Hip Hop is universal - Defiance from Adelaide

[Joshie]

Defiance is a rapper from the South side of Adelaide. His style is original, incorporating sprirituality and realism into what can only be

described as a life journey. His sound grows on you. He will be dropping an album this year or next. If you would like to hear his music

go to his page on Facebook. Most of his songs are available as *** FREE DOWNLOADS *** through ReverbNation for now so JUMP IN !!!

DEFIANCE is the anti-virus in his own words to the demons live in us, through our egos, surrounding and looming around us.

Go and Get Yourself a Download While You Can and Enjoy.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Joshie

[Sallubrious]

Hey Joshie

Your title for this thread really got my attention

Hip hop is universal

I'm an old fart so I suppose I'm out of touch, but is it really really universal ?

Australian hip hop just sounds wrong to me, the accent just doesn't seem to do it any justice. To me it sounds like a Swedish bloke singing rastafarian protest music - reggae

Don't get me wrong I know there are some quality artists expressing their views through this medium and a lot of it is very poetic, some of the aussie stuff is much deeper and more meaningful than some of the commercial crap from OS, but I just can't get in to it.

Sell me on it man

Give me a link to something that strikes a chord in you.

[space cadet swami]

^^^sorry Joshie I've got to run with SallyD on this one, I have the "old fart" syndrome as well. Maybe not the "old fart" syndrome per say, but definitely the "balding, middle aged, well on the way" syndrome...lol.

I, like so many others, are trapped in the loop of their youth...if you could post a link, it would definitely work in ur favour. I'm happy as long as there is some musicians playing musical instruments..@ least one anyway..that's my issue with techno, show me a muso.

And the rant begins...You c the concept is -

Music=musician=musical instrument .... not computer.

MIDI=Musical Instrument Digital Interface. You don't need a musical instrument to program a MIDI.

Hence MIDI=sound technician/audio engineer NOT MUSICIAN!!!

http://en.wikipedia....dio_engineering

Just a theory I have...

Now I'm sure, that'll get a few rants happening...c'mon guys, I can't hear you...

EDIT: I just looked @ SallyD's profile & as it turns out I'm 6mths older....shit, that means I'm an "old fart" then...shit, shit, big steaming SHIT!!

Edited April 27, 2012 by space cadet 101

[Bush Turkey]

Music=musician=musical instrument .... not computer.

 

really? thats your view? i have this conflict with my brother in law (he drums for Julian lennon)

i gave him my laptop with fruity loops up and told hime to make music, he couldnt.

all drummers do is the beat, while you can create a whole song on fruity loops.

hip hop and r&b are my most hated genre's

Edit: sounded to harsh

Edited April 28, 2012 by Bush Turkey

[OPP]

Does a singer not count as a musician?

As for quality Australian hip hop there is plenty out there. Hopefully you can get over the accent.

Check out Mantra. Awesome flow and deep lyrics. One of the best.

 

[Sallubrious]

Does a singer not count as a musician?

 

I don't know but from my perspective if a singer uses his voice as an instrument then I'd say yes.

That song you posted wasn't bad, I really appreciate the poetry and verbal skills of hip hop, but most of it sounds like Eminem from 8 mile to me.

It all seems to have the same cadence and delivery. Like I said before the Aussie stuff seems deeper and to me it it seems more creative, but it feels like it's following the same repetitive rules as the stuff from OS.

Are there unwritten rules about hip hop where it has to follow a certain format ?

I remember when Grand Master Flash came on the scene (really showing my age now) with his hip-hop/rap ? it really broke new ground (as music should from time to time) it was a real shock to the system and affront to the senses that made people sit up take notice. It had a powerful message about the struggles of life for lower classes in the US and it really broke new ground.

After that rap went pop and then a few gangstas moved in and it had a real dark period and then the record companies reigned it in & it seemed to have settled into a midfield half protest half pop culture sort of feel to appeal to a broad audience.

For hip hop to appeal to me I feel needs some sort musical interlude or some other tried and tested musical device - harmony, melody singing in rounds etc (the options are almost infinite, indigenous, classical, jass or rock and roll etc) to punctuate the poetry.

Hip hop almost always seems to have a gripe or something to whinge about, which let's face it once you get past your mid thirties you've heard way too much whinging and really just tune out when someone starts (I don't deny the that the songs have valid,important points of contention but when you're surrounded by a house full of whinging screaming kidsall day another one on the radio is one too many) bitching .

Can a hip hop song celebrate life ?

Can hip hop give me a feel good vibe and lift my spirits ?

