Beware, possible delays from Gumtree seller

[Evil Genius]

You know, if he´s taking money, he has to be available through email. It is not hard to respond to an email and if there are reasons something takes longer, he has to discuss it with his buyer.
 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Evil Genius

[Bigred]

pd always was good to me and helped me out especially when i was new .I can send you some pedro if you want

[DiscoStu]

well if everyone on this forum is a-ok with giving out personally identifiable information when it's been understood it would be kept private just because you feel personally aggrieved I'll have to think extra carefully about who I give it out to. on a forum like this trust with such information is doubly important and if that trust is not implicit and adhered to in every transaction then that's very troubling.

[Evil Genius]

Bigred, that´s really nice of you. But you know, I feel like it´s time that PD takes responsibility for stuff like this. Again, it´s still very early and he might as well deliver. It is very early on and maybe he´s just having a busy weekend. If someone has issues in his life, I understand he´s taking some more time. Sometimes, cacti have to be packed carefully. I understand.

But this is also about him taking money and not being present. I am having a very bad deja vu right now because we´ve been through this before.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Evil Genius

[Psyentist]

Thanks bigred, I appreciate it mate but it's cool.

I don't really want anyone to help me out.

I originally put this post up as a warning. A warning about a gumtree seller, not a member from here.

Thanks.

[Anodyne]

So many members just seem to take it for granted that exchanged personal details should be kept private, I think we forget sometimes that everyone might not know that this is the accepted polite behaviour around here. Perhaps it is worth adding it to the forum rules if this is something we want all members to follow? Because as they stand, there's nothing in there about privacy:

Posting Rules

1) Do not incriminate yourself or others.

2) Please be friendly and supportive (no insults).

3) Racism, homophobia, or any other bigotry will not be tolerated.

4) Commercial postings are permitted as long as they are relevant and not obtrusive.

5) Trading and advertising items for sale is welcome and encouraged!!

6) Provide a valid and accurate climate, or a location from which climate can be deduced.

7) Do no abuse the ratings systems.

Nor is it mentioned in the trade section that I can see. I know some members just mention it by PM every time they hand over their details for a trade, but if this is something that everyone agrees with & wants followed, maybe it's worth spelling it out somewhere that all new members will see.

But I agree that protecting the privacy of other members on the forum is one thing, and protecting gumtree/ebay scammers another. If those people have already published their details publicly online, linkable by simple searches, then they're not making even basic efforts to protect their own privacy. So why should we do it for them? Especially if they are ripping people off and this may be the only way to positively ID future pseudonymous incarnations. I used to run a small business & would screen clients by googling their email/phone number - it didn't catch all the dodgy ones, but it caught a lot.

We protect other members' details when they're entrusted to us as a simple courtesy, and because we might sometimes discuss topics or make trades under our usernames which we wouldn't want linked with our real personal details. But ebay/gumtree/etc trades are usually quite public to begin with - on gumtree especially, you can often see their address & phone number just by logging in.

[DiscoStu]

i can't believe it needs to be stated explicitly? i mean if in a personal message i give someone my name/address/bank details do i actually have to spell it out that they are not to post that openly on the forum?

now I know psyentist was referring to an external site but he's a trading member here, and if he cannot be trusted to keep that information private in all circumstances then how trustworthy is he?

[DiscoStu]

if there's no trust then the trading system on this forum is fucked

beyond fucked

[Getafix]

Disco Stu,

Has anyone ever posted your personal details on this forum? I will go out on a limb and say no and the reason that hasn't happened is because you have honored all trades.

I am not aware of any situations here where someone has just come out and posted private pm'd personal details on this site such as bank, ph etc so I agree I don't think it needs to be specifically mentioned in forum rules.

What Psy has posted are publicly available details available to us all on Gumtree not personal pm'd details so personally don't see his post as an issue or any kind or threat to our personal security on this site.

Getafix

Edited August 21, 2015 by Getafix

[DiscoStu]

Has anyone ever posted your personal details on this forum? I will go out on a limb and say no and the reason that hasn't happened is because you have honored all trades.

that's not the point. when trades on this forum happen there is an implicit agreement that personal information will not be made public. psyentist has shown he is a character that is willing to post personally identifiable information of a person he trades with if he feels personally aggrieved. if for some reason i don't honour a trade i expect that my details will not be posted on the forum. no one knows who is reading this forum, and personal details made public can bring a massive load of shit on that person. consider all the laws which control for cactus cultivation, if someones personal details are posted for even a 30cm pach trade then that person can get seriously fucked up if they are in the right state.

there are no excuses. this is very serious

i know that phone numbers are available on gumtree and that is not the problem i have. the problem i have is psyentist posting the name and bank details of pd, and if those details were made public on the gumtree ad then please let me know.

[spooge]

if there's no trust then the trading system on this forum is fucked

beyond fucked

does this need to be said, fairly obvious already isnt it.

[Anodyne]

Stu: I dunno if it needs saying, maybe it doesn't. But it is something I've seen before, less so for stuff like bank details, but quite a few "oh, I didn't know that it was bad form to publicly post screenshots of an abusive PM", or where members casually drop another's name or location or other general personal details in public conversation. I mean yes, you would hope that the "private" in "private message" would be a hint, but newer members might not know exactly where to draw the line. Hell, I'm not sure & I live here.

Another example is members posting their own personal details (eg. putting their personal mobile number or email address in a trade ad or request for advice) - again, there is no explicit rule against this, but there does seem to be an unspoken rule and these posts seem to get shouted down & then pulled pretty quick by mods. I suppose it is linked to the self-incrimination thing, but it's not really self-incrimination all by itself, so I'm not entirely clear on why it's unacceptable. I mean sure, it's stupid, but not actually breaking any rules or hurting anyone else, so I'm not clear on exactly why this is a problem.

