Responsibility... How much is enough?

[Inyan]

19 hours ago, bardo said:

There is people who would say it is all pointless, eg. nihilists and pessimist

One day the sun will die and all life on earth will die also, so yeh it's a noble cause but ultimately it prob won't really matter either way ya go about it, do what ya feel, if ya feel like being an environmentalist that is noble and respectable if done with tact, or you can be someone who wants destruction, annihilation, chaos etc. either way i don't and won't judge cause i am not only a co-creator of each moment but also a witness and i much enjoy the totality of the experience and think it would be rather dole if we are to all agree upon something, i couldn't imagine much great learning if there is no trials to undergo. I like the contrast of black to white, what could we differentiate if it is to be only one ?

Maybe, someone else throwing out the rubbish from the window of a car, maybe by being witness to that could be viewed as amelioration to you on a personal level.

That's a tough question to answer and very subjective , where does one draw the line and  how does one determine an action as harming the environment ? how do we way up pros and cons etc.  how would we know that our actions intended as positive will actual result in a positive outcome. How much do we really know about anything to assume what is positive or not ?

Sure simple things like not throwing plastic/rubbish out on the ground is pretty much common sense but the big picture is not so simple and is quite subjective.

Even the word good is subjective, what is good for you may be bad for me so which is it ? Or what may be good for us may not be good for something else etc.

I do think it is noble to want to create or bring about change for good but man it ain't so simple, like it could be good for the forests and water ways etc. if we are to cull the human population by 80% but maybe not so good for those being culled.

It could be good to work out more and get healthy but that means you eat more produce and live longer which adds strain to the agricultural industry and the environment etc, but by being sickly you will effect the health care system and contribute to hospital congestion, either way it is both and neither, any act is both good and bad, how we view it and through what filter or lens will effect how we determine, feel and think about any given subject. personally i don't think in terms of good and bad, just what is and by my will how i react or interact with the stimuli i am subjected to.

I will never be right and i will never be wrong, i will be both at all times in any and everything i do or don't do.

Either way we go and what ever may happen there ain't no one getting out of here alive brother.

 

 

I like how you mention it would be rather dole if we were all to agree with something.

 

For me, if we could all agree that rape was inherently wrong, the world might be a better place. 

 

Someone who could simply watch a rape occur and not think about it in terms of good or bad is someone that I could not relate. By watching an event unfold such as rape and not wish to doing something to ameliorate the situation to me is a bit unsettling. We may choose to do or not to do, but by witnessing an act we can not say we are innocent and simply an observer as the choice to act or not to act is always present.

 

A person who does not think in terms of good or bad about such a thing as rape for me... is likely to be a sociopath and not capable of real empathy. 

 

Empathy for others and the planet... it is as simple as that and intent. Action of course  are guided by intent, but also the degree of knowledge we have on a particular subject. For instance, if you know a woman is being raped and beaten into submission and you do nothing that is much different than a women who you might see in the woods who is having what you assume to be consensual sex, but in reality has simply been beaten into submission so many times she no longer fights back. You could simply remain an observer in either case... but what one observes and does nothing to change to me speaks volumes about the person.

 

Are the acts not done just as important as the acts that are done? 

 

If the planet is being raped and you do absolutely nothing to change that... is it because you lack power to make a change, knowledge to make a change, or do you simply lack the intent?

 

If you have the power to ameliorate a little bit of the suffering and instead you happily engage in the raping of the Earth or watch as others do the same....What does that say about you?

 

 

[Northerner]

Your analogy sucks balls Inyan.

[bardo]

I don't think you fully grasped what i was trying to communicate in the way i intended, i feel like from what i have written you have interpreted it to now have the view i am a sociopath incapable of emotion, compassion and lacking a moral compass, if that is so you are very mistaken about my character.

19 hours ago, Inyan said:

For me, if we could all agree that rape was inherently wrong, the world might be a better place. 

To the truest meaning of the word i find rape to be a disgusting act, i could agree with you all day and night about this but it won't change what has happened, what is. and will likely have no effect on what will. 

