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Inyan

Responsibility... How much is enough?

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How can we call ourselves spiritual when so many of us sit in silence? How can we say we make a difference when so few of us make a stand? Where do we spend our dollars? What do we support? Through inaction or silence we are complicit in slowly killing the Earth and our Oceans in the same manner we are complicit in our own demise when we do something harmful to our bodies or we fail to take action to improve our health. I look at my health and I know that there is more that I could do. I know I am not the best when it comes to trying to exercise for a few minutes every day... a few minutes that I could easily waste on youtube, television, etc. Yet, I know that when I can find the time to spend just 2 minutes to do a set of pull-ups I am working to improve my health in a very real way. I can see and feel the difference with just 2 minutes a day of exercise like this. 2 minutes of pull-ups. 2 minutes of pushups. 5 minutes running... anything is better than doing nothing and consistency is key. 

 

I find the need to speak out on my spirituality which is grounded in a love of this planet and for life on this planet. To bring to light in this moment of time in my own mind if no one else's the importance of the Earth and how much she means to me. To reflect and empower myself with knowledge on how we can make a difference even if that difference is the equivalent of taking 2 minutes out of the day each day to do pull-ups. I'm over 100 kgs in weight and yet I can still lift more than my bodyweight in all major exercises to include simple things like pull-ups with my simple routine. For me, it is about taking the time to express that we can make a difference simply by sharing or learning about how we can help the environment or what we are doing to harm the environment. It is about taking responsibility for our own bodies and for the Earth. Knowledge is power and sharing knowledge has never been more easy than it is today. 

 

We affect others with our posts when we share things. Some to a greater degree and some to a lesser degree, but we are all connected. Mitakuye oyasin... reflect on what it means to be related or connected to others as we are all connected in this great web of life. The air we breath, the water we drink have all been recycled. 

 

I want to say, I don't do much to stay in shape. I often don't do enough and I slip a bit. But I always stay in shape enough to lift more than my own weight. I don't do much in the way of environmentalism either. I do however speak out on the acidification of the ocean every time I hear someone say something about global warming. I talk about it. I am not silenced. I will not be silenced when it comes to my support for the Earth. I've gone to rallies and the like, but is there more I could do? You bet there is, but like my own health... I tend to do enough to keep me in decent shape and not enough to make me a marathon runner. 

 

With Earth Day just a few days ago... how many of you took the time to go to one of the local celebrations? How many of you had a local celebration to go to? 

 

For me, I don't think it is necessary for us all to be marathon runners or professional level power lifters to maintain good health. I do think that a bit of exercise... even just a 2 minutes each day can make a world of difference in my health and general feeling of wellbeing so long as  I am generally consistent with those 2 minutes. Don't get me wrong, I have my 2 minute rule or 1 set minimum I try to hold myself to, but I do more on some days if I feel like it. In the same manner, I go to Earth Day events, March on Washington D.C., etc. as time and schedule permits.

 

What I am trying to say here is for me, spirituality begins with taking care of yourself. Setting a minimum standard for yourself to strive to achieve each day. More is certainly great, but for me you have to have clear minimums that you don't want to fall below. After you have taken care of your own minimum needs you can start to work on your other minimums. For me, one of those minimums are letting others know that there are others like them that do care. We can all do our small part to effect change.

 

Decide what your minimum is then strive to reach it each day. Mitakuye oyasin

 

 

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 every body placing -
 early mooning
 .. camping morning

 

 planet starlings !

 

 

 

 

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On 5/8/2018 at 5:44 AM, Crop said:

 

I love your posts Crop. You are a breath of fresh air in a world that is frequently darkened by those that seem to either not care or not understand that we have a responsibility to take care of the only space we have. Its not the great deeds done by one, but the many small deeds done by the masses....If knowledge is power, then sharing ones thoughts is sharing power. For me, I strive to share those thoughts that have more merit or power to them. Admittedly, I don't always live up to that, but it is through sharing power that I feel we can grow to a place where we can undo some of the harm we are creating haphazardly on this planet by our often lackadaisical attitude towards subjects such as global warming or the acidification of the ocean. People tend to at a very small picture of where they are at and if where they are at is good... then everything is good. The world doesn't operate on such a small insignificant scale thought. Trends happen over time and temperatures fluctuate over great distances. The whole picture is overlooked as it really is like standing nose to ass with a herd of elephants. We get lost in the one anus we have our face stuck in and even if we can pull our heads out of that anus far enough to see the other elephants we are met with more ass and perhaps some hind legs if we are lucky. We often call that getting perspective and yet we have failed to simply walk around that single elephant much less the herd we are in to attempt to see what is really happening.

