Sniffer dogs

[Torsten]

A magistrate has decided that the use of sniffer dogs for random searches in public areas is illegal. Obviously the Police service is mounting an appeal. Carr has agreed to discuss the matter.

Cautiously optimistic.....

[waterdragon]

you can probably expect a detailed response to this topic from shroomy some time soon.

[Guest mandragora]

l

Edited April 17, 2007 by mandragora

[NordicRituals]

yeah i was gonna post something about this. the other day the damn sniffer dogs were on my train platform... i freaked out!

sniffer dogs are like being searched without being searched... not intrusive enough for the general public to kick up a fuss, cos in the end "nothing to hide, nothing to fear".

it got me thinking though, what are the drug smelling capacities of these lovely creatures turned tools of evil?

- can they smell obscure compounds or just the mainstream drugs?

- in what amounts? or is it even the slightest scent... a friend of mine almost got cavity searched at an airport for having a tiny big of bud that got stuck to his sock!

- any way to fool them?

pardon me if these qs are in another post.

[shroomy]

and here comes detailed reply. i nearly stareted a new thread on this and was going to call it POT SMOKERES SUPPORT TALIBAN. you see i have been in sydney for the last few days for a sad familly occasion. all of my family were there including my bro,s. both of whom enjoy a good puff anyway one of the bro,s had to pick up hes wife from the train station(for those who know sydney ashfield station) but had too many beers to drive so i kindly offered. we gets to the station about half an hour early and decided to have a quick drink in the RSL club accross the road only i was rejected entry on account of my shoes. "no problems says bro i would like to have at look at the new station it was underground when i worked there years ago". it has since been refurbished and the entry is now well above ground. any way so were standing up at platform entry gates reading the arrival and departure board when this little Asian dude walks up to me and he would have been no older than say 20. straight away im thinking this guys gunna bumm a cig or want the time or somthing. than he looks at my bro and i turn and look at him at the same time. theres another young dude with a dog to which bro reached and patted(friendly little fuck it was too). than the sting. "excuse me we are undercover police and our dog has smelt an illicit substance on you". "are you carying any drugs?". the last question designed to protect them and strengthen their case in court if you admit to doing so. at this point i relised bro had smoked something before we came and it was that that the dog could smell so i began to belittle the rightuos little fucks only when i turned around bro was showing the dog handler the contents of his pocket(5 gms of sweet hydro) O K time to shut up now shroomy. " will you please come with me" says one to bro. I tell him ill wait for him and hes wife here. hes wife gets of the train and says ohh has he had too much to drink and couldn,t drive. um if only. you see that dog over there and so on and so on. she took it quite well and said well lets go and find him. at that time we see him walking back down towards us with a smile on hes face. the reason for smilling was they only issued him with a caution and explained that anything(pot) under 15gms was just a caution and you are allowed two cautions before your charged. BUT then they lectured him and the first bit went like this. "you know you shouldn,t buy drugs because your local drug dealer is more than likely a heroin addict and he buys herion from hes dealers who inturn buy thier heroin from osamar and the taliban and you dont want to support them do you" oh well fuck i had tears in my eyes and i wished i had some on me just so could hear the same stuff with my own ears. once bro had realised that a caution was it he decided to play there game. mmmm he says "but that means you support him too then". "why is that"? says seargant fuckhead. "well by taking this off me your just making me have to go out and buy more now" and besides i have flown all the way from Perth with that and now your gunna take it off me its hardly fair( wich is true).he than asked what they were going to do with it. now the cop pulls out a special sealable bag and says "we seal it in this so it cant be reopened without detection and than we burn it". "shame you cant trust your own kind says bro" im suprised they let him out unscaved .anyway after talking to a lawer by chance later that day he explained that the caution was because unless they actually arrest you the search is invalid( unless you submit or as bro did addmitt guilt) and would be thrown out under illeagle search and siesure. hes advise was(and only if your prepared to go to court and mount a defence($$$$$$$) ) you can refuse a search of your person unless you have been charged with an offence. without the charge no search is leagle. so if you play that game and comply with them whith all but the search and than they still search you than there evidance becomes inadmissable in court because it was obtained illeagly. so just remember kids if you smoke pot you support the taliban.

