Gimli Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Seen a few lists cobbled together, so thought I'd try put together a more complete list? If there are any I've missed (no doubt I have) or a clone is under the wrong category, please comment or swing me a PM Bridgesii: 33 Albi Alko Anna Arid Art Baker5452 Ben Bert Bendigo Big Bertha Brad Bruce Cactus Land ? Cliff Con Cornucopia ? Crazy Spine CSD Eileen Emerald City Emma Essendon ? Ferret ? Fields Bridgesii Funkoid Glenrowan Greedo ? Hans ? Helen JB Kai Killer Green Cactus Light ? Lorraine ? Lotusland Lumberjack MB95 Medicine Man Melted Wax Mike (Old Mike - WA) ? Mongy Mum & Dad N1 Nats Wax Psycho0 Serra Canyon ? Sherman Short Spine Sina Sir Jeans SS02 TBM TBM Variegated TBMC TBMC Variegated Tig ? Tim ? Urban Tribes #1 Urban Tribes #2 Wowie Chalaensis: SS04 Knuthianus: Bluth Fields Knuthianus SS03 Macrogonus: Bendy ? Fields Macrogonus Hyperspacepixie ? Tipz Tripsis ? Pachanoi: Alf Altmans Monstrose ? Awful Bogan Capel Clone One (MT01) Clone Two (MT02) Fields Pachanoi Frasers ? Hahn Hamiltons Huarazensis Hutchison 1597 Hutchison 6212 J2 Justin Juuls' Giant KK339 Kimnach Kimura’s Giant Landfill L.E.R. Mike ? MT03 Woody MT06 Lupita Music Teacher NoThink Olivia Omar Oscar OSP (Old School/Skool/ Pedro/Pachanoi) Ogunbodede PC Rob Rod Roy Saquarema Skip Strybring Torres & Torres TPM TPQC ? WA Pachanoi ? Warrah ? Yowie Zeus Peruvianus: 86 Anakie Argentinensis Bonny Bryan Cactus Garage ? Chavin (MT05) Christies Clyde Colossus Dawson's Peruvianus Fahim01 Endorfinder (Huancabamba) Gawler Gnosis Goliath Hahn Hamiltons HB1 - Herbalistics? (HB01*) ? Ivan J1 J3 John Kimba ? Len Los Gentiles MG Red Spine Norma Ohlone Old Teds Rosei #1 Rosei #2 Sausage Sharxx Blue SS01 TPC TPM TPM Variegated Trent Tripsis #2 Yoda Scopulicola: Scop A Scop B Cordobensis FR991 HELON Hulk SGC16 Super Pedro ? Worm Zed's Terscheckii: Big Blue ? Dawsons Long Spine Ruby Visions Validus: Fields Validus ? SA SS 1 - South Australian Short Spine 1 SA SS 2 - South Australian Short Spine 2 Other: Dr Funkenstein Judith Eventually I'll add link to trichocereus.net or other for each Edited January 16, 2020 by Gimli 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Genius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hey Gimli, great idea for a thread. We´ll enlarge it over the next months. About the list. Icaro DNA is a strain. Most of them are seed grown and not genetically identical. Bogan is probably somewhere in between T. pachanoi and peruvianus. I have it as Pachanoi on the site, but it should probably not be seen as standard Pachanoi. We could leave it in Pachanoi, but add a note that it could as well be seen as short spine Peruvianus. It gets very spiny sometimes. But yeah, good thread! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainGoat Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Nice one gimli. It’ll be interesting to se how big this list gets. There’s sooooo many clones. Is the list specifically not hybrids? It’d be good to get a hybrid thread too with parentage info too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanGreen Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Great idea Gimli! I would add: Bridgesii: TBM TBMC Variegated TBMC Brad Helen Pachanoi: Juul's Giant Ogunbodede Landfill Oscar Peruvianus: Gawler MT05 / Chavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 L.E.R. is an old pachanoi that has been around for some time from the now defunct Legendary Ethnobotanical Resources. A specimen that flowered profusely at under 2 feet of height. Thought it might be worth mentioning for those interested in early flowering specimens. I'm sure there are others I've missed, but for now I'll leave it at this one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboy 2.0 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Teotz will be creaming himself.... Lol I'd put Bogan to the peru/macro side, but each to their own. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUpsideDown Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) I'd also add: Pachanoi Skip Awful Hutchison 6212 Hutchison 1597 Torres & Torres Kimnach Strybring Olivia Fields Pachanoi Bridgesii CSD Sherman Baker5452 Killer Green Cactus Bertha Emma Medicine Man Wowie N1 Lumberjack (maybe hybrid?) Fields Bridgesii Peruvianus Bonny Clyde Len Dawson's Peruvianus And don't forget Scops! Scopulicola Zed's Hulk SGC16 Edited March 2, 2018 by TheUpsideDown Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimli Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 23, 2018 by Gimli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimli Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Added some more. Feel free to correct/add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crop Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Mate great list. Personally I think its a taxonomic error to separate these into different species, but using most peoples terms, bridgesii: Kai Glenrowan macrogonus: Tipz Field's macrogonis scopulicola: HELON (like Spooge keeps saying 'the Australian clone is spelled with capitols') to me looks similar to Super Pedro, so I put it in