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 heavy -
 lifting
 .. spiritual burdens

 

 modern talking !

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Inyan said:

We get lost in the one anus we have our face stuck in and even if we can pull our heads out of that anus far enough to see the other elephants we are met with more ass and perhaps some hind legs if we are lucky.

Mate I can't get that image out of my head now.

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I dunno bro.

 

in saying that, I'm not judging, I agree with most of what you said & your heart is obviously in the right place but I can't help but mention that I kind of feel that a portion of the attitude you are expressing is actually part of the problem. 

 

What I mean is that there seems to be a global pandemic of anxious people that are furiously trying to save the world by condescendingly lecturing others about how they should live their lives while simultaneously doing very little themselves to make real change, as though lecturing people will in itself fix our problems.

 

i feel it's actually the opposite, people in general are extremely sensitive to hipocricy & feel insulted being lectured by condescending hipocrites (I'm def not saying this is what you are, your post just brought this issue to my mind).

 

Seems to me that this a big part why we've ended up with Trump for example.. it's a reaction to this kind of attitude..

 

It doesn't matter how right we may be to feel that way, the energy we put into the world when we are extremely anxious & angry & desperate for change is toxic & just adds to the soup of toxicity & bad karma.. do you think you will change someone's mind by putting that out into the world? Do you really think going to Earth Day is what is going to save the world? As opposed to actually working on yourself & changing your own way of life & working on your own consciousness & trying to bring something positive into this world?  I'm not saying earth day isn't a positive thing, I just think it's largely preaching to the converted & is pointless unless you're actually doing the work in yourself well before you start telling others how to be.

 

other than that I totally do get your sentiment.  Forgive me if you think I'm inaccurate but there may be a couple of flaws in your approach

 

Edited by paradox
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Don't worry m8, your aren't killing the planet.

The planet is kiling you instead

 

You come across smarter than you portrait in this thread so i assume you are trolling :P

 

Other than that i agree with paradox.

Thinking you can make a contribution as a consumer is too short sighted (AKA not gonna happen)

 

I'm pretty sure though you are gonna be fine as well as the globe

Or do you feel some negative impact of natures dynamics?

 

Edited by DualWieldRake

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Do what feels right in your heart, here is some comedy to chill to, all is impermanent, some might say by trying to prolong our human experience is to to prolong pain and suffering.  When i was younger i used to be preachy about the environment and such but then a simple truth clicked that we are where we are, it is what it is and we do what we do, its quite peaceful yet thrilling to let go of it all and embrace ones own journey and mortality.

I do what feels right to me and let others do what they will as they will anyway, to much discord when trying to be a right fighter, test everybodies patients around you, and i doubt any one person is right about anything except in there own view of reality.

I am rambling, i say power to ya, truly think it is great to care so much and want to help and do good but yeh we all gonna die. All things die, a harsh yet freeing truth. In the face of this it is very honorable to find what gives you joy, peace and to help others etc. and do it full well knowing its all dust/ash.

 

Prob the best thing to do is have a 20 year breeding ban to try bring our numbers down ? i don't know it is complicated stuff and all "answers" i have come across also create "problems" so whats the plan ? me i aint breeding, i find this experience and emotions of rotting in a flesh suit so harsh and powerful that i could not imaging creating someone to feel the same, and what for ? drag that energy from where ever it is and encapsulate it, for what purpose? meh glad to be here all the same but think i will prob stop my gene pool here lol, funny bloody thing to be alive lol

 

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Depends on your definition of spirituality ;) 

You're expressing a challenge that appears to be coming from a place self-superiority, whether you mean to or not.  This speaks more a spiritual materialism than anything else, just a heads up.  In saying that I respect the message you're trying to convey.  Action is necessary where it is called for.  For example, me loving meat yet going towards vego, trying to see the environmental impact of that and the impact on the suffering of beings. 

Moreso, it is most effectively transmitted through endearment, encouragement, inspiration and humility.    


 

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19 hours ago, bardo said:

Prob the best thing to do is have a 20 year breeding ban to try bring our numbers down ?

 

I don't think this is an issue

 

 

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Lol 7.4 billion in one city couldn't see that ever working and if it did that would be a hellish place, lets be generous and say we need 1.5 acres to feed on person we already have major problems just there, what about medicine production, clean water, power, pollution, waste and so on ?

 

Put all the eggs in one basket, just send a few people in carrying a highly contagious fast moving virus, just walking around shaking hands touching railings and coughing, sneezing then boom. Or a grand natural disaster of some sort, what could go wrong lol So many problems with the concept.

