psychedelics and mental health

[woof woof woof]

Anxiety - i think that you can learn to get over it and control it. I think valium is not a good way of controling it - due to the dependancy that comes with it.

I mean,... think of this,... Why wouldn't it be possible to just for a moment while having a Anx Attck to think to relax to rationalize.

I think using relaxants makes us lazy with dealing with the problem.

it is a skill that can be learned.

The only reason you can not learn it is if your brain does not have enough buffers. So i.o.w the right amount of recepors at the right place and the ability to produce & relaese / inhibit the required Ntransmittors. Maybe I left some things out but you get the picture. If you do ont have a real brain impairment then you can learn to activate the pathways that are latent.

I think relearning to activate certain pathways is not easy and commes with feeling very shitty.

An example is,... kicking drug dependance. like a heroin addict going cold turky. growing pains....

It's about getting your brain on track again.

Whatever caused that trauma of yours that makes you lose trust in people - hmmm all I am going to say is,... what you give is what you get - therein lies the answer. and it is not nececarely all your fault,..... hmmmm you did mention that it runs in the family,..... bad karma to clear up is your mission in life,... Not Amsterdam MJ and shroomies.

[Amulte]

Death is life's greatest reward for living. Everyone is different. especially with mental conditions. they will try to put us all in one basket only to impose what they think is best for you. WTF Brian?

Alien you already know the answer to your question, you just havn't found it yet. It is one of the best things to talk to other people to hear their opinion, but an opinion is raely advice.

you either live one day at a time or know where your going. that is bull, most people are black or white, they see no room for a grey and thats where comfort is. its a harmonious blend between the two. people have told me that these drug will fuck me up or kill me. maybe my Borderline PD makes me self destructive but i tried it anyway. i study the small dose's, then quarter it. see what happenes (mostly nothing) then work up slowly. im not telling you to do this nor do i recomend it. but i lernt myself and what i can and cant dig.

also never go it alone man. if it weren't for my girl then fuck knows where i would be. but even the x-girls, you can learn somthing from everyone and take it with you, but dont use it fully. change it to suit you if you feel its in you, if not then chuk it.

Well it looks like i have talked myself into a deep, deep, confusion. got too deep for myself there.

You knew your answer before you posted dude. its in you man, but be careful in life in general. not because you suffer an affliction, but because lust for life is truely the greatest. the song by iggy pop rocks aswell.

[ 28. March 2005, 16:31: Message edited by: Amulte ]

[Darklight]

brian:

Anxiety - i think that you can learn to get over it and control it.... Why wouldn't it be possible to just for a moment while having a  Anx Attck to think to relax to rationalize....

I think using relaxants makes us lazy with dealing with the problem...

it is a skill that can be learned.

Mmm, I don't agree with you there cob, having had a close friend suffer from paralysing anx attacks for several years before she sought treatment, getting into the habit of taking time out during one can be a physical impossibility for some to start with.

She overcame it by seeing a *good* psych- and she did have to shop around ( thankfully we still have a right to do this under our health care system ) who got her to use a combination of medication and behavioural therapy to treat it.

From memory the hardest part ( after getting over the anx of deciding to leave the house to seek treatment ) was finding someone sympathetic who didn't necessarily want her on medication the rest of her life and was prepared to follow and review her progress.

Yes you can learn how to deal with anx attacks- but sometimes ppl need to buy the space to do that, and here appropriate meds can help under skillful supervision. There are also good support groups around, especially if you are living in an urban area

IMO, and this might sound harsh, but if you have enough on your plate dealing with debilitating psychological conditions, I'd steer well clear of high dose *anything*, and if you insist on taking any kind of recreational substance ( incl alcohol and caffeine ) I'd ramp the doses upwards very carefully and slowly- especially if you're taking other medication.

It's not just the duration or intensity of the experience that can be an issue, it's the things that can come up during the experience, be they practical or psychological, and any comedown emotional drain afterwards also needs to be factored. Everyone needs to consider this as a part of an overall experience package, but for people who aren't functioning as well as they'd like to be the results can have more serious consequences.

Having said that, there are heaps of people here who have direct and first hand knowledge of this issue and I concede to their more personal and probably relevant knowledge and experience.

edit: ah yeah, and I really like what Amulte said above

[ 28. March 2005, 10:00: Message edited by: Darklight ]

[incognito]

i personally think hydro sucks hairy goats asses.. taking in all that hydroponic fertiliser just aint good for u...recently my partner and i had a baby, and at the antenatal classes the teacher spoke of the high rate of deformiities arising from women smoking hydroponic dope during pregnancies.with my town here being a big hydro smokin' town ,babies are being born left right and centre with extra didgets, cleft pallets etc etc,,and u wouldnt believe the statistics of those children being born to mothers who are chronic hyge smokers,,,personally the experience with this has sworn me of hydge for life..elnatrale for me only!!!!