[Psyentist]

Just to clarify.

I did post personal details but removed the sensitive ones.

I did leave the name, location and phone number, which were available through gumtree, in the post title but the mods removed them. Fair enough.

I apologize if I've over-reacted, I was/am quite upset at thought of being robbed of a hard earned $400, especially if this person does it regularly.

Once again, this was to warn people of a dodgy gumtree seller, not a member of this forum, and the details I posted were intended to identify this dodgy person in case of an online user name or phone number change, which dodgy sellers have been known to resort to.

The impression that I get about him from people on here and my own dealings with him, he seemed a really nice genuine dude, is that he has a good heart but demons to battle.

And that I may have been a little hasty in my accusations. It didn't, and doesn't really, look good from my side of the fence though. I sincerely hope that if it is a misunderstanding on my behalf, he is ok and we can sort it out. I have/had respect for the guy for what he has done for this community.

And once again I stress, the original post was about a gumtree seller.

[Distracted]

Loose lips sink ships.

[Anodyne]

i know that phone numbers are available on gumtree and that is not the problem i have. the problem i have is psyentist posting the name and bank details of pd, and if those details were made public on the gumtree ad then please let me know.

Psyentist only posted about a gumtree trader called Damien - it was other members/moderators who linked those to member PD & another trading profile. Just to be clear. If he'd known the forum ID of this trader, then surely the original post would've been started in the trading rep section, not as a post about a gumtree trader.

(edit- Psyentist beat me to it)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Anodyne

[spooge]

Loose lips sink ships.

and pirates rob them.

[DiscoStu]

Psyentist only posted about a gumtree trader called Damien - it was other members/moderators who linked those to member PD & another trading profile. Just to be clear. If he'd known the forum ID of this trader, then surely the original post would've been started in the trading rep section, not as a post about a gumtree trader.

(edit- Psyentist beat me to it)

no. the original post psyentist posted specifically mentioned pd in the thread title. and the bank details were posted/mentioned.

besides, as i said that's not the point. the point is posting personally identifiable information that was exchanged in private to an open forum is basically one of the worst betrayalls of trust i can think of (in terms of online trading)

psyentist, please take my sperg out as indication that this is a serious issue, i don't often get involved in dramas on this forum but posting private information is a massive issue.

in future please do not not post the private information of people you trade with. people on this forum have had trouble with the law for even cultivating cacti, as wrong as it is, it is the law in certain states. people can get seriously fucked up for our hobby, so please respect the importance of trust

[Getafix]

no. the original post psyentist posted specifically mentioned pd in the thread title. and the bank details were posted/mentioned.

besides, as i said that's not the point. the point is posting personally identifiable information that was exchanged in private to an open forum is basically one of the worst betrayalls of trust i can think of (in terms of online trading)

psyentist, please take my sperg out as indication that this is a serious issue, i don't often get involved in dramas on this forum but posting private information is a massive issue.

in future please do not not post the private information of people you trade with. people on this forum have had trouble with the law for even cultivating cacti, as wrong as it is, it is the law in certain states. people can get seriously fucked up for our hobby, so please respect the importance of trust

Sorry misread. PD wasn't mentioned in the first post but was in the title. My apologies.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Getafix

[spooge]

so please respect the importance of trust

trust goes out the window when bargains and deals are not met.

I'd follow EG's advice, give it a few weeks, keep ringing and emailing.

if you receive no response - then raise hell

Edited August 21, 2015 by olive

[DiscoStu]

i'm sorry but no. if i'm dealing with people who see no problem with posting personal information all over the forum if they feel aggrieved then i have to reconsider what i'm doing here.

there is no excuse. do not post peoples private information on the clear net. and if you feel otherwise then i'm out.

[Anodyne]

no. the original post psyentist posted specifically mentioned pd in the thread title. and the bank details were posted/mentioned.

Sorry, my mistake - I must have read the edited version, there's no way to tell if a thread title has been edited. As it stands now it looks as if other people made that link.

[Psyentist]

no. the original post psyentist posted specifically mentioned pd in the thread title. and the bank details were posted/mentioned.

I edited in 'aka PD' to the main title after being informed of his identity by a moderator of this forum [ie: watertrade in this thread], and edited it out soon after. If you read the original thread I ask if anybody knows who he is.

I understand your upset Stu and I do see the significance.

I only hope my previous posts explain my reasoning.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Psyentist

[Anodyne]

^^^

right, that makes a lot more sense of the edit timeline, I was wondering what had happened there. thanks for clarifying.

[Torsten]

Discostu, you are making a scene of something that doesn't exists in this thread. Normal 'aggrieved' trades would not justify the posting of private info of other members. The mod/admin team need to be pretty certain of wrongdoing before we allow such breach of trust. ie we need to be convinced that there has been a breach of trust by the seller before we would allow an exemption from our privacy rules.

PD's history means he does not get the benefit of the doubt, although i find 4 days a little impatient to come out guns blazing.

btw, none of this means PD won't come through eventually. His immediate need for cash often overtakes his sense of fairness, so trades often get sorted eventually. The problem is that it could be a few weeks or several months. Sometimes he won't fix up his rip offs till the next time he needs money and finds that threads like this stand in his way. This can take months.

if you think loose lips sink ships, then maybe PD should have considered that before insulting all of us here. I am also not sure what the point is of all those people who chime in saying they got their trades from him. Point is that he does fuck people over on a regular basis, so your successful trade does not make up for the ones where he rips members off.

[bullit]

Loose lips sink ships.

mmmmmmmmm loose lips i love ships