begginings with sceletium

[JumpedAngel]

In the past I've owned some peyote and san pedro, I loved my peyote too much to eat him, he was large and valuable back in those days when you could still buy it at Gardenworld, and he dissapeared one day when I went away on holidays.

San Pedro is still easy to get around here, I only tried to eat it once and found the effects to be very mild and the flavour totally disgusting (this obviously would benefit from some form of treatment).

Yesterday, while cruising through my favorite trash and treasure market I spotted at least a dozen large plants which I took to be sceletium, not being any sort of expert I bought a couple (only difference appears to be the colour of the flower), I was about to giv'em the "Planthelper" fermentation treatment when I noticed a heap of pods, old and new and then decided to hold off until.

1) I can confirm that they are of a type which will be of some use when exposed to fermentation treatment (i.d. please ed).

2) Confirm weather to hold off until all the immature pods dry out (if they are usefull)

As I don't actually own any webspace real-estate of my own I cannot give a UBB code link to an image other than an index page where I have placed a link to some photos (free webspace has its limitations)(look for the sceletium link), so if you have the time then please let me know your thoughts to the above points. :confused:

P.S. Please dont take the web page too seriously as it still hasn't decided what it wants to become.

[Ed Dunkel]

I can send you a handful of cutting material (Ed strain) if you'd like?

Maybe check out and trade one of yours

PM me.

[mescalito]

Aptenia cordifolia Aha....I was going to ask sooner or later!

How does this plant compare with sceletium?

[JumpedAngel]

Thanx for the excellent response guys, I guess I will have to try the fermentation treatment and see, look for an update in 2 weeks or so, I'd be happy to swap cuttings etc, and will do some PM's later today, I must say, It freaks me out a bit to think of sending things like this through the mail, any suggestions ?.

For the local guys, it might be easier to score your own, as I said in the earlier note "they abound at the trash and treasure market", $6 bought 1 by 6inch pot so overflowing that you couldn't fit it into a shopping bag (thats at Wantirna)

[JumpedAngel]

Common as muck.

Found some yellow flowered ones yesterday.

Began fermentation on the reds.

[JumpedAngel]

Quote from someplace else....

 

quote:

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The red sceletium muck has finally dried, and I hope to get the gnome to test it for me, the pink and yellow scelitium muck has not dried yet, and the pink sceletium cuttings are not showing signs of rooting yet (too cold i think), I can now see why Mr Planthelper prepares it by the bucketload as the quantity is dissapointing, the pink and yellow will only end up providing test samples I think. I will revisit and update the thead "beggining with sceletium" once the gnome has had the opportunity to find his way around some of this stuff, don't hold your breath, he still hasn't looked up ssri, he has been very bussy looking at software (aspen,lisp)

 

As you may know, the gnome recently (2 months) gave up tobacco after approx 35 years with the aid of pituri, ..... , interestingly, the tobacco addiction is now gone, this is made amply obvious when he comes in contact with second hand tobacco smoke, the smoking addiction is still there and when the pituri ran out he went straight on with a convolvulus erubescens or convolvulus sabatius or something that looks like that, the bush medecine book calls it beach convulvus or tropical speedwell, apparently there are about 9 varieties at one of the local mountain ranges (grampians) there is a big patch of it in the back yard.

 

The smoking habit is now far reduced, and the main reason it is maintained at all is to force the gnome away from the computer at least once every 4 or 5 hours, whoever thought smoking might actually be good for you?. Because the speedwell stuff is at least mildly narcotic (with the occassional spinout), the gnome expects to find difficulty in determining the effect of the red sceletium for now, and may be forced down the road for a snort of the snuff, but its still very much early days and I think he may want the pink and yellow stuff on hand as well for a comparison. .....

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[JumpedAngel]

Picture updates only, report coming soon...

[mescalito]

Yep I have heaps of the first one for sure.

Have you tried fermenting this yet Angel?

I used one of my 'forget teks' and ended up with a slurry that smelled like cured meat with a dash of algae :D

Any way after drying it,I put some in with tobacco and smoked it through a wp with a definite effect and not a bad taste.Whether I liked it or not is prolly the reason I haven't repeated the experiment thus far.Though this may be like my sensitivity to SSRI's,which sounds promising for those who can use it.

[JumpedAngel]

The gnome gnose

OK, this should only be considered as an initial impression from a gnome who hasn't fooled around with ssri's before and who hasn't needed to, a more comprehensive assesment may come later, dunno?.

Red, Pink and Yellow flowering varieties of sceletium succulent matter was bacterially digested or fermented in the traditional local manner, ie. in limited oxygen, inside of a zip-loc bag and under the action of native airborne species of aerobactor type yeast/bacteria/fungus.

The gnome was fortunate to have recieved a sample of sceletium powder to use as a standard from "Herbalistics" (thanks Darcy), as best as the gnome was able to tell, this is a comercial blend of Sceletium and Justicia plants meant to give a synargistic effect, it is called Buzz Powder. :D

Buzz Powder doesn't make any grandiose promises, only that it gives a stimulating effect if taken as a snuff. other sources, such the Maya web site suggest it could be smoked in the company of mary j with synargistic effects and still further, family related sources have suggested this plant was administed orally by an S.African San shamman to cure a last gasp flavour of cancer of the everything. It was therefore expected that the substance would be smokable, however, only nominal effects were observed from smoking the Red and the Buzz Powder on seperate occassions so that theory and experiment were discontinued.

