zed240 Posted September 2, 2014 Considering that ebay listing says it's "very old" and that species of aztekium was only described just over a year ago doesn't that tell us that it must have been taken from its natural habitat? Even if seeds were collected as soon as it was discovered surely they could not have grown to that size in only a year, especially if it was never grafted, as the sale states? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dionysus Posted September 2, 2014 it looks about 10 years old, give or take a couple, so, either wild collected or seed grown from seed previously thought to be ritteri or hintonii. i wonder if the authorities are onto listings like this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted September 2, 2014 I don't think there are any valdezii that have been grown from seed collected in the wild that are for sale. All of the ones coming from Europe would be grafts from poached ones as a lot say (clone1 - clone 5) and if they don't say clone next to them, it means they were grafts of seedlings that were sowed. that rooted one is most definitely a poached valdezii, at the start of the year I was in Thailand and Deaw had bought six Valdezii from that famous poacher guy in Czech. Was willing to sell me one for $50, feel stupid to have not gotten one... They'll be flowing out of Thailand soon enough as well, heaps of seed going around. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modern.shaman Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Sabry are you sure that those numbered 'clones' are actually from poached plants. From what I understand the only poached plants are those that are own roots and are a few centimeters large. The numbered clones that I understand are labeled so that people purchasing know that the plants can be crossed for seeds and are not the same plant. I can tell you right now that a grafted aztekium pups like crazy and are easily multiplied. Sadly my variegated aztekium has died but I have been blessed with two crested aztekium. Edited December 26, 2014 by modern.shaman 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted September 10, 2014 Wow... nice! Haha nah, I can't be certain, it just seemed what was most right... The guy ins't putting up anymore clone numbers though that's why i thought it might have been from a poached pant. Did you sow the seeds yourself or grab it grafted from the guy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modern.shaman Posted September 10, 2014 These were sown from seed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irabionist Posted October 18, 2014 Alright, so I have some A. valdezii seed heading my way!MS, and others, what kind of soil mixes do you use? and how do you take care of them for the first year? This is the first time I'll be trying to grow Aztekium from seed! Quite nervous especially as it's valdezii! So I've talked to a few people and they've just said use any soil but have the top with really really fine medium so that the seedlings don' fall through and disappear below. Also my seedling set up consists of 2x 18 watt fluros (these are enough to germinate and grow all kinds of seedlings I've found) and a heat mat that gets to around 26 degrees Celsius. I'm thinking of sowing them in a small plastic container and then setting it maybe 5-6cm's above the heat mat. What do guys think? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modern.shaman Posted October 18, 2014 I used crushed scoria... to keep it simple use a closed bag for the first year. I grafted all of my a.v. however my ritteri and hintonii are doing well after 3 months in high humidity and weekly waterings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooge Posted November 1, 2014 the first flower since I've had this graft, I'm unsure, it might be a ritteri. it stayed open when the other cacti flowering that day all closed up bout 3pm wen the heat and sun went. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted November 14, 2014 wow a 3rd aztekium species, cool I have a hintonii , bought it 5-6 years ago, own root, it has grown very slowly, and has added a rib I had a ritterri, grafted, tried to propagate it, fucked up both the grafts and the mother, got no ritteri now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 18, 2014 dang , which one is the main aztekium thread for porn and stuffs?...this one? or.... this one http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=37381#entry485797 ? nice to find this one too though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) the first flower since I've had this graft, I'm unsure, it might be a ritteri. dnno if you found out since, or figured it out by now; but that's definitely a ritterii beyond all shadow of a doubt it's the false ribs Edited December 18, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 18, 2014 Alright, so I have some A. valdezii seed heading my way! MS, and others, what kind of soil mixes do you use? and how do you take care of them for the first year? This is the first time I'll be trying to grow Aztekium from seed! Quite nervous especially as it's valdezii! So I've talked to a few people and they've just said use any soil but have the top with really really fine medium so that the seedlings don' fall through and disappear below. Also my seedling set up consists of 2x 18 watt fluros (these are enough to germinate and grow all kinds of seedlings I've found) and a heat mat that gets to around 26 degrees Celsius. I'm thinking of sowing them in a small plastic container and then setting it maybe 5-6cm's above the heat mat. What do guys think? dnno if you already found info on aztekium seeds liking less light than some... i keep finding info saying don't use artificial lights for them at all , instead - just diffused natural light.. hope thats of help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishfly Posted December 18, 2014 Of course, if nobody had ever collected plants from the wild, then none of us (in Europe certainly) would ever have had any cacti at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) it's interesting to see the curmudgeon laid down though, also the