the same place. Edited April 3, 2018 by Crop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimli Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Has anyone heard of a clone? called "Buddhist Monastery" ? Origins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimli Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Luther Burbank ? https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17605957 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr b.caapi Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Add Pachanoi “ Frasers” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1208 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 what's the meaning of the question marks on some of them ? unsure if it's and existing clone or which grouping it should be in ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelly Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 i think the scopulicola thing needs to be re-worked.....seems that in Aus a scop can be spineless OR can have spines like a super pedro (HELON) which is just wrong imho. I have arse loads of scop hybrids with spines....are they too all HELONS? on this side of the pond we have cordobensis AND spineless scop. super pedro & cordobensis are the same plant & they are not pure spineless scops, imho they're hybrids of scop & something else. I have a buncha pure spineless SEEDLINGS from aussie seed......why isnt MB scop & BB scop listed under the scop section? They're both spineless. Is there a differentiation between MB's spineless scop, BB's spineless scop & my spineless scop?? This hulk you speak of, is it spineless or does it look super pedro like. If spineless, why muddle the scop classification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysubtleascention Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) HULK is a spineless scop introduced by incognito.. I can add ' LC Scopulicola' - a spineless plant named by myself, after the anonymous SAB-er who sent me the cutting and made hybrid seeds LC scop X Scop A funny analogy might become: Pachanoi -> Pachanot Scopulicola -> Scopulinot There are and will be some scop x [trichocereus ] hybrids that will not be distinguishable at all from the mother scops and the gene pool will get more diverse along the years.. Spineless scop is the scop.. anything else.. well ..SCOPULINOT All plants will soon have gene sequence identificators instead of names anyway Edited May 6, 2018 by mysubtleascention 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimli Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 20 hours ago, Matt1208 said: what's the meaning of the question marks on some of them ? unsure if it's and existing clone or which grouping it should be in ? Is it an actual clone Is it already listed 18 hours ago, zelly said: i think the scopulicola thing needs to be re-worked.....seems that in Aus a scop can be spineless OR can have spines like a super pedro (HELON) which is just wrong imho. I have arse loads of scop hybrids with spines....are they too all HELONS? on this side of the pond we have cordobensis AND spineless scop. super pedro & cordobensis are the same plant & they are not pure spineless scops, imho they're hybrids of scop & something else. I have a buncha pure spineless SEEDLINGS from aussie seed......why isnt MB scop & BB scop listed under the scop section? They're both spineless. Is there a differentiation between MB's spineless scop, BB's spineless scop & my spineless scop?? This hulk you speak of, is it spineless or does it look super pedro like. If spineless, why muddle the scop classification? Should I change it to Scopulicoloid? Nice robust comment and comments in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/5/2018 at 10:18 AM, zelly said: i think the scopulicola thing needs to be re-worked.....seems that in Aus a scop can be spineless OR can have spines like a super pedro (HELON) which is just wrong imho. I have arse loads of scop hybrids with spines....are they too all HELONS? on this side of the pond we have cordobensis AND spineless scop. super pedro & cordobensis are the same plant & they are not pure spineless scops, imho they're hybrids of scop & something else. I have a buncha pure spineless SEEDLINGS from aussie seed......why isnt MB scop & BB scop listed under the scop section? They're both spineless. Is there a differentiation between MB's spineless scop, BB's spineless scop & my spineless scop?? This hulk you speak of, is it spineless or does it look super pedro like. If spineless, why muddle the scop classification? I don't believe names have to be classifications. If a person names a pure species or even a hybrid T. scopulicola seedling Helon then only it and its clones can be Helons if the name is referring to a specific clone. If however the name is referring to a specific cross or type of cross as is the case with Brugmansia aurea x Brugmansia versicolor seedlings being named B. candida or B. sanguinea x B. arborea hybrids being called B. flava. Sometimes one names the specific type of cross done such as Zelly being a cross between a fat Scopulicola and Grandiflorus hybrid. If we can have many Zelly hybrids