Hybrids

[Stillman]

Loving creating hybrids with ornamental cacti. wether its for interesting looking plant or for an awesome flower. I'm working on a few cool crosses of late have been grafting seedlings furiously to fast track their development.

Obviously Astrophytum are an excellent starting point also Gymnocalycium. But I also have a nice Lobivia cross going which I will start grafting in the next day or so. So anyway I know a few peeps here are keen to mess around with this sort of thing, and thought maybe we could use this thread as a a free trade point for crosses or unusual ornamental hybrids. I will have a few seeds in a couple weeks that I will be giving away here. Some Gymno and some Astrophytum, on the condition that they are grafted to peres. Its like a free swing, the seeds cost nothing so if you lose some in grafting your still ahead.

Anyway just an idea

Will add some photos as time goes on.

[bogfrog]

Great idea.

I have been wondering lately about trying to cross rebutia sp. with sulcorebutia sp. I'm unsure if it will work but i have a few buds coming up to try it out.

I also have been inadvertadly creating turbinacarpus hybrid seed, and i tried a nice 2 way astrophytum cross, but sadly i knocked the pollenated buds off one plant and my partner knocked the buds off the other.

As the greenhouse gets progressively more cramped, we get progressively more clumsy lol.

[endorfinder]

Stillman I'd be in for that. I might need more pere stock in the months to come though.. lots of seedlings growing. Noticed new lophs growing after 5 days last night!

[Optimystic]

Im hoping to cross some ariocarpus fissuratus with ariocarpus confusus by the end of the year... if they'll flower as fast... just got my hands on the confusus seeds.. also got some lophophoroides but im not sure if Turbinicarpus will cross with ariocarpus... the turbinicarpus seeds are certainly tinier...

if they do they'll be my first cactus flowers

My first go with astrophytum yielded no seedlings but I sat on the seeds an entire year so probably my screwup

[bogfrog]

Is it just a myth that turbinacarpus lophophoroides can hybridise with lophophora?

[Stillman]

Interesting I'm not sure but I have read heaps of contradictory readings.

I imagine from the flower structure at some point they may have been capable? I'd pm K.T and ask him if anyone knows he might.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Stillman

[Jox]

I have heard that cross is possible & I have read that's how some people think L.jordina might of come about?

[bogfrog]

Interesting, i will give it a go when the stars align.

Jox, sorry bro i knocked of all the astro buds so no 3 rib hybrid seed yet but there are two more buds slowly growing so i'll cross it with every astro available and make sure i get some seed to you when it eventuates.

[planthelper]

this thread, might be helpfull aswell.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29197&hl=interbreeding

[zelly]

Stillman, here's a darn good place to start:

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/N40/turgym-e.htm

And ya'll might want to take a look at this link........

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/list-e.htm

[Stillman]

Heres a question, how does one go about having a hybrid recognised and named, is it simply a matter of producing numerous genetic clones of an out standing plant, or is there a body / agency that acknowledges this thorough a process of requirements? I have a few interesting crosses that I think will produce some very interesting plants to collectors of flowering cacti. I Would like to name them and have them recognised as a legitimate planned hybrid not an accident (if they are up to that standard). I guess thats a bit of an arrogant take on the project but a a fair bit of effort goes into some of these crosses, if something really nice is produced it would be nice to try and have it recognised in some respect.

[Jox]

Can't help with an answer, but Gymnocalycium spp cv Stillmanii sounds pretty cool

[planthelper]

Im hoping to cross some ariocarpus fissuratus with ariocarpus confusus by the end of the year... if they'll flower as fast... just got my hands on the confusus seeds.. also got some lophophoroides but im not sure if Turbinicarpus will cross with ariocarpus... the turbinicarpus seeds are certainly tinier...

if they do they'll be my first cactus flowers

My first go with astrophytum yielded no seedlings but I sat on the seeds an entire year so probably my screwup

the fissuratus is a very slow grower, even a graft is only an eighth of the size, a loph would have achived, in the same time.

and about your seeding issues, a person here told us, many seeds which don't want to sprout, will sprout if, you expose them to the direct sun for 2 or 3 day's, maybe longer.