[rkundalini]

I can just see the cops passing the joint around later that night... blah blah blah blah blah bin laden ... hysterical laughter for next 20 minutes...

[Torsten]

Originally posted by NordicRituals:

- can they smell obscure compounds or just the mainstream drugs?

Most are trained for pot only. But some are trained for several drugs. Speed & heroin definitely, but I think also MDMA and coke.

- in what amounts? or is it even the slightest scent...

The tiniest amounts. Dogs can smell 0.25g of pot in a plastic baggie from at least 15m. But I think that is well within their range.

- any way to fool them?

No. YOu can make them think you got something when in fact you don't, but not the other way round.

[Guest mandragora]

l

Edited April 17, 2007 by mandragora

[shroomy]

the good thing is we all know that they are catching the big time smack dealers because thats how "they" travel by "train" and then they do the really big deals in the toilets and go home by train to send their ill gotten gains to the taliban andf than the tooth fairy um no sorry thats another fantisy

[Al]

Hi all,

Headline "Police sniffer dog use re-evaluated after introduction of new product"

Buy "Dog Stop 2001"

Contains aromatic terpenes from the Cannabis Sativa plant.

Does NOT contain any traces of THC.

Sales spiel:

Agitated about those pesky sniffer dogs?

Spray DS2001 around your shop/body/friends/inanimate objects and marvel at the results!

Dogs will instantly go into a state of sensory overload, giving 'positive' reactions to every object sprayed. This can result in instant defacation/urination as the poor pooch thinks its found the mother load!"

Accompanying police will waste their time searching for nothing.

Some (semi) serious questions:

If this were created o/s, would import be legal? Hence legitimate over the counter sales possible?

How long would the smell be active for? (lots of variables I know, but roughly?)

Surely its not too difficult to extract the aromatic terpenes with zero THC.

(It is only the THC thats illegal, right? Like Hemp clothing is OK and it would not be considered a food (banned))

The point being that the effectiveness (& hence worth) of the dogs would be seriously eroded if they gave many 'false positives' during their sniff spree.

Maybe I'm small minded but to me this product would provide a way of getting back at this insidious police practice.

Any takers?

Heres what I'd love to read:

[start article]

*** Sniffer dog raid on Byron foiled by new product ***

Police & their sniffer dogs have been confounded by the extensive use of DS2001, a Cannabis-smell spray-on which has caused the dogs to stop at every object which has been sprayed.

As a result 4 hours were spent searching letterboxes, telephone booths and grinning users who delighted in the satisfaction of finally having an effective weapon to counter the dogs.

Since this product is completely legal there is nothing the police can do, and are evaluating the continuing use of sniffer dogs for detecting pot.

Several officers have publicly expressed their exasperation and resigned.

[End article]

I feel better now.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Al:

Since this product is completely legal there is nothing the police can do,

I don't think such a product would be legal for long, at least not if sold for the purpose of obstructing "justice".

If it was sold as a room deodoriser or perfume on the other hand...

[Al]

Yep, a room deodorizer came to mind....

"CANodor" - the odor of sweet, sweet cannabis without the legal implications.

Hopefully after theoretically extracting the 'smell' the remaining biomass would still be 'useable'.

Just dreamin'

[Guest Hyper-SpaceCowboy]

I would love a sniffer dog of my own!

imagine the differnt people you would meet as you walk up the street! so much fun...

I couldn't beleive the amount of dogs at Sydney airport last time i flew in.

I remember when i first moved over, they asked if i had a criminal record before letting me in to Australia.

I said I didnt know i still needed one!

This post has much to do with nothing, but peace to you all!

[This message has been edited by Hyper-SpaceCowboy (edited 08 November 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Hyper-SpaceCowboy (edited 08 November 2001).]

[shroomy]

Originally posted by Hyper-SpaceCowboy:

I would love a sniffer dog of my own!

imagine the differnt people you would meet as you walk up the street! so much fun...

yes it was almost fun waiting for my brother to return. watching a train load of ppl walk past a dog and tyring to pick wich poor individual would be next. in the time i was there they got about 5 and they were a good cross section of society.