[Amulte]

ROFLMAO

Jonno - there are two type of hydro, one is ther REAL hydro by deffinition and that alone, which is a technique of growing plants (without soil) in water containing dissolved nutrients. these nutrients are fed to the plant at natural levels.

the second is the nasty one where ive heard of people feeding them tropane and all sort of nasty shit. i think the main prob is the genetically enginerred strains

Also from my extensive time working in hospitals over the years i have never heard of such a thing, i think maybe the teacher was just trying to use scare tactics to stop people from doing drugs while pregnant. eg, toad venom makes your balls fall off. as for your local town babies are being born left right and centre with missing digits, in the ONE town, id imagine that ACA or someone else of the like would jump all over it. it may be happening but it doesn't mean it could be attributed to hydro consumption. eg it has been noted that 4 generation inbreeding has been inadvertently taking place in small town in australia. catalyst a few years ago, a small australia country town. and deformation were poping up let right and centre.

Maybe just coinsidence but i think the teacher was doing the whole scare tactics.

but yes, it is VERY bad to do ANY DRUG WHILE PREGNANT/BREASTFEEDING.

i might also add that the only proven debility caused by weed is asthma! and yes that ONE is proven. but again i stress it is VERY bad to do ANY DRUG WHILE PREGNANT/BREASTFEEDING.

EDIT :- Do NOT spread propoganda about anything!

[ 28. March 2005, 12:25: Message edited by: Amulte ]

[alien]

I agree it probably is propaganda. I also agree drugs shouldnt be used while pregnant hey.

Take care

[incognito]

hmmmm, friend of mine had a child with a cleft pallet,,,she went to sydney to have it corrected and for genetic counselling???(for her future children,think thats wot its called) and guess wot ,5 of 6 of the oither mothers of the other children getting corrective surgery all smoked dope while pregnant....coincidence???

p.s not spreading propaganda,thought this was a forem where u could share ur views???did i ever say i was right???

[Amulte]

appoligises but i does some like propoganda considering the source(i mean the teacher, not you man). it was wrong of me to impose that upon you and im sorry.

now as for the cleft pallet, thaqt also has been recorded in 8/10 tobacco births. i think the cause there would be (hypothetically) the nicotine. unless ofcourse all the mothers you know never used tobacco with the weed or at all during their pregncy or even around the second hald smoke of tobacco. but i think that would explain it as cleft pallets in birth is just one of the deformities that nicotine can produce on a devolping fetus.

sorry all that we got off topic for a bit, but the bottom line is DO NOT DO DRUGS WHILE PREGNANT OR BREASTFEEDING. and i think we can all agree on that one eh.

Sorry again jono and everyone. peace be da journey.

[SunChaser]

By the way if you take any hallucinogen shrooms, acid, or whatever and your paranoid that your going to flip out you are setting your self up to flip out.

When I’ve nearly flipped out on large amounts of LSD I just remind myself it’s just a drug and that people have probably taken a lot more and have been fine. That makes my trip turn back to good straight away.

Most people I’ve seen flip have been peaking about the effects before they have taken the stuff.

Take it with are grain of salt or don’t do it at all that’s my advice with any hallucinogen.

[alien]

I think there is some confusion with what I was saying. I dont smoke pot, i havent in years. My paranoia gets worse if I smoke it but i dont believe it caused it. I am getting treatment, I see a psychatrist once a week. I do stick with my meds. Believe me, I have been on so many different antipsychotics. NOTHING WORKS! Ive been on the typicals, the atypicals. Id NEVER EVER go back on the typicals again. Ive been on seventeen antidepressants, a few mood stabalisers, shit loads of benzo's. Seriously I have been on so many drugs its not funny. I dont like having a pseudo-parkinson's disease syndrome that the typical antipsychotics give you. Id rather be paranoid than be a vegetable.

I am "treatment resistant". I am just hopeful that another antipsychotic will be released in the future that will work for me. And an antidepressant that would work would be great too. But in all honesty, being on Zyprexa has helped my paranoia out a lot. But not fully. I dont think there is any such thing as full treatment with mental illness, maybe for a few people but I believe that the vast majority still have symptoms of their illness when they are being treated. Also, I am not schizophrenic or schizoaffective, not that I would care about the labels but i have been seen by several psychatrists and psychologists and all say I am bipolar I, OCD and have paranoia. I dont fit under one label but I dont think many people do.