19 hours ago, Inyan said:

By watching an event unfold such as rape and not wish to doing something to ameliorate the situation to me is a bit unsettling.

I don't think ameliorate fits so well in that sentence, its like saying you want to make the act of rape better rather than alleviate the situation but i get what ya saying.

19 hours ago, Inyan said:

We may choose to do or not to do, but by witnessing an act we can not say we are innocent and simply an observer as the choice to act or not to act is always present.

Man while we are here there is no way of not interacting, it is impossible to not interact with the forum of life, we are both an observer of the moment as well as co- creators of the next and so on. We cannot choose to act or not act, we can choose how we act or re-act, show me how one is to not act as to not act is an act, get what i am saying ?

19 hours ago, Inyan said:

but what one observes and does nothing to change to me speaks volumes about the person.

If it has been observed than its to late to change anything as it has already happened other wise it could not be observed, the only way to alleviate suffering or distress at that point is through acceptance of what is, most suffering occurs when someone wants something to be what it is not.  

When we try to enact change guess what, it ain't change cause it is what it is, change happens from the past and all is always changing from that view but we don't live in the past we live in the moment and we can't change the moment, if you think you are changing the moment your not you are just creating or co-creating the moment, to change it would require a time machine.

19 hours ago, Inyan said:

Are the acts not done just as important as the acts that are done?

Acts not done ? how can an act not be done ? if it is not done than it is not an act.

I think i get what your saying but yeh i think you mean how we acted or interacted or how we will act or interact, Is that important ? I don't now is it ? if you mean important in the way of something having value or significance well i think it only has as much value or significance as one gives it, what you do has no effect on whether the next moment will occur or not, you will however be a co-creator of that moment.

 

20 hours ago, Inyan said:

f the planet is being raped and you do absolutely nothing to change that... is it because you lack power to make a change, knowledge to make a change, or do you simply lack the intent?

Man you cannot change anything, what has has and what is is, anything that is yet to happen will be different from the past but you will never change anything. If you don't get that yet than you are not living in harmony with lifes story or song, you can't change anything because as far as i know we don't have a time machine, (tho by viewing the past through your mind you can develop a new perspective which alters ones views which can lead to peace and alleviate suffering) but yeh show me something you changed ? you can't because it is fictitious and a fallacious.

20 hours ago, Inyan said:

f you have the power to ameliorate a little bit of the suffering and instead you happily engage in the raping of the Earth or watch as others do the same....What does that say about you?

 

Again i don't think the word ameliorate fits to well in that sentence, its like saying making suffering better rather than alleviating it.

All are doing the best they can to there abilities and understanding, many don't view the daily activities of the concrete jungle as rape. I don't think people deserve judgment (especially from someone with a hypocritical view) for doing there part in a society, like if you are in an accident and people are going to die if they do no get to a hospital, are you going to get up the ambo driver for using fossil fuels ? does he deserve your righteous judgment and condemnation ? or does he deserve praise and honor ? Do you see what i am saying and have been saying as a basis through this whole thread ?  

Its all good to point out all of the problems with things but it ain't so easy to provide alternatives to the so called problems, i mean real life practical alternatives with real life practical ways of transitioning, so far i have yet to see anything written in this tread that is substantial in this regard, lots of judging and condemning of others but not much in the way of critical thinking.

And no one has answered my question of how do you know that to enact something you think is positive will result in a positive outcome? and all my other questions along this line which are conveniently ignored.

You clearly are a part of the "rape" by just using a computer, so i will throw this question back at you, If you are a participant of the rape yet condemn others for the rape what does that say about you ?

 

[mysubtleascention]

Do you think the Universe and planet Earth being part is giving you as much unconditional love as you need?

Do you think that Earth will provide you with situations in life where you can fulfill your deepest desires?

Do you think incarnating on Earth is making dreams come true for saviours, murderers and victims simultaneously?
Do you think people should have an equal opportunity to incarnate into their dreams of violence or peаce?