arguing for and against; in some places ... and the monopoly game over the plant that some cactus stores play too i notice ... and apparent reversals of ethics The politics ... are a little entertaining, ...but I predict they will soon fade into the past.. whilst fading in from the future , the plant becomes as common as the other 2 thanks to gardeners (yet again) common sense kicks in.... and it becomes further propogated by more generations of "one's that really care" ... maximising its chances..... beyond belief... with the side effect of: blatant risk minimisation of "losing the plant" I wonder what other plants have had this much fuss made about them ? did ritterii get the guilt trip propaganda in 1929 that valdezii does? or hintonii in 1991? if so, how long did it last for with them? perhaps Aztekium valdezii is a particularly powerful spirit that dsn give a fk what anyone thinks and is gna be what ever it wants, there are a few species like this , not just plants or fungi either .. I gather there's a new mammilaria been discovered since ... I wonder what else ? A lot of valdezii info/hype I've had to shit-filter: smells like a week-old wet fish in a plastic bag... in a hot car of spilt milk somewhere close to the equator... to me , thankfully there's some real lookin' gold out there... in some unlikely places.. I'm fairly new to cacti and want to help them , finding the like-minded and trading/sharing seeds is the best plan I got so far... I think it should be propogated the heck out of , till it's more common than crows and cheaper than a bic lighter for a mile of them but then , to me, there's not much cooler, out there; than ancient "new world" plants, especially Aztek or Chavin associated ones and i often think the plants know these things too... and probably for longer than people did perhaps it was the plants who plan our species? not the other way round Aztekiums are definitely amazing plants that a krillion people will wanna grow and many will want to help valdezii ----That's what i would deem : a force unstoppable ... They're also very exciting because they are seen as "hard" or " a challenge" to grow ... (meaning from seed - after a preliminary few years I gather theyre very easy to grow, albeit very slowly) I guess other than being the first generation of valdezii growers, there's probably zilch more special about them , than ritterii and hintonii.. which will just have to budge up and share their throne Edited December 20, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zed240 Posted December 18, 2014 Of course, if nobody had ever collected plants from the wild, then none of us (in Europe certainly) would ever have had any cacti at all. That's not necessarily true as seeds can be collected without destroying the plant in habitat. And past crimes don't justify current ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishfly Posted December 19, 2014 Of course, cacti removed from habitat are not destroyed. They invariably find loving new owners, who give them the best care, and do their best to propagate them. There are more A. valdezii in existence now than there ever were before the species was discovered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zed240 Posted December 19, 2014 I said, "destroying the plant in habitat" Having plants inside a collectors home isn't comparable to it being left to live in it's natural environment. It's a very sad day when plants and animals are only found in human made zoos and botanic gardens rather than being in nature. Taking something endangered from nature because you think it looks pretty doesn't make you a noble saviour. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted December 22, 2014 TH, aztekiums will never be cheap ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 22, 2014 hmm , ok, I take your word for it, I guess ya can't blame a lad for trying.. and wishfull thinking n all but maybe the seeds can all become cheap at least ? perhaps I should really say: would be nice to see the newcomer "land" at the same value of the other two , seeds first, ffwd 15-20yrs on grafts and then add plants? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) if you want the newcomer and anynewcomer to land as cheap as the previous ones, then own the cacti market, change the system, tear down capitalism.. for now, every new species, especiallyin CULT genuses like Astro or Aztekium will be the new hot thing in town! just saying PS: dont take my word for it : question everything! Edited December 25, 2014 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spanishfly Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Nothing as slow to come to maturity as an Aztekium will ever be cheap. For that matter, neither will Ariocarpus. Edited December 25, 2014 by Spanishfly 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) true thing and well received ....but I was taking your word for it since you know cacti a lot better than I do and afterall , you're one of the SABbers I've been reading posts of for the last few years its good to know aztekium will always be valuable, makes me appreciate the bargains I grabbed mine for all that bit extra I dont think much to astros but thats just me ... wonder if it would please the gods if sacrificed the first valdezii sprout and flicked it down some polystyrene pyramid steps of a yet un-carved mini aztec temple perhaps it would allow for the other 4 seeds to have a bountiful and plenty harvest for generations to come? Edited December 26, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) laughed about the god sacrifice Man there are astros that are as common as most common market cacti and there are some japanese strains that might cost hundreds of dollars. Actually sometimes I dont understand that high prizes... But if they find a 6th species in Astrophytum, you can be sure it wont be cheap the first few years, nor will seed. Edited December 26, 2014 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) x] giggle... was just gna add, I don't mind ariocarpus taking forever to grow , theyre so damned cute ! Edited December 27, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