Two small lines were cut of the pink powder and snorted, immediate and intense stimulation followed, much like chlorine, and definietly remenisant of the gnomes upsa-daisy-um days, complete with the acrid after taste at the back of the throat and the impudent runny gnose.

Similar experiences were noted in the following days with the yellow powder and the Buzz powder with at least one day of rest in between each trial, then the whole thing was repeated for all except the red variety, with all three, ie. the buzz, the pink and the yellow, each was snorted at least twice. The noted symptoms apart from the nasal irritation where a mild stimulant effect which was generally felt up to 6 hours and an intense sinus pain which lasted just as long, the pain was felt particularly along the left sinus, behind the left eye and behind the frontal lobe, although by the last trial the pains had much reduced in intensity as if some kind of tolerance level was coming down. The last trial made was on the red powder, and in this case, no effects were felt except nominal and a mild/medium case of sinus pain, it is therefore considered unproductive to continue snorting the red powder, otherwise, snorting trials will continue as the opportunity arises.

It is hoped to try out the powders in tea as has been suggested in various bits of literature around the place, and this may happen during the next few weeks, then later combined with a number of possible synargins, but try to understand, it is now formally shroom season and the gnome is adamant about not mixing up his priorities or his trials.

Hey mesc, it is supposed to smell and taste like shit anyway, after all that's what it is, it is the shit of some toxic little bug in the same family as the typhus bug and other nasty beasties, not quite sure if animal or veg. but have been using this same fermentaion technology for many years to make chelating agent (butyric acid) with acetone as a bi-product from molassas. That stuff Darcy mixes with it makes it smell less like shit but it is still shit. The gnomes final word is cautiously reserved for a more definative future but for the moment he says that he never expected to find these sorts of effects outside of the ephedra family, otherwise, the pink and yellow powder compare favourably to the comercial buzz powder, and only further research will determine the best blend.

[Humanfuel]

While taking a walk to drop of some trash in the bins this morning.... I stumbled apon some thick ground covering succulent very similar to the red/pink var in the pics (above)..... and I was wondering if your Gnome has done any further investigation into the plant properties....

....What is the fermetation process ????

[Fenris]

Does anyone know if Pigface (Capobrotus spp) would contain mesembrine. It looks like the big daddy of Sceletium and grows fairly rampantly in certain areas around here. Could it be used as a substitute, has anyone tried? Should anyone try.

[Absinthe]

I've wondered this as well. Do a search on these forums, and you find that someone (who?) tried a rough extraction and got a yellow oil, but never bioassayed. I think maybe there is promise in them, maybe you could be the first...

Jon

[Ed Dunkel]

I don't know about the Australian cousins C. modestus, rossii, etc..) but there has been found some in the South African one(s):

Mesembs reported to contain mesembrine alkaloids:

Carpobrotus acinaciformis (L.) L.Bol.

Carpobrotus edulis (L.) L.Bol. (unconfirmed)

(http://trout.yage.net/sc/SoS_2004_Trout.pdf)

and also a flimsy page (http://www.rumbalara-e.schools.nsw.edu.au/bushtucker/Carpobrotus_glaucescens1.htm)

You should have some escaped South African carpobrotus weeds in WA, you might be lucky.

I do wonder about the levels of mesembrine and levels of any oxalic acid? It might not be worth it!???

If you have the means to check it. please do so and report back.

Good luck.

E D

[smogs]

i have heard (cant remember where from so reliability is crap) but anyways that there is a SMALL amount in fruit but to get any effect you would have to eat a shitoad... more than is physically possible

[JumpedAngel]

Hey Ed, many thanks for the cuttings, will pm you soon.

Hum. - There are many variations on fermentation, you can ferment the same thing in different ways to end up with different products, grapes is an easy one, ferment it in air and you get vinegar, ferment without air and you get wine, with molasses, ferment it in air and you get rust converter (butyric acid and acetone), ferment without air and you get rum. This explanation is a little over simplified but you might be getting the idea now.

The other variable is the type of bacteria used to digest the starting materials, with the above procedures reying mostly on native or wild bacteria present on the starting material or in the air (aerobactors). Other fermentations can rely on specially bred bacteria such as for champagne making.

Scelentium fermentation is a technique borrowed from the San tribsmen of S Africa (I think), originally the plant was bruised and sewn up inside a pigs bladder or some such thing restricting the access to oxygen, nowadays we simply crush and bruise the plant matter and stick it inside of a zip lock bag with a little air.

Fermentation proceeds as a result of the wild bacteria present inside the bag, the bag is opened regularly (once every day or so) to allow the beast a little more oxygen, otherwise it may die and putrify. The bag is left in a warm place (the window sill or inside the car) to give it the heat it needs for optimum conversion.

The stuff is then placed on a tray or plate to dry in a shady place, and when it has dried it can be ground in a coffe grinder to a fine powder for use as a snuff or snort.

I have found that many people ask questions about this type of fermentation as it is unfamiliar to them but if you do a search on the web or on this site you will find many interesting fermentation topics.