[gomaos]

It pisses me off...

Some young gung-ho cops...haven't experienced anything but their safe upbringing in conservative families, guided and protected right left bottom and top...they can just go out and harrass anyone with their fucken dogs...is this democracy? It's a fucken faschist state that's what it is...

[Wazron]

I believe that there any many plants which naturally foil dogs' ability to smell. Violets have this effect to a small degree, but there is a substance called ionone which can be extracted from violets which kills about 95% of a dog's ability to smell. It actually reduces the dog's ability to smell to about half that of a human's. Unsurprisingly, this is not common knowledge, but ionone is being increasingly used by the military and police to assist in the disruption of tracker dog teams, explosive sniffer dogs etc...

The effects last about 4 hours. Kind of freaks the dogs out for a while too. There is also a plant that grows in Texas/New Mexico/Mexico that has a similar effect on tracker dogs. You build an arm-thick bundle of it and jump all over it, then scatter it across your path. Buggered if I can remember what it is though.

Here's a story My Friend Karl likes to tell about his army days:

"Closest call I had with a sniffer dog was when I joined the Army and we got sniffered at the end of the first week of Infantry IET. Although I would never touch anything illegal, My Friend Bob happened to have a hash pipe that he happened to leave in one of my wet packs. I just didn't remember which one I'd brought with me. I fell in by my locker and sweated bullets for 30 mins until that lowdown shit of a dog and his trained sniffer canine arrived.

Either way, the dog didn't pick me (cause I hadn't brought Bob's little gift) but the guy over the other side of the lines from me had all his stuff pulled apart by Federal Police when the dog picked him.

Didn't find shit."

"Sniffer dogs! Who needs probable cause?"

If I could talk to the animals... I'd ask them to keep it quiet and offer them a cut

Waz

[Smiling Cloud]

Dogs lie pot. Last month I dreampt I was growing a marijuana plant I noticed that the leaves sticking out the netting were all chewed on. In the dream this coincided with my dog eating heaps and sleeping. In the dream I took him with me to water them and I watched him stick his snout in and eat them. Is that normal, or do Jack russels only eat it?

[Torsten]

Hey Al, is the DS2001 your fantasy or is this product available already??

I had this idea quite a few months ago and presented it to a few of the HEMP party people and hemp activists in Nimbin and Byron. Don't think they really understood any of it, so they didn't follow it up. Can't say they are the brightest sparks. The sticking point was that they couldn't understand that hemp essential oil had no THC in it I think.

basically, the essential oil is free of THC and can be used in the manner described. It is also entirely legal to import if purchased from a country where the manufacture of such oil is legal (switzerland). It costs about $30,000 per litre, but this would be equivalent to more than 1,000,000g (ie, 1000 kilos) of cannabis buds - enough to stink out the whole of sydney and north coast for a year.

My idea was to hang out in Byron and spray it on people (especially their shoes) from the chamber of commerce, council, church, pubs, and anyone who looks like they don't have any pot on them. The number of false readings and the resulting complaints (from upstanding citizens) to the premier would soon cause a change in policy.

Pity that potheads just can't get their heads around big ideas.

[Al]

Torsten, fantasy at this stage - but I am very keen to do something about it, its one of those things I feel just HAS to be tried.

So, I will dream soon of trying this (as I would not dream of breaking the law) with a VERY small ammount of biomass.

Great to see there are other thinking people that can see the possible results of such a product. Having produced it I think then its a matter of gaining 'critical mass' usage to tip the scales 'our way'.

Your idea of 'mass contact' is excellent - I hadn't thought of that.

Would love to hear if anyone produces/tries doing this (using it and hypothetically creating it / getting hold of some)

Also wazron said "there is a substance called ionone which can be extracted from violets which kills about 95% of a dog's ability to smell"

Thats very interesting too. I will look into this also - would it border on cruelty to try it on a pet (of course I woudn't do that if there is any chance of harm - I love animals (in a normal way!) - except for the misuse of sniffer dogs of course)

Does anyone have any furhter info on ionone?

What solvent would be most suitable for extraction? etc..

Keep the ball rollin'

Al.