 Being a violent saviour is what it is and provides the dream for people that need to incarnate into it, in order to have the experience and go forward. Same applies for people who assault or are the victims in any situation - all types of incarnation have the meaning needed by the person experiencing it and engaging in that particular activity. A passive victim is incarnating into the experience having a purpose. Everything has a meaning and striving to prevent certain types of activity on Earth is part of the whole process. Certain types of activity on the planet are to cease when certain types of consciousness cease to incarnate here. The planet itself is not a separate entity from the consciousness incarnating on Earth - it is a whole organism the same way a human or animal body is comprised of living parts, complementing the whole.

 

Being a violent saviour or a victim or someone assaulting others is a human interaction energy exchange dynamics imprinted in the conscious or subconscious mind by a simple act of copy and paste.  

 
Good and bad are always a subjective experience upon what possibilities are on offer for gain or loss of energy, with the energy exchange dynamics provided by any particular incarnational construct.

 

Good for the violent saviour is their personal energy exchange in a gain, meaning reception of energy from the saved victim as a gratitude and forcing energy out of the subdued assaulter ; a societal  gratitude bonus of energy might play a role here as well.
Bad for the violent saviour is experienced as loss of personal energy, being in a position of inability to subdue the assaulter and to receive energy bonuses in gratitude.

 

Good for the victim is receiving energy from the saviour and ceasing the energy loss towards the assaulter.
Bad for the victim's energy exchange dynamics is experienced as the continuation of the energy loss towards the assaulter and lack of energetic help bonus provided by a saviour.

 

Good for the assaulter energetics is gaining energy from victims and preventing any saviour to interrupt the process.
Bad for the assaulter's energy exchange dynamics pattern is experienced as inability to juice a victim or interruptions of the gaining process by saviours.

Enough people having the desire to incarnate in a violent situation, in order to evolve their personal energy exchange dynamics patterns into something different, is a reason good enough for them to be part of such occurances on the planet - consciously or subconsciously.

 

Consentual BDSM role-plays feed similar patterns of violent energy exchange as well.

To alter their own energy exchnage dynamics pattern any assaulter needs a better way to provide energy for their being and that is only possible by experiencing a different and better way to feed their personal needs of energy, or a change of the quality of the energy needed. Providing the circumstances for anyone to make the change in themselves and to alter the way they energize their being is a karmic interaction.

 

Most of us have experienced personally all three roles of assaulter or victim or saviour in certain situations. These patterns of energy exchange are archetypal in nature.

 

The beauty of choice on Earth is the equality in freedom to incarnate into whatever you want. Victim, saviour, assaulter or something else entirely.

 

Other types of consciouness making external observation upon the occurances between the archetypes of victim, saviour and assaulter and the energy exchange happening among these three, might perceive the energy exchange itself being a great act of compassion between victim and assaulter or between victim and saviour and also between assaulter and saviour, happening on a subconscious level - arranged to provide the exchange needed, in order to help the evolution for these archetypes into new ones, desired by all participants.

 

  Looking to correct other person's mistkes and misgivings is attempting a change in their reality - a male approach of giving, needy of a complementary female approach embracing the offered reality. A ready "enzyme" only good if the "receptor" can appreciate the offered divination.

 

Accusing any one or any thing of insufficiency is instant giving away of the opportunity to claim responsibility for your creation of the "perfect now" reality while incarnating and the opportunity to find bliss in what the world is providing as raw material to be interpreted. 

 

Pointing insufficiencies into the world is pointing insufficiencies into one's own personal reality. Reality can be consciously arranged internally, giving a heart-fulfilling meaning to all elements of the world, willingly bringing personal touch to everything.

 

Pointing mistakes and insufficiencies is guilt derivative. Creating guilt and attempting to distribute guilt within a consensus reality is a passsive-agressive approach towards one's own ability to co-create a stisfying reality. 

 

How much responsibility is enough ?    As much as the amount needed to have a good karma  !

 

 Whatever you need to do in order to make it possible for you to interpret the world as the paradise you wanted to incarnate into. Whatever brings you to creating that heart-fulfilling reality for youself, being part of the consensus reality.