All that said I love blues music from time to time so maybe I'm taking it all out of context.

I don't hate hip hop, I just can't get in to it.

Maybe if someone does the right hybrid format like Run DMC and Aerosmith I'd appreciate it more.

C'mon Joshie you started all of this, we're not putting you down, we just want to see where you're coming from man.

[space cadet swami]

Does a singer not count as a musician?

 

I think to b considered a musician u need to understand some basic rudimentary music...eg notes, chords, chord infrastructure & music infrastructure.

A lot of the gooses that I know that play guitar, consider a power chord to b a chord, when in actuality a minimum of 3 notes are needed to form a chord otherwise ur playing a couplet.

If the singer understood these elements & could apply them vocally...eg singing a 5th or a 3rd harmony, then that singer theoretically could be classed as a musician.

When referring to a singer who is singing, the term is lead vocal & not lead instrument, even though a voice in music is classed as an instrument.

But...a guitarist who plays say, a major chord & doesn't understand that they are playing the 1st, 3rd & 5th notes out of the relative pentatonic scale, to me they aren't in truth a musician. They've learnt to play parrot style. If someone traces does that make them an artist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musician

I suppose @ the end of the day the interpretation of such terms is relative to the individuals understanding of these terms.

Long live Stevie Ray Vaughan...

Take what u will & leave what u want....it's all about individual interpretation.

Peace my brothers & sisters.

[sapito]

I think to b considered a musician u need to understand some basic rudimentary music...eg notes, chords, chord infrastructure & music infrastructure.

 

That seems to be a very limiting concept of a musician. There are many people that have no music theory knowledge yet are amazing and succesful musicians. The other side is someone can know and understand all those things you mention yet are not able to write a good song. I find it hard to understand thow someone that makes music that has an impact on others is not a musician simply because they cant use music theory to explain what they are doing or why they are doing it.

Your comparisson to an artist tracing is not quite fair. Tracing would be more like covering songs and not being able to write anything original wouldnt it?

Some really powerful music has been written by people that had no teacher and no understanding of music theory

[Joshie]

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reverbnation.com%2Fc.%2Fponi%2F57786188&h=HAQE9vvVgAQGmwVkABNTq8xK8q-PCT4wvR93BeIVItqPvYw

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reverbnation.com%2Fartist%2Ffb_share%2F1571653&h=WAQEd0B-EAQGCTjeSKUt_Yu78buhpfOy17nPtyPJyY6Nd8A

There are two links to 'Gone for Good', a mellow song about life. Music is Universal would have made a better title

for my post. I love all the passionate responses. I agree with alot of what people had to say. Singing the Cat in the

Hat really fast would not make somebody a musician. A blood spatter is not art no matter how many people can see this or

that! Defiance is a talented musician, a guitar player, songwriter, singer, the list goes on. He records using instruments

and then mixing and mastering, same as any other band these days. I hear you, people, gangster rap is not real music, it is

like a recruitment drive, it is still a form of expression. I do not like the way that alot of hip hop glorifies the evil in

the world. Defiance is a wise man, using music as a medium to be able to express his ideas about love and expression of ego and

the chasm in between. I hope I have posted the links correctly.

I could not upload the songs as the file size was too large.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reverbnation.com%2Fartist%2Ffb_share%2F1571653&h=RAQFZ1Qd7AQGyZFIixmWlvOP__ocdMLoAK8nQW61OufWoMg

That is a link to a song called 'Self Worth'

I hope you all enjoy! I certainly love this music.

[Joshie]

Truth be told, music is an art, a gift, a talent. True music has life, it has shape, depth, form, a living memory of emotion. A musician cannot be compared to an artist as

a tree cannot be compared to a mountain. The origins of hip hop begin in a murky place of old, we cannot go back there, the BOOM of the African drums, the Indian

storyteller, we cannot replicate the smell of a fire as much as we seek to evoke it. Hip Hop is definitely a blend, old with new, rage on a page repeated. Aren't all new

devices evolved expressions of old, complicated and translated into todays hype? "Toy Soldiers" by Eminem uses the classic melody of a Martika song who herself,

probably without even knowing it, uses the classical tune of one of the great composers of antiquity (I cannot remember which symphony it is taken from, it is eluding

my mind for now, so I will not look so I may find it when necessary!). The Beatles, as original a band as any, took ideas from everywhere as is illustrated on the cover

of the Sergeant Peppers album. Rap music, the best kind, takes the best of all musical techniques and tells important life stories. This is what hip hop is to me, the

story-teller, the mystic, the shaman telling their stories of life next to the hot fire with the beat of the African drum in the background. Not all rappers aspire to this, alot,

probably most, are content to settle for singing what they are told will be popular, this is when rap is pop, not just because it is popular.