[Ed Dunkel]

beta Ionone(4-[2,6,6-Trimethyl-1-cyclohexen-1-yl]-3-buten-2-one) . The alpha form has the double bond in a different possition on the ring.

Never knew it had an effect on a dog's smell sensors.

E D

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Al:

but I am very keen to do something about it, its one of those things I feel just HAS to be tried.

So, I will dream soon of trying this (as I would not dream of breaking the law) with a VERY small ammount of biomass.

To be certain that it is THC free, I recommend importing it from switzerland. It will cause attention with customs, but they will have to release it once it has been tested. Should only take a day or so. It definitely completely legal. This is what they use to flavour hemp beer, and as long as you don't import it for human consumption there are no limits. Just import it as a perfume ingredient.

Having produced it I think then its a matter of gaining 'critical mass' usage to tip the scales 'our way'.

the critical mass lies in the false readings. It needs to be used in places where the sniffers are likely to look for people in possession, but at the same time it needs to be used on people who are unlikely to have anything on their person. A National Party fundraiser in Lismore for example

Your idea of 'mass contact' is excellent - I hadn't thought of that.

doesn't have to be masses. If a dog triggers the search of 20 wrong positives in a day then I think that is already doing a lot of damage. Up in this area they like to go to large events, hang around shopping centres, trainstations, busses, etc etc. All places with plenty of people that are hanging around for a while. I also assume that the oil will be active for several weeks or maybe even months, which will increase the effct over time. Application could be via tiny water pistol with a dilute alcoholic water suspension/solution of tiny amounts of oil, however the lagal implicatios of this need to be checked out (may infringe on personal protection laws). I ma sure if plenty of thought is put into this there will be ideas that will make this more effective and easier to do.

Would love to hear if anyone produces/tries doing this (using it and hypothetically creating it / getting hold of some)

I have a source for the oil overseas. They are even willing to sell me 30ml, rather than a whole litre (can't afford the litre).

[Guest NOB]

Originally posted by Torsten:

I have a source for the oil overseas. They are even willing to sell me 30ml, rather than a whole litre (can't afford the litre).

Any idea how dilute that 30ml could be made and still be effective, what would be the ideal solvent?

[shroomy]

umm didn,t you mention spraying money bills with said substance and than just releasing them back to their natural enviroment(rich law makers)common ppl and general society. i imagine a twenty dollar bill would travel a fair distance in a day. hey one could even end up in dog handlers pocket .

[Al]

OK this is sounding more reality than fantasy now

1. This stuff needs a friendly name ('essential oil of cannabis' is too heavy for me) How about 'Freedom' ? (kind of an Orwellian twist)

Any name suggestions appreciated.

2. Getting Freedom. Torsten would you buy the 30mL (=$900 ?) Would you (please) sell some / accept payment in advance to assist purchase?

3.Preparing Freedom (ie NOB's question)

Any ideas on dilution? The extreme sensitivity to smell should work in our favor (for once) as we should be able to dilute Freedom heavily and remain effective, yes?

Ball-park figure? 1:1000, 1:10000, more maybe??

4.Testing Freedom.

Anyone got any ideas for testing Freedom without risk - ie, be in a position to see the results without undue attention? Like where are sniffer dogs posted regularly?

Maybe one of those nightclubs that use them? (wherever thay are)

5.Realtime use

All being well, a co-ordinated "deodorization campaign" in a regularly frequented area (I guess the obvious Nimbin/Byron main streets?)

This sounds pretty damn hot.

Maybe the people really can strike back.

Keep it rollin'

Al.

PS Silly stuff

What if the sniffer dog were sprayed? Would it sit next to itself, look at its handler and itself? Or would it begin eating its own body from the tail?

Or even better, if the handler were sprayed, would the dog 'roll-over' (literally and metaphorically) on its handler? Headlines: "Police sniffer dog handler busted by own dog"

I love it.

[waterdragon]

before ye all get carried away handing over the big dollars for essential oil, why not do a vodka extraction on the real thing? if it's only going on other people, train seats, money etc then it must be cheaper to just manufacture an australian product with the essential oil in it(and some thc) but it would have to be cheaper than importing even if u gotta buy some buds.