If you're not happy with the world or with your own reality, then more personal responsibility is needed apparently !

 

Every reality has a different vibrational frequency and the "higher states of consciousness" are different realities, coexisting in the same space, along the "lower vibrational state" realities - same space is experienced as a different place, because the energy exchange dynamics between the same elements of the world are different and the karmic relationship is different, due to these differing energy exchanege dynamics.

 The system assembled with the same elements is different as the energy exchange between the elements is different in a "higher state of consciousness".

 

People in the same space are functioning diffently as the consensus reality is differing and the opportunities for co-creation while incarnatiing in "higher state of consciousness" differ from the opporunities in" lower state of consciousness".

Inspiring others to make personal changes is different than forcing views on them through fear, or trying to manipulate them, blaming.. Within inspiration personal energy levels are hightened and the energy exchange with the world is experienced as uplifting. 

 

Finding the inspired meaning for any element in your world is making you fulfilled.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by mysubtleascention

[bardo]

21 hours ago, mysubtleascention said:

Other types of consciouness making external observation upon the occurances between the archetypes of victim, saviour and assaulter and the energy exchange happening among these three, might perceive the energy exchange itself being a great act of compassion between victim and assaulter or between victim and saviour and also between assaulter and saviour, happening on a subconscious level - arranged to provide the exchange needed, in order to help the evolution for these archetypes into new ones, desired by all participants.

I like how there can be one thing yet it can be perceived in so many ways, it is like as if a million views on one thing, takes one thing into a million realities. 

What you have written here is an interesting take on things, i quite like it : )

22 hours ago, mysubtleascention said:

Accusing any one or any thing of insufficiency is instant giving away of the opportunity to claim responsibility for your creation of the "perfect now" reality while incarnating and the opportunity to find bliss in what the world is providing as raw material to be interpreted. 

Awesome : )

22 hours ago, mysubtleascention said:

The system assembled with the same elements is different as the energy exchange between the elements is different in a "higher state of consciousness".

Maybe an example to explain more simply would be if you like a song and it's meaning, then 10 years later the song through personal experience/growth takes on a new meaning almost as if a different song altogether, same song just with a different perspective or view.

Do you think this is a decent and fitting although simplified analogy to this ?

[mysubtleascention]

 

 

 

 

                                                               stretchSIRf

 

 

 

 

[Inyan]

 

 

Asking if the plant Earth is giving you enough unconditional love is failing to realize that in order to experience unconditional love one from another one must first have unconditional love for oneself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I don’t believe there is any inherent need for murder, rape, cancer, man made global warming, etc. That kind of thinking is indicative of thinking entrenched in dogma at best and at worst is indicative of one that is incapable of genuine empathy and shows a genuine lack of conscience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good and bad can indeed be subjective, in that good and bad is often colored by ones dogma and or personal beliefs. However, be that as it may, most of us instinctively have empathy for another human being when it comes to their suffering. This is what makes us humans and not psychopaths. I will explain a bit further. If I were to take 10 people in this forum at random and show them a young dead man that had been mutilated for no apparent reason I’d be willing to bet 9 out of 10 of the people here would have sympathy in that they would feel compassion for that individual that might even be so strong as to cause a violent retching or vomiting from the pits of their stomach. We inherently feel and know that mutilating another for no reason is wrong. To feel differently is something that must be taught or one must be born with the inability to feel empathy or sympathy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, to wrap it up without explaining things too much more and in too much unneeded depth… if one has knowledge of an act that causes pain or suffering or that will cause pain and suffering it is natural to want to help to alleviate that pain and suffering. It is inherent in us as human beings to want to alleviate pain and suffering as we have empathy and sympathy for others that we see as the same as us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, failure to do anything about a murder, rape, or any other such atrocity speaks volumes about the person who fails to act so long as they have adequate knowledge about the fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The art of detachment.... that is something many are good at however. Some out of necessity, as for example those who work with the dead must stay detached from their work lest they have horrific dreams at night. As I can attest as I've worked with both the dead and those who work with the dead.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Inyan