Getafix Posted August 28, 2012 Hey all, I have two Knuthianus growing, well at least I think I do! I bought one of these cuttings and was kindly given the other. One has much longer central spines than the then other but they share many identical characteristics. See below photo's of the two cuttings.One is a little dehydrated, they have only just rooted. Is this normal variation or do you think one has a bit of something else in it? I have never grown these before and don't know much about them, what's there origin, are they Peru's? Thanks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IndianDreaming Posted August 28, 2012 PMSL - I love the name of those - sorry, I'm no help with your question, but cudos' for making me piss myself laughing at the little things in life 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getafix Posted August 28, 2012 Now you got me laughing, yeah Interesting name.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 28, 2012 Hi getafix, yes they are pretty much the same. Spine size is being influenced greatly by many things like the enviroment, fertilisation and such. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getafix Posted August 28, 2012 Hi getafix, yes they are pretty much the same. Spine size is being influenced greatly by many things like the enviroment, fertilisation and such. Okay, thanks. They are beautiful plants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 28, 2012 Totally agree. I love Knuthianus. It looks like you could beat an nightly intruder to death with it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getafix Posted August 28, 2012 Totally agree. I love Knuthianus. It looks like you could beat an nightly intruder to death with it. Yes there is a certain medieval type club likeness to this cacti!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted August 29, 2012 Hi getafix, yes they are pretty much the same. The first one looks very cuzo-oid to me, despite the 'knobliness' that is more of a knuthianus trait. I actually have a hard time with differentiating some knuthianus and cuzcoensis. In fact, several years ago people tended to commonly ID knuthianus as cuzcoensis, and it is only in recent years that they seem to be consistently identified amongst the ethnobotany community as distinct species. They are clearly on the same spectrum. There are plants that I could say are definitely cuzcoensis, and plants that I could say are definitely knuthianus (like the second one here), but there are ones that have too many traits of both for me to be able to put it into one category or the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shruman Posted August 29, 2012 I think its a bit early & the photos are not great at helping to make a difinitive answer yet. I think like zac you could very well have a knuthianus & a cuzco but think the 1st might be cuzco & the second maybe knuthianus there but also agree with EG that spine length & other defining characteristics can be very much dependent on environmental factors. Pics 1,2,3 & 7 are the 1st plant yeah? and it is only in recent years that they seem to be consistently identified amongst the ethnobotany community as distinct species. Probly just the natural evolution of our understanding? "There are plants that I could say are definitely cuzcoensis, and plants that I could say are definitely knuthianus (like the second one here), but there are ones that have too many traits of both for me to be able to put it into one category or the other." Well there are other categories that share alot of the same charcteistics & do seem to indeed be in between these forms like tarmaensis & schoenii among others. There does seem to be a good grouping of very closely related plants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtarman Posted August 29, 2012 Love the geometry of these ones, very undulating and trippy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cactus kate Posted August 29, 2012 wicked plant any of those seeds shruman like that plant cheers kate would love to have that beauty in the collection one day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shruman Posted August 29, 2012 I have some bigger plants of knuthianus but they have not flowered for me yet I also hve a cuzco but its not quite as big, seem to be a bit more reluctant than some of the other Trichos to get to flower but I keep my fingers x'd, you guys will be the 1st to know if I do though, Thanks Kate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys, i see why people put knuthianus under cuzcoensis. In fact, they are related to each other and Friedrich Ritter whom i consider one of the greatest field experts ever lived said that Knuthianus is probably a variety of cuzcoensis. There is no doubt about this and i totally agree. But there are differences that justify keeping the name in this community. It makes it possible to trace back very old descriptions in the future. If we get rid of the older callnames, it wont be possible to say what people where looking at when they wrote their cactus books in the 50s or 60s. Taxonomically, the name probably wouldnt stand though. But the moment you merge Knuthianus into cuzcoensis using modern taxonomy, you´ll have to merge Cuzcoensis into Peruvianus as well. A very old Knuthianus gets a very round, treelike log. A typical cuzcoensis is said not to get such a round log. Flowers of knuthianus will probably be the same as Cuzcoensis. I am personally pretty sure that both are knuthianus type as it has a very distinct rib shape and spine arrangement, including less pronounced dots on the spine base but i am also very comfortable with them or one of them being called cuzcoensis. Because thats what they taxonomically are. The differences that Ritter described dont justify a new species. He really liked naming new species. ;) bye Eg Edited August 29, 2012 by Evil Genius 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getafix Posted August 29, 2012 I think its a bit early & the photos are not great at helping to make a difinitive answer yet. I think like zac you could very well have a knuthianus & a cuzco but think the 1st might be cuzco & the second maybe knuthianus there but also agree with EG that spine length & other defining characteristics can be very much dependent on environmental factors. Pics 1,2,3 & 7 are the 1st plant yeah? and it is only in recent years that they seem to be consistently identified amongst the ethnobotany community as distinct species. Probly just the natural evolution of our understanding? "There are plants that I could say are definitely cuzcoensis, and plants that I could say are definitely knuthianus (like the second one here), but there are ones that have too many traits of both for me to be able to put it into one category or the other." Well there are other categories that share alot of the same charcteistics & do seem to indeed be in between these forms like tarmaensis & schoenii among others. There does seem to be a good grouping of very closely related plants. Yes 1,2,3 and 7 are the same plant. 4,5 and 6 are the second plant with the longer spines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getafix Posted August 29, 2012 wicked plant any of those seeds shruman like that plant cheers kate would love to have that beauty in the collection one day Hey Cactus Kate, more than happy to send you a cutting of the short spined plant which I think everyone agrees is Knuthianus as I have another one of these as well. If you are happy to wait for a month (just to let it's roots grow) or so I can send you a tip cutting. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M S Smith Posted December 21, 2012 Found these lovely photos of a plant at the Felixstow Succulent Garden and though I'd share. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted December 21, 2012 A lot of people treat this as a second rate plant but it has always been one of my favorites. When you see photos of knuthianus they always seem to look healthy where a lot of others tend to yellow and look sickly when grown in full sun and not fed regularly. Cheers Got 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lhb2444 Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I recently scored some cuts off here and I must say they've always looked nice in the pictures but seeing them in person, wow! Definitely one of my favorite looking columns, hands down!! Mine are definitely along the lines of the longer spined variant in the original post. Edited December 21, 2012 by lhb2444 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
