Time for Australia to abandon "failed war on drugs"

[Marklar]

Yeah good point and probably the most relevent case, i still see my post it as a factor though just unsure on what scale

Edit: fixed wording to prevent confusion

Edited April 4, 2012 by coryWA

[Distracted]

cory off the top of my head the findings from portugal were that drug use among teens was down, drug use among adults was slightly up but severe drug abuse was down.

off the top of my head! pretty sure i read the statistics from a link in this thread....

[Francois le Danque]

i don't think any conspiracy theories surrounding this issue should be given much credence. i think that the government is merely stupid; the populace are stupid and this forces the government's hand to do stupid things.

really drug use is a huge issue to all governments. attempting failing to control it costs them billions, and billions could be made if they were to tax them. so really, apart from environmental problems, i think this is probably one of the most important issues facing governments today.

[chnt]

the WOD is a huge environmental problem, the WOD is in my view the most important world issue, with all the different elements to it, it is devastating in so many ways, you could write a book about everything it causes, from environmental to health to economical to what ever... the list goes on. with environmental it works in 2 basic ways, drugs being illegal creates a black market that produces drugs with no care for the environment, polluting it with chemicals, destroying many forests and much more... law enforcement that targets these drugs rape the land with mass burnings of crops, not to mention that of the drugs produced something like up to 80% gets seized by police, this huge inefficiency is icing to the cake of environmental concerns among other things... the other side to this is that with the current drug laws and social views on drugs, hemp cannot be mass produced, hemp is probably the most sustainable plant on the planet and could be immensely beneficial for the environment in many many ways, ending the war on drugs would not only put an end to the devastating environmental effects but also immensely help the environment with a mass hemp industry.

edit: late night bad spelling

Edited April 5, 2012 by chnt

[qualia]

i don't think any conspiracy theories surrounding this issue should be given much credence.

really? what "conspiracies theories" are you referring to? if it's the one about the CIA being involved in the illegal drug trade then you only have to look at the iran contra affair to realise that it's not only very probably happening, but also highly likely that the same or similar things are happening in afghanistan. once you take these factors into account you begin to see that this ideological and "health and safety" crap is complete bullshit.

[Francois le Danque]

actually chnt i think you will find very little of the mass of drugs produced is seized, but i definitely agree with the environmental damage done by prohibition, and yeah, hemp is awesome stuff.

no qualia i am well aware of the cia's involvement in trafficking drugs, this is well documented, and i think even admitted by them at one point. i meant comments pertaining to control of thoughts by the government. as pointed out by martin williams at EGA, this gives those in power faaaar too much credit.

[whitewind]

However, statistics from the National Drug Strategy Household Survey show cannabis use among West Australians fell from 13.7 per cent in 2004 to 10.8 per cent in 2007.

The figure rose to 13.4 per cent in 2010, after the Liberal-National government came to power in 2008.

 

Stress release, definitely medicinal use only.

[whitewind]

controlling people is helping people

protecting people from people and people from themselves.

a dangerous mentality to adopt

 

If everyone helps everyone else, there is no need to help yourself.

If everyone helps themselves, there is no need to help anyone else.

Which is the most dangerous mentality to adopt?

[chnt]

actually chnt i think you will find very little of the mass of drugs produced is seized, but i definitely agree with the environmental damage done by prohibition, and yeah, hemp is awesome stuff.

no qualia i am well aware of the cia's involvement in trafficking drugs, this is well documented, and i think even admitted by them at one point. i meant comments pertaining to control of thoughts by the government. as pointed out by martin williams at EGA, this gives those in power faaaar too much credit.

 

yeah i was tired and pulled that figure out of my arse... but depending on the drug in question be it heroin or cocaine or what ever, and depending on time of year or place of destination, a lot of it can be seized at any one time, but with that who knows how much of i gets destroyed (which adds to the inefficiency and helps exacerbate the problem to the environment) and who knows how much is re-circulated through corruption of law enforcement.

with that last little bit, pollies love playing the fool, but surely they cant get to where they are by truly being unintelligent, i think there's a lot they dont give away about themselves to the public, and surely they must be able to see how fucked up some of their policies are and what they actually cause, surely they know the environmental impact of mining and deforestation and dumping shit into the ocean, but they let it all happen, surely they know about alcohol prohibition and its failure, surely they have at least heard of decriminalisation in portugal and known of its success, surely they have heard of medical cannabis in the US and heard of its potential, surely they know that hemp is not a drug and can be immensely beneficial to society as a whole. how can they not know? surely they can see that "boat people" is not an issue at all but they perpetuate it anyway... there is a huge agenda that is hidden from the public, dont underestimate the government.

[chnt]

please watch the video in this thread

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31597

[Distracted]

If everyone helps everyone else, there is no need to help yourself.

If everyone helps themselves, there is no need to help anyone else.

Which is the most dangerous mentality to adopt?

 

I think people should have an open hand ready to grasp the hand of anyone in need but shouldn't be reaching out to grasp those that haven't asked to be helped.

I still think the 1st option is the more dangerous mentality.

Being ruled under a dictator that torments his people for his own betterment is better than being ruled under a dictator that torments his people for their own betterment.

[whitewind]

I think people should have an open