Brewing Syrian Rue with other herbs

[endorfinder]

Move it to chemistry and pharmacology, scarecrow, or check somewhere like dmt nexus that encourages such talk. Discussion of not-exactly-legal actives is discouraged here.

Harmala alkaloids are alcohol soluble is the short answer.

[endorfinder]

Oh and some of the things I listed as interesting to combine as well as yohimbe are VERY VERY risky, particularly iboga and voacanga. Reminding everybody this is a thread reporting experimental bioassays, NOT a how-to guide.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Sorry for the late reply, I have been fairy caught up elsewhere.

I ended up trying 1 level teaspoon of rue with a double shot of organic coffee 6pm satdy night. I shot the rue first (boiled for 3 minutes with half a lemon) followed by the double shot 15mins later.

I honestly only felt the effects separately from each component and never got any synergies or potentiation from the combo (possibly as PH pointed out...). Roopey is far more "tuned in" than I am so I am not ruling anything out, but I think the synergies and effects will happen from a more vast array of herbs and stimulants. I will be picking this book up again next spring when I can experiment with my own material.

D00d

Edited April 8, 2013 by thed00dabides

[endorfinder]

What about comparing strong black tea with pure caffeine tabs?

[SkyWalker]

Syrian Rue can be made into a freebase, but adding it to changa is a little superfluous, MAOI's like harmaline are used to bypass the initial metabolism deamer undergoes upon ingestion, when changa is inhaled however it takes around 10 seconds i believe to penetrate the barriers in between your lungs and your circulatory system, making harmaline a bit pointless in this instence, keep thinking tough mate, inovation is the key to success

[Scarecrow]

Move it to chemistry and pharmacology, scarecrow, or check somewhere like dmt nexus that encourages such talk. Discussion of not-exactly-legal actives is discouraged here.

Harmala alkaloids are alcohol soluble is the short answer.

Right, I shouldn't be hijacking threads anyway. But thanks for the answer!

 

Syrian Rue can be made into a freebase, but adding it to changa is a little superfluous, MAOI's like harmaline are used to bypass the initial metabolism deamer undergoes upon ingestion, when changa is inhaled however it takes around 10 seconds i believe to penetrate the barriers in between your lungs and your circulatory system, making harmaline a bit pointless in this instence, keep thinking tough mate, inovation is the key to success

Hmm, interesting. But I've read that the addition of MAOIs to the blend can extend the duration of the experience..?

But I'll leave it at that, and make another for more detailed discussion later on (closer to the time in which SWIM starts experimenting).

[Torsten]

Syrian Rue can be made into a freebase, but adding it to changa is a little superfluous, MAOI's like harmaline are used to bypass the initial metabolism deamer undergoes upon ingestion, when changa is inhaled however it takes around 10 seconds i believe to penetrate the barriers in between your lungs and your circulatory system, making harmaline a bit pointless in this instence, keep thinking tough mate, inovation is the key to success

This post shows a lack of practical experience and understanding of the pharmacology involved, and maybe you should stop critiquing other people's ideas if you don't actually have a good grasp of the topic yourself [i've already had to delete a similar attack elsewhere, so if you were hoping to get noticed then you have scored].

"Adding it to changa is superfluous"? well, if it wasn't added to it then it wouldn't be changa, cos that's what changa is. Changa has been around for quite a few years and is far more popular than crystal dmt because of the extending effect the MAOI has when consumed this way. The piaroa shaman of venezuela also value minor MAO inhibition before snuff inhalation for the same reasons.

The pharmacology is simple. MAO is not only present in the gut but also in the brain and other tissues. partially inhibiting this MAO allows for a reduced tryptamine dosage with a more mellow effect.

I personally dislike changa, but it would be foolish to deny the distinct differences in effect.

[Torsten]

I can't find the post, but I do recall that Torsten had some sort of bad experience when combining MAO inihibition with Yohimbe (years ago), so maybe proceed with (more) caution.

yep, one of the two times in my life I thought I was going to die from drugs and felt so bad i was actually hoping it would happen quickly. Rue and yohimbe is not safe at any effective dosage. I had started with very small amounts and even that was too much.

There still seems to be a lot of misconception about stimulants and MAOI though. Rue and caapi are both MAOa inhibitors. Adrenaline is not metabolised by MAOa. Serotonin is the main danger with MAOI synergy. Tyramine is also not a problem because it is metabolised by both a and b, so as long as you still have one you're fine. Dopamine is also metabolised by MAOa, but inhibition does not appear to cause any major problems, so presumably there are other pathways for dopamine to be metabolised. For most people [unless they have other enzyme deficiencies] it is probably quite safe to take non-serotonergic amphetamines [eg meth] while MAOa inhibited. Ephedrine is also quite safe - even pleasant. Melatonin is trippy. There is an old post here somewhere with a list of all the things I tried while MAO inhibited. Those experiments were the basis of the rewrite of the MAOI FAQ in the late 90's from its multipage irrelevant drivel to the more concise serotonin focus. eg MDMA, DXM, 2CB and many other serotonin agonists are easily fatal.