with numbers to designate different ones we are keeping track of the specific clones identified by the number after the word Zelly which denotes a classification. Essentially, Zelly12 denotes a classification or cross first and then a specific clone of that cross second. It seems others are simply naming their individual specimens/clones without necessarily getting more specific than that. The same thing happens in Hemerocallis. You get some people that will list the parents of a particular named seedling, others will simply list one parent, or sometimes no parents are listed as the parents were unknown or unregistered seedlings themselves. The exact species involved in many complex named hybrids is often unknown. This is true whether your talking about Hemerocallis, Brugansia, cacti, etc. Now, for me, I would like to think that when I get a named clone that the clone is indeed what it being sold as. I also like to think that the clone is superior in some form or fashion to others I might already have in my collection. What makes a clone worth keeping or naming? What makes a particular cross such as Zelly a cross worth naming? For me, Zelly hybrids having spectacularly colored flowers is definitely something I look forward to when I grow a Zelly seed. I know that cross is tried and true. I have high expectations of getting that colored flower from that particular cross. With that being said, I have a beautiful Trichocereus scopulicola x Trichocereus terscheckii that while quite small is already getting its 10th rib to grow in. Now, for me... I love that given many of my other seedlings from that same cross that are the same size have 8 or even less ribs. Now, am I going to give up on my other specimens and simply name this one that I think is so special? Not at all. I am going to watch and wait and see if the others will develop more ribs in time. With that being said, I like a plethora of ribs as I can't see ever having too many of them. So, chances are I'll be keeping this one for the long haul if the others don't keep up and getting rid of the rest. Perhaps one day it will prove itself worthy of a name, but chances are someone somewhere else has grown one that is just as good looking or even better already from the same cross. So, perhaps in the end this seedling might only be good enough to warrant being the parent of another great hybrid seedling that itself is also not worthy of a name. The resulting progeny will then have parents that do not have names, but perhaps one of the many seedlings produced will be worthy of a name itself... one never knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlDry Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 So can i name my own cross of cacti anything i want? eg Eileen x Bunnings Brig. I call it "Smushroomed 6" If i had seeds I might soon.. Nah haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelly Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, mole said: So can i name my own cross of cacti anything i want? eg Eileen x Bunnings Brig. fer sure mate, you can name your hybrids anything you want.....but it would probably be a good idea to wait until they flower & you start making crosses from them naming is one thing, getting world wide recognition of that name is another thing.. as for names, I'd recommend as short as possible, unless of course you enjoy writing them out hundreds if not thousands of times.... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 hours ago, zelly said: fer sure mate, you can name your hybrids anything you want.....but it would probably be a good idea to wait until they flower & you start making crosses from them naming is one thing, getting world wide recognition of that name is another thing.. as for names, I'd recommend as short as possible, unless of course you enjoy writing them out hundreds if not thousands of times.... It goes a little like this.... No one can stop you from naming a seedling you have raised. No one can stop you from naming a specimen you have discovered in the wild that has not been named already. No one can stop you from naming a specimen found in a nursery or someone's back yard.... However, as Zelly has noted, just because you name a specimen does not mean that others will necessarily think your specimen is worth keeping. The name Brugmansia cubensis actually refers to crosses that involve 3 different species. Brugmansia aurea x B. suaveolens x B. versicolor. A name was given to a triple cross so to speak. Brugmansia candida is a name given to any cross of B. aurea x B. versicolor. Now, are all Brugmansia candida or Brugmansia cubensis equally beautiful or equally hardy? Are they all deserving of a name? Well, they all get the name B. cubensis or B. candida regardless of what we think of them. Now, Zelly has created the similar situation with his Zelly hybrids as we see above with Brugmansia candida and Brugmansia cubensis. Zelly is the first one to make zelly cross (scop x vrg grandiflorus) to my knowledge. Just like the box of chocolate crosses with Datura... the fellow who first made that cross made the distinction that all such crosses would be B.O.C. hybrids. The