 

 

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Responsibility... How much is enough?  

 

That would be about 3, yeh 3 should be enough

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On 6/6/2018 at 6:30 PM, paradox said:

I kind of feel that a portion of the attitude you are expressing is actually part of the problem.

I get what your saying, but I'm not sure I agree. Off cause you can't be a hypocrite and yes people don't like being preached to. Isn't that why it works? The very successful civil rights movement was based on it. One person preaching is annoying, but when the converted start preaching it becomes so uncomfortable that social change occurs. Look at smoking. When I was growing up, smoking with a child sitting on your lap was normal. Yet this week alone, I have watched 2 different smokers tell others off for doing just that. Are they hypocrites? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact they stopped someone from poisoning a child. Racism is another good example. In some social groups where no one speaks up, racist jokes persist, while in other circles they would not be tolerated. I have know doubt looking in the mirror is the first step in making the world a better place. However given the alarming trend towards selfishness, I think lobbying others may be more important today than ever before. 

 

Edited by Crop
Stuffed up.
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On 6/7/2018 at 5:56 PM, Mapacho said:

the impact on the suffering of beings. 

Sorry mate this is way off topic but I'm very curious. Please don't get offended, I respect what you are trying to do. However how is this not discrimination? Some plants have been shown to respond to predation by producing defensive chemicals. They have even been shown to release pheromones which warn their neighbours, so they can build up chemical defences before the vicious vegetarian even gets to them. Doesn't this at least show the plant does not want to be eaten? Perhaps even, it has a sense of community, empathy for it's neighbours? My question is ethically, how is tearing such a plant apart to make a salad, any different to shooting Bambi?

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On 08/06/2018 at 10:13 AM, Crop said:

Look at smoking. When I was growing up, smoking with a child sitting on your lap was normal. Yet this week alone, I have watched 2 different smokers tell others off for doing just that. Are they hypocrites?

That's some fascist social warrior type stuff man, stuff letting others dictate what is normal or not for someone else, if someone gave me that crap for whatever reason they believe, even if i agreed with them i would flick them off, conform or we will attack you lol nah stuff the conformists lol

To many people getting into other peoples business, do gooders. I think people forget life is terminal and take things way to serious, 1st world problems.

On 08/06/2018 at 10:13 AM, Crop said:

In some social groups where no one speaks up, racist jokes persist, while in other circles they would not be tolerated. I have know doubt looking in the mirror is the first step in making the world a better place. However given the alarming trend towards selfishness, I think lobbying others may be more important today than ever before. 

You can make a joke about race without antagonism, a joke about race doesn't necessarily equate to that speech being malicious, man i would hate to be a comedian these days having to think twice about everything to avoid being attacked by the pc crowd and having ones career destroyed, with all this pc stuff we are slowly loosing our human nature, we are becoming frightened to react and do things instinctively and in a care free flowing type way, we are delayed by a social filter which makes people almost robotic, loosing there true personality.

Come join the hive mind or we will attack you and put constructed consequences on you that are far worse than the apparent 'crime' being perpetrated Lol.

 

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8 hours ago, Crop said:

The very successful civil rights movement was based on it. 

 

 

The civil rights movement was based on hypocrisy? What you on about bruh?

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Lol

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Lobbying for positive change isn't a bad thing. My point is that if the people preaching are hypocrites that use shame as a their primary tactic then any apparent progress is most likely empty & illusionary.  

 

like this current first world pc disorder that bardo is talking about.. it seems to me the pc keyboard warrior activists are so busy patting themselves on the back & agreeing with each other they have absolutely no clue of the shitstorm of reactivity they are inciting.  All the while they are convinced they are saving the world because they never talk to anyone with a different opinion to themselves.

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I agree that lobbying for positive change isn't a bad thing. Just quite often the ones who are speaking the loudest and judging and hating on someone or something rarely have any practical plan to implement, just don't do this and don't do or do this and not that without giving any real feasible direction or alternative, i mean within one so called problem there is a myriad of issues to face, and same goes for solutions. I think it is good to want positive change but just saying/expressing vague ideologies does not really generate any real change, it requires a lot of thought and hard work to generate significant change and there may be no way of truly knowing the implications of that change, something that sounds good may not be so good, short term or long term.

Behavior is a complex thing. Some folks may be a little brainwashed and/or biased in there views, not really encompassing all the necessary data to come to sound and logical conclusions or solutions. Like i said earlier, what is the plan ?