Peace.

Joshie.

[space cadet swami]

That seems to be a very limiting concept of a musician. There are many people that have no music theory knowledge yet are amazing and succesful musicians. The other side is someone can know and understand all those things you mention yet are not able to write a good song. I find it hard to understand thow someone that makes music that has an impact on others is not a musician simply because they cant use music theory to explain what they are doing or why they are doing it.

Your comparisson to an artist tracing is not quite fair. Tracing would be more like covering songs and not being able to write anything original wouldnt it?

Some really powerful music has been written by people that had no teacher and no understanding of music theory

 

Without knowing the chord that ur playing how can anyone write it down & compose a song...or do they just say "here put this finger here & that finger there"

Music does have structure, songs are structured around chord progressions. For anyone to write a song using a musical instrument, they need a basic understanding of the concept, or, they need computer software to do it for them e.g. band in a box.

You are right in saying that there are people who understand the ins & outs of music theory, but yet can't write a decent song. But yet others who SEEM to have no theoretical knowledge, can write a decent song. But, you wouldn't want to bet ur last dollar on the fact that they have no musical knowledge at all. They would understand what a chord progression is. It just wouldn't b possible not to.

Once again. The interpretation is in the eye of the beholder.

Also some references would be good to bolster ur argument.

Peace...

[Chef's Foreskin]

can i say hiphop can suck my left nut? make a song... make an actual song

[Sallubrious]

can i say hiphop can suck my left nut? make a song... make an actual song

 

That's a bit harsh, isn't it.

I can't get into myself, but I can't dismiss it so easily, I did listen to some of the music that Joshie posted links to but they didn't really do much for me.

I suppose it's a bit like Wagner's compositions, many people hate them, maybe you need to have a Wagner receptor for it to strike a chord in you.

I'm sure I don't have a hip hop receptor either.

I don't really like jazz either, but without jazz we possibly never would of had rock and roll.

Edited April 30, 2012 by SallyD

[chnt]

haven't read every post yet but...

fairy and chnt both have their youths and are both very averse to aussie hip hop. i like some hip/hop rap, particularly the OGs like NWA and ice t, then some related genres such as trip hop, glitch hop, and others...

my deal with aussie hip hop... their accents couldn't suck any more if they tried, the dudes are like "the cool dudes in high school with attitude" that haven't grown out of that phase... the music is very cliche and predictable... the same half dozen accents found throughout the hundreds and thousands of artists... the male rapping verses juxtapose with female singing choruses... the chipmunk samples (can you be any more fucking cheesy?), perhaps the worst/lamest part of all, the last bar of the verse when they cut out all the music and just have the rapping on its own... cant be fucked talking about it any more.

as for musicians only being musicians if they play "musical instruments", bullshit... this is a very limited and ignorant view. what is music? what is a musical instrument?

music is a form of art, art is anything that you want it to be, musical instruments are any tool/medium that can be used to create music. basically anything can be a musical instrument, before guitars/violins/pianos/trumpets/etc were invented people still made music, before any stringed or percussion or wind instruments were invented, people still made music. through time musical instruments evolved, when bob dylan first went electric, many people went insane, the electric guitar is so normalised now, but back then many people would have had the opinion that it was not a musical instrument. as evolution takes place, many people take issue or are afraid of change, the evolution of music is no different. an artist is limited by their tools, and looking at it in this way, all of the archaic instruments are severely limited compared to more modern hardware and software, these instruments have many more possibilities, but still are limited. all instruments have their place, i am certainly not saying that archaic instruments are bad, but consider that the way you may feel about modern hardware and software, people in that past have felt the same way about the electric guitar.

yes there is some terrible "techno" but there is also some amazing electronic music that is made by very talented artists, in the same way that there is guitar/drums/etc music that is very good, and much that is very bad.

like this

 

 

versus this

 

 

Edited June 19, 2012 by chnt

[qualia]

does the juice news count as ozzie hiphop?

if so then yay, if you're restricting your idea of ozzie hip hop to hill top hoods then not so good,

best ozzie hip hop song evAR

 

[space cadet swami]

is that it....come on guys, I'm sure u can do better if u really try...

At the end of the day "It's all just a matter of opinion", how dull the world would b if we all thought the same..

[noshiewa]

i like to think all music is universal thats whats awsome bout it.

[Zen Peddler]

I wont contribute to this thread becayse I have nothing positive to say...