[Amulte]

right on

[alien]

And one more thing I totally disagree with you brian with anxiety. If you have an anxiety disorder or suffer from anxiety any med that can take it away is a godsend. Benzo's are under used now days. You ever tried the therapy's for anxiety like CBT, exposure therapy and so on? Its painful. It takes months no wait, YEARS for real results for people like myself who have had these problems since they were like 4 years old. Ive gotten to the point where i wouldnt leave the house because of my anxiety to the point now where I can go out and so on and I thank the therapy but most of all I thank the drugs like benzo's which take away the anxiety attacks and make life easier to live. I dont want to end up in a psychatric ward again, and if ativan can relax me enough to have a semi-normal life so be it.

[Amulte]

Testify Alien Brother!

my "root" is PTS at the age of 8 years old, went on for like 3 years that stress did. a little anxious about it but you can talk all you like about what happened but it dont change shit! its past, hey bad shit happens to good people, so ya get over it. its NOT a matter of Karma. WTF was that about? anxienty and karma dont hold shit together!

EDIT : that was about Brians post

[ 28. March 2005, 16:23: Message edited by: Amulte ]

[alien]

One more thing, being on antipsychotics is severely sedating. I HAVE to have caffeine, and a lot of it. I sleep around 12-14 hours a day and Im tired throughout the rest of the day. I know its not good for my anxiety but if i didnt have it id be in bed 24/7. Also im not scared of shrooms, i was just worried they may make my paranoia worse. I dont know if Id ever take them again given the opportunity though.

[spiders]

Thelema - your quite right in a way, but ive had some doses of mushrooms where it was like being thrown straight through into oblivion and i avoided the anxiety that can occur, but the majority of mushroom experiences can come with ateast some anxiety - the last few times i did mushrooms was during an illness and i got anxious as all hell - worst ive ever had it.

Last time it was clear sailing again, so maybe it was just becuase i was ill??

[nabraxas]

alien--i'm glad to hear that you are recieving treatment & taking your meds as prescribed.

i know exactly where you are comming from, i've had friends hang themselves while being treated, & i know it takes alot ov fiddling around to find the right meds at the right dose.

i'd debate that you are "treatment resistant"--these disturbances usually take a long time to manifest--that's a long time ov the brain slowly changing the way it functions--did you wake up one morning with paranoi? no it came gradually--& any "cure" will be gradual to--i mean it takes 2 weeks before most antipsychotics have an effect anyway---2 weeks before these powerful meds have any effect--does that not show how hard it is to change/regulate brain chemistry?

I dont think there is any such thing as full treatment with mental illness --there is. i've seen folks you would never know had any problems.--do not give up hope.

I dont like having a pseudo-parkinson's disease syndrome that the typical antipsychotics give you. Id rather be paranoid than be a vegetable. ---are you talking about tardive dyskinesia? which effects about 1 in 10 long term users ov the older antipsychotics.

hey, it's your choice, but i have some very close friends who would still be in secure wards, if it wasn't for those meds.

sure they are running a risk, but i'm sure they would rather enjoy a rich & varied life now, than be talking to light bulbs but free ov the risk ov dsykinesia.

[alien]

wow i didnt expect such a response to this thread lol. I dont think i will read anymore into it and i havent read all the posts as a lot of people seem to be getting upset over this topic but I just have one last thing to say before i leave this thread alone. nebraxis, I am really sorry about your friend thats awful. But in regard to me being "treatment resistant" that is the label that my doctors have given me. They want to send me off to the city to some clinic type shit now. I think they want me to try drugs that arent out yet, u know go on one of those trials but im not too keen for this. How could I not be treatment resistant when I have tried every available antidepressant, atypical antipsychotic, almost every benzo, all the mood stabalisers .etc .etc I have literally been on over 40+ medications for my problems. I am just coming to terms that the way I am now, the treatment that I am having which is partially successful is the best its going to get until some new wonder-drug comes out (hopefully that doesnt rely on the utterly shit mono-amine hypothesis). I guess I am not fully treatment resistant then because I am having partial success but yea i wouldnt call it a full success.

[nabraxas]

alien--again people i know were told by bright young psychiatristS as they were being released from a city hospital

"you will never get well; we will see you again, you've had the condition un-treated for so long"

who are functioning fine today

--don't give up hope.