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9 hours ago, Crop said:

Sorry mate this is way off topic but I'm very curious. Please don't get offended, I respect what you are trying to do. However how is this not discrimination? Some plants have been shown to respond to predation by producing defensive chemicals. They have even been shown to release pheromones which warn their neighbours, so they can build up chemical defences before the vicious vegetarian even gets to them. Doesn't this at least show the plant does not want to be eaten? Perhaps even, it has a sense of community, empathy for it's neighbours? My question is ethically, how is tearing such a plant apart to make a salad, any different to shooting Bambi?

 

Lol those viciously voracious vegans and vegos with vindictively violent vendettas against veges!  Its a great question and thanks for your gentle approach, but it is ok...why should any question be off limits?!  I appreciate it actually.  I won't get too into detail but I will give you a few insights into my perspective.

 

I could go into the biology of it, but I am not familiar with plant biology, so this wouldn't be fair and thus is fairly limited in its worth, not to mention much of it is debatable.  It is safe to say though that plants don't have a central nervous system, with a brain at the apex.  So while there is evidence of nervous transmission, there is no core that receives pain the same way as the brain does in humans.  They have complex behaviours, but not a nexus where that behaviour is decided independent of external stimuli.  In the beginning I think humans are the same, relying on external stimuli to a large extent, but as we develop our "selves" this changes and becomes a web of "self" and an appearance and belief in "free will".  A self forms, one that identifies with the body as self etc.  I think animals are somewhere in between, noting that all vertebrates have a hindbrain and nervous structures similar to humans.

 

(Edit: also fascinatingly, humans have the endocannabinoid system and endogenous opioids that clearly work to alleviate painful stimuli, similar to many animals.  Perhaps the existence of this and forgive me if I'm wrong but the absence of this in plants indicates a different context for pain between the species?)

 

This is enough for me to consciously doubt plants capacity to feel and suffer pain as a vertebrate does.  I dont think plants sense themselves as separate from earth and animals and all phenomena like we do.  I think that is the wisdom we touch on when working with teacher plants.

 

I wont touch on factory farming or even general farming practices much, however, antibiotic resistance is a huge issue impacting humans and animals alike.  The animals' physical suffering ranges alot too.

 

Meat and dairy are huge contributors to global warming.  According to recent scientific papers this is a much bigger issue than clearing land for farming.  Again a complex issue.

 

All of this pales in comparison to one thing though.  My heart.  I have killed plants for food, and I have killed animals for food.  One made me feel deeply saddened and physically sick.  One did not.  In the end, I will not be dictated by rationality but the heartmind.  Even if this perspective is wrong due to myopic sensory limitations of the human body and mind, it is the most reliable source of determining right and wrong.

 

I am headed for awakening.  The path has shown me that before I let go of all views, the existence of right and wrong, the existence of a separate persisting self, that first I must be as purely right or wholesome as is possible, with the heart and mind synchronously guiding me.  It is my heart that tells me to eat less meat, not that meat itself is bad, but that if I can reduce the suffering of that which I know myself to suffer, even just a little, it is worthwhile.

 

Would we feel bad about eating a lettuce or a carrot if we didn't know all this science?  What about cutting a pig's throat?  I see the difference, I feel the difference, and I trust this more than thinking that there is no difference.

 

This is where I'm at.  I don't expect or demand others to feel the same, but I would encourage them to sit with it.  And I know its right for me, for where I am at now. :)

Edited by Mapacho
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I have reflected on what i said in the last post a little and i disagree with myself somewhat in that expressing ideologies and thoughts through discussion, protest etc in itself can stimulate real change, change in thought can lead to change in behavior.

 

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3 hours ago, Mapacho said:

I will give you a few insights into my perspective

Mate thanks for your perspective. This is a question I have been grappling with for sometime. In my youth I was  a professional hunter, latter I went pacifist and vego. However the extremism of many of my vego friends made me uncomfortable, so I started researching their arguments. I was surprised to find most of the claims do not stand up to even rudimentary, open minded, scrutiny. It's ironic the 'not feeling pain like we do' argument was used, not that long ago, to justify eating animals and is still used today to justify the consumption of seafood. It relies on a lot of assumptions and prays on our inherent discrimination, that instinct of ours to favour things that are similar to ourselves.

 

3 hours ago, Mapacho said:

All of this pales in comparison to one thing though.  My heart.

This, of course is the best reason of all, good on ya for listening to it.

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12 hours ago, paradox said:

The civil rights movement was based on hypocrisy? What you on about bruh?

Mate you seemed to miss the whole point of the smoker anecdote. 

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