.htm

Can anyone in the good ol' USA comment on what's going on with the disclaimer about the cactus not being for sale due to questions of legality?

I presume they're talking about cuttings etc.?

[ 21. June 2005, 15:38: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

[Salvi]

It looks like they're just talking about the dried skin..

[Flip]

The site mentioned above

has some translation issues with it's wording.

Progress is being made.

Many sites, that have offered cacti peelings have withdrawn them from market.

While leaving both seeds and Live cuttings up for legit sale.

Thats really cool... THANK YOU!

I've searched around for a few hours and had a hard time finding those that may be still selling.

If anyone knows of one please PM me

and e-mail them requesting that they stop.

It's all going well, except for one peruvian site that also offers

"Cacti Extract" by the botted "dose", cacti powder by the bag

and even bottled Ayahausca.

It would be a great time to let them know that they should

pull those items.

Or make it clear on their site that they're not going to send

them to nations that are pushing the "drug war"...

or any wars for that matter...

That is, if you know the site I'm talking about. (hint)

[ 23. June 2005, 01:13: Message edited by: Flip ]

[Flip]

I've gotten a few replies from different vendors

and they make a valid point about the sales being legal within their own nations

and would like to continue to serve their fellow citizens

(alright it's a bit pricey and listed in USD currencies on their website... but whatever)

I have a certain canadian vendor that has floated the idea of

restricting sales of peelings away from nations where it might cause problems. (namely the USA)

What does the Aussie community say about having peelings shipments

not being sent down to AUS in addition to the USA?

I feel that the USA is the primary, not only because I live there,

they're also the most uptight about such things with heavy laws.

and they tend to bully other nations into complying with it's laws.

Do you guys and gals feel that your government isn't going to care

about peelings or make the distinction between those

and the live plants/seeds. if it does move towards legalization?

It seems that they outlawed kratom plants as well as the powder

that people were using for making tea.

Aside from all the environmental issue already mentioned.

Thoughts?

[ 24. June 2005, 06:18: Message edited by: Flip ]

[Salvi]

That seems like a good idea Flip. I mean, if say in Canada, they were only selling peels to Canadians, it probably won't get much attention from other countries..although when it comes to the U.S. government I wouldn't put it past them to bully them into criminalization.

[strangebrew]

Well it's illegal here anyway isn't it? So I'm happy to see Australia go on the banned list, besides the government here is worse than America in regards to these things at the moment.

Nice work Flip!

[AndyAmine.]

Boy, I wish we had access to places over the border that had such liberal laws like like you guys do with Canada and Mexico, one of the probelms with being an Island I guess.

Having somewhere like that to go to for a while (or to live) and do what you like without persecution (within reason) would be so refreshing!