Heres a question, how does one go about having a hybrid recognised and named, is it simply a matter of producing numerous genetic clones of an out standing plant, or is there a body / agency that acknowledges this thorough a process of requirements? I have a few interesting crosses that I think will produce some very interesting plants to collectors of flowering cacti. I Would like to name them and have them recognised as a legitimate planned hybrid not an accident (if they are up to that standard). I guess thats a bit of an arrogant take on the project but a a fair bit of effort goes into some of these crosses, if something really nice is produced it would be nice to try and have it recognised in some respect.

imagen, you want to stabilise a new hybreed, by inbreeding, like it's done with most other new seeds.

one life time would not be enough, it would become a future generations project, hehehe.

Edited February 17, 2013 by planthelper

[modernshaman]

The hybrid would be the name of the two cacti combined with an X in the beginning to show its a hybrid.

Look at the "X Ferobergia"

Heres a wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29#Examples_of_plant_hybrids

Edited February 18, 2013 by modernshaman

[Stillman]

Yeah I get that and I'm not trying to stabilise the plant, just working out how Cv ie cultivars are named, is there an organisation that records this, or is it done in nurseries from a purely trademark (financially motivated reasons)

For example the Paramount Echinopsis hybrids. How have they been recognised universally? Was it a simple mater of trademark or is there a botanical process?

[modernshaman]

I believe that hybrids are different than cultivars but Im unsure. I think your right that this is done by nurseries as a form of trademarking/recognition. I think it just becomes accepted once that clone becomes recognized or as the cactus clone spreads physically. I would think that an organization would only be needed to record/document it in cases of reporting and naming a new species... again I could be completely wrong.

http://www.cactus-art.biz/note-book/Dictionary/Dictionary_C/dictionary_cultivar.htm

Edited February 19, 2013 by modernshaman

[Stillman]

I had an interesting chat with a friend, Neil Smith of the Hippy Seed co today. We have discussed this at lengths, due to the fact so many different names are given to identicle plant do to marketing or lack of care causing confusion etc (obviously this also happens in the Trichocereus clone trade).

Neil actually had a person approach him to do a gene study and find out the origin of some of the super hots. Most were natural hybrids or created Hybrids Some where extremely unstable some had dominant traits but where still fairly unstable.

So I guess it happens in alot of Horticulture industry.

I was curious I thought maybe somewhere in Eastern Europe there might have been a register I could have applied to for name recognition. Mostly for a laugh I get a kick of that sort of thing.

And for the record A Hybrid can definitely be a cultivar Cultivars don't necesarily have to be stable genetically. In actual fact developed hybridisation of plants is responsible for a the lions share of our ornamental and crop industries. Its when the accidental mutations pop up that is when it gets interesting, not necessarily expected but none the less we claim them.

[Evil Genius]

There are certain registers for some family names. Like for example the ones from the Epiphyllum Society, one from the Schlumbergera Society and so on. The german Echinopsis Workgroup is working on a Register for the Echinopsis Hybrids as well.

[Optimystic]

the fissuratus is a very slow grower, even a graft is only an eighth of the size, a loph would have achived, in the same time.

and about your seeding issues, a person here told us, many seeds which don't want to sprout, will sprout if, you expose them to the direct sun for 2 or 3 day's, maybe longer.

Thanks a bunch for the tip planthelper, regarding the seeds... I still have them in their bowls but I cleared them out of the way for some new sews... I would try it however its supposed to just above freezing here at night the next couple days and im short on windowsill space lol as soon as it warms up i'll remoisten and put them outside and see tho... our last frost date is in about 3 weeks but that doesnt' mean it will be warm enough though I can probably start putting some plants out soon and have more window space...

also I realize ariocarpus grow slowly... I did however find a thread that followed the results of an ariocarpus graft from graft date to flower was about 14 months... it probably won't happen in a year that was wishful thinking but perhaps by middle of next year... My fissuratus grafts are about 6 weeks or so and are putting out their 3rd sets of tufts/tubercles, and I already have my first confusus sprout which I just discovered last night...