name stuck in both cases. I love seeing new hybrids and new names, but just because I see a newly named hybrid does not mean I'm going to rush out and try to acquire one. I love some of the BOC hybrids I've seen with their bright yellow and purple streaks. Others... just appear muddy to me. Yet, they are all BOC hybrids recognized around the world by those that collect Datura. For myself, when I was actively hybridizing Brugmansia I would grow out upwards of 10,000 seedlings to maturity in a single year and keep a mere handful of them for further evaluation. Still, I've seen others grow out a few hundred or even less of a hybrid and name several out of the cross. I'm not knocking those that can do that... great genetics often breeds great things. And an ill conceived cross is often doomed to failure from the start. Now, if I've confused you. Let me clarify by saying I think it is a wonderful thing to have a working name or numbering system for your hybrids. It allows you to keep track and take note of important things down the road if you plan on breeding. Perhaps you note that the body type generally comes from the mother, but with this one special pollen donor terscheckii the father can actually play a significant role in the body type of those seedlings on occasion. That is something to take note of. If you note that the pollen donor throws out especially fat specimens or especially long spines in its seedlings regardless of the mom... Now, I am going off on a tangent and I've probably lost at least a few of you so I'll stop right here. Hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the matter, not that my opinion or anyone else's opinion matters when it comes to choosing to name your specimen or not. I wholeheartedly believe anyone has the right to name their cacti whatever they wish to name it. if the name catches on and your specimen travels the world... great. If your specimen lives and dies in your back yard... again... great. There is no rule that a named specimen has to be popular or gain notoriety. As we have all seen, many specimens that once had notoriety often fall by the way side if enough years have passed and enough improvements have been made to make that old hybrid obsolete. One need only look at some of the first crosses done with Hemerocallis and those crosses we see today to see the truth in that statement. Again, my apologies for running amuck with my thoughts. If I've derailed your ability to comprehend where I am going with this then my job is truly done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlDry Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Seeing you get into Brugmansia Inyan One of my mums Brugmansia trees Cheers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyan Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, mole said: Seeing you get into Brugmansia Inyan One of my mums Brugmansia trees Cheers Here is a hybrid made from one of my old hybrids... for me, seeing others use one of my old hybrids to create a new and improved specimen like this is truly humbling and at the same time it fills you with a little pride to see that your hybrid will go on...as its progeny are used for future crosses. That is what its all about for me really, trying to create or grow an improvement from seed and then watching as that creation becomes obsolete as others use that seedling to improve on their own goals and before you know it... your seedling is just a memory that exists as a small part of the lineage of a whole new line if your lucky. Your mums Brugmansia has strong B. versicolor influence. You can get some spectacular flowers from that one, but you will have to grow out at least 200-300 seedlings to get something worth keeping. Edited May 18, 2018 by Inyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rainbow Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Some additional pachanoi you might want to include in the list: Huarazensis, KK339, Kimura’s Giant, MT03 Woody, MT06 Lupita, Saquarema, Zeus. Edited October 8, 2018 by Wile E. Peyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooge Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Helon is not super pedro, its a scop/cordo hybrid with monstose traits, this sets this plant apart from scops and super pedro, both of which usually dont have mostrose traits. The only cordo i know of in aus with mostrose traits is wolunda monster pedro. i can trace the Helon (with records) plant back to 1975, can this be done with wolunda monster pedro...... We named Helon, Helon for various reasons and with the spelling Helon so there is no confusion with the US bridgesii clone Helen. Hulk is another distinct scop type, if you have this clone then you know its different than a normal scop or a cordobensis. very important when finding old plants that the history is established, their origins, the year planted etc...... So much valuable information can be gleaned from old gardens and their owners. facebook, forums, vendors etc...... useful in some ways but the real stories are at the old gardens. Theres many clone lists online. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.