[Yeti101]

Will have to dig up that old post re MAO inhibition with various other things.

Melatonin + MAOI sounds interesting.

[planthelper]

Will have to dig up that old post re MAO inhibition with various other things.

Melatonin + MAOI sounds interesting.

be carefull, an experienced member told me once, he was very scared of this combo, and would NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

[Yeti101]

Don't worry, I was thinking ultra-low doses and possibly taken by someone much braver than me ;)

[Roopey]

Ok, so now with some extra research, thank you T for your input, I've basically figured out that really I'm just inhibiting myself further with the stimulants. It almost seems like if you have rue, mate, and gaurana, that you can have other things with much higher effects, for instance, smoking Hbwr leaves and feeling very interesting.

Edit: I must have gotten confused somewhere down the line, because I could have sworn I came across catechin in my searching about coffee, but I was mistaken. It seems coffee, in addition to caffeine, has harmane and some other similar alks already. So adding rue increases your inhibition, and the caffeine can act more on your system then with just coffee, although not much more from my experience. Well, not at the doses I'm taking at least.

I'm thinking Yerba mate has added inhibition in it as well as multiple forms of caffeine, making it much, much better when mixed with rue. I also tried green tea yesterday with modest results.

The strong inhibiting brew is really only the start though, now I'm going to start adding relatively safe plants and see what happens, ie, dagga, lotus, gotu kola.

I think I'm going to have to do some more research, both on and offline.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Roopey

[endorfinder]

The melatonin has me intrigued. I took it nightly (4-6mg SR cirdadin) for months with little to no effect. I'd be willing to bioassay starting with minute doses, I think I still have some tabs around somewhere (although crushing them might be a plan).

[Yeti101]

It might be worth testing the dagga/MAO inhibitor (caapi leaf?) combo via smoking as a comparison to the oral ingestion method.

I'm reading an article right now about a newer analysis of dagga which suggests that various constituents bind to a wider range of receptors than I thought including: 5HT1A and 3, D1, M3 and Sigma 1 (the rest of that particular article might be worth a thread of its own somewhere separate) . So maybe there is something going on.

[Scarecrow]

Yesterday during the day I had ~2 grams Rue tea, and tried mixing it with a few things later that night. It was by no means a clean experiment as I kind of ended up trying everything out at once, but I think it might be relevant to mention my experience. On just the Rue, I felt very relaxed and meditative, mind was quiet etc. It was a very nice state to be in. Had some mild stomach discomfort towards the start, but that went away fairly quickly. Later on, I started adding other things to the mix. Things consumed/smoked were: some gin, some Lion's Tail some White Lotus, and some Passionflower. Some cannabis may or may not have been involved also.

I'm pretty sure at least one of these ingredients had a bad reaction to the rue, and at the same time at least one of these ingredients was giving me psychedelic effects.

Towards the end of the night, while I was already feeling very relaxed and stoned, I had one last cone that started giving me physical symptoms. Blood didn't seem to be flowing properly, felt kind of faint, muscles felt really sore; tired but tense at the same time. Twitchy, too. I also suddenly had tons of phlegm blocking up my tubes, and i felt like my heart was struggling a bit also. I lay down for a bit and gave myself a bit of a massage and some acupressure, and felt better after about an hour.

During that time I noticed that I seemed to be tripping out a little also. I was getting some of the usual clues like slightly distorted depth perception, and some fairly clear closed eye visuals. This could have been enjoyable if I weren't in pain and a little worried about my condition, but it was interesting to note.

Feeling reasonably fine this morning (pain is gone, everything seems to be working normally) but I have a bit of a hangover of some sorts.

I'm not sure what exactly caused the negative reaction, and I'm not sure what exactly caused me to start tripping out, but I figured this might be encouraging, but a warning also.

[edit]

I've done some research and my symptoms look like they may have been from some mild serotonin syndrome(?)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Scarecrow

[Yeti101]

It was by no means a clean experiment

Just slightly

[Roopey]

So, I finally got around to brewing rue and dagga again today, and there is definitely magic going on here.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Great news

[glimpse]

perhaps muccuna pruriens and rue would be interesting.

I did read elsewhere of muccuna/cappi tea but it was pretty large amounts of each so maybe/maybe not