Torsten Posted July 12, 2003 This is a topic discussed at the end of another thread and also at EA forums, with little concrete and helpful advice being offered to those people who find themselves in a sticky situation. There are at least two levels of illegality you have to concern yourself with when importing seed. Firstly there is the quarantine level. All seeds fall into 4 categories. 1) Native (permitted) 2) Assessed to be of low risk to environment or commerce (permitted) 3) Assessed to be of high risk to environment or commerce (prohibited) 4) Not assessed (prohibited until assessement is done - cost $65) Any non-commercial seedlots (ie less than 100g each and not addressed to a business) will be allowed into australia if they are on the permitted list as long as they conform with certain seed cleanliness standards. All prohibited seed is given the option of return to sender or destruction. The second level you have to worry about it the customs level. Not many seeds fall into this category, but the number is increasing rapidly. Usually seeds containing prohibited drugs are listed here, but it may also be seeds that contain poisons, or seeds that can be used to grow a drug. Argyreia nervosa and Anandenanthera peregrina seed fall into the category of containing a prohibited drug. Hence, once quarantine clears it, it will be passed to customs who may then proceed further. Things have been changing rapidly in the enforcement community too. For example, a few years ago I imported a seed that contained a prohibited drug. It was also not permitted by quarantine. When I enquired about the process of clearing it for quarantine import, I was told that they would likely do so, but that they would then pass it onto customs and they may the prosecute me. I asked for my options and one of these was to simply not apply for quarantine clearance which would see AQIS destroying the seed after a month and hence no customs trouble. But then a few months ago I imported some Convolvulus species not thinking anything of it. Next thing I got a letter from customs informing me that I had now breached the same law twice (LSA containing seed) and that they would prosecute if I don't have a good explanation. Turns out that a quarantine officer thought the seeds looked like Ipomoea violacea and passed them directly to customs for further action.(The end of this story is complex so I won't tell it here). Anyway, the point is that AQIS and customs work together a lot more than they used to. There is a customs list of prohibited seeds, but it is only about 10 species. Fact is the list now comprises several hundred species, but it is not published. I don't know how they maintain this list and what sort of legal teeth it has, but things are definitely getting worse. Recently I got busted by customs importing some ephedra seeds. The species was quarantine permitted, but customs confiscated it with the reason that "ephedra seeds are the seed for ephedra plant which contains ephedrine" (ephedrine is customs prohibited). This is a dangerous and ominous sign of things to come. It is the first time (I know of) that a non-customs listed species seed was prohibited entry on the basis of what it may produce when it is germinated, rather than what it contains as a seed itself. Hence I believe that Trichocereus seeds which are currently legal will soon become illegal, etc etc. Back to the problems at hand though. The unidentified "hawian baby woodrose" [sic] is best left with Aqis who will destroy them in 30 days. In this case the spelling mistake probably saved someone's ass as the species would not show up on the ICON database. The "peruvian torch" seed would be legal to import, however in this case it may be best to let sleeping dogs lie. The Anadenanthera seed would be legal if it is colubrina, but very illegal if it is peregrina. I don't remember if this was confiscated by quarantine or customs. If the former then prolly best to forget about it. If it is in customs then play stupid - after all they only have your best interest at heart The customs unit dealing with this shit is called 'community protection unit'. What a laugh.... considering how dumb the people in that place are I wonder who needs to be protected from who? As for penalties..... a quarantine offence used to be a maximum of $2,000 per offence. I believe this has now gone up to $65,000 in the last year or two. Obviously this large amount is reserved for commercial operations and repeat offenders. Someone with little knowledge of the process also claims that customs and/or quarantine use herbarium records for assessing imports. The enforcement officers at AQIS use the ICON database exclusively. They have no botanical training at all and most wouldn't know what a herbarium is or what significance it has. Any matter that is too technical for them is passed to the 'nursery stock' division... in most cases all the way to canberra. This is also where all the assessments are done that go into the ICON database. This Canberra unit is staffed with scientists from many fields and they competently assess information from many records (including herbarium records). The customs side of things is different again. They are really dumb at the phone clerk level. Anything to do with drugs and prohibited seeds/plants is referred to our favorite people at the TGA for assessment. If you want to import something and customs doesn't know if it is allowed or not then they have to ask the TGA. The TGA has the final say!! In fact, sometimes the customs guys get so confused that they put me straight through to the TGA to deal with the directly. I don't think there are many people involved in this process at the TGA as I always seem to get referred to the same guy. The TGA guy appears to have some sound scientific basis, but is definitely not a botanist. The TGA is an undemocratic body that is very difficult to challenge and that has little accountability. Any questions? [ 12. July 2003, 01:38: Message edited by: Torsten ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted July 12, 2003 Yeah I have a question. Just wondering if a change of government would make any difference in the future? In my opinion the Australian Customs has always been one of the fuzziest in the World and is really annoying. I'd like most of them to get the sack for being such idiots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr b.caapi Posted July 12, 2003 why is a.peregrina prohibited and not a.colubrina? is it that peregrina is the more known of the two? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted July 12, 2003 A. peregrina, may have higher concentrations of goodies? J. Ott paper on bufotenine gave a brief rundown of both seeds, and concentrations of DMT, 5-Meo-DMT and Bufotenine. Will read it later and see if peregrina has higher concentrations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plantsoma Posted July 13, 2003 Shit! So can we look forward to native Acacia plants becoming restricted on the basis of what they may produce when germinated? Hopefully, there will be a revolt before that day comes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted July 13, 2003 From that paper, A. colubrina seeds had higher concentrations of Bufotenine, though A. peregrina still had high amounts. A. peregrina was shown to have higher levels of DMT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 14, 2003 Customs is concerned about DMT, hence the prohibition of peregrina. Yes, I feel that soon any seed such as acacias and MANY others will become illegal imports. It will require a 'test case' before the court to establish whether the random prohibition enforced by customs is actually legal. No, I don't think a change in government will change muhc in relation to customs and TGA. The TGA needs to be fully restructured and made accountable (not just to corrupt ministers either). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted July 15, 2003 confiscation of seeds under the reason that the plant they produce contains a prohibited drug is DEFINITElY NOT valid legally, as long as the seed itself contains no trace of the prohibited drug. For the same reason, trading in mushroom spores are legal in all australian states that I know of. They cant BUST you for importing a prohibited drug if you havent imported any prohibited drug, it's as simple as that. But its not so simple to get the arbitrary assh*les to agree with you. I find it amazing that this happened to you, T. If it was a lot of $ you were talking about losing, then I would say get the solicitors to harangue the bastards. But if its expendable.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 15, 2003 Thelema - I agree with you that this is probably NOT a legal process used by customs. I hesitate to take it to court for a couple of reasons. Firstly I don't have the time to fight a willy nilly courtcase right now, and secondly I would hate to wise them up to the fact and allow them to edit their legislation for the future. I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to get this passed if they tried. Anyway, many such things simply need the nod from the attourney general and they have what they want. I'll keep the legal option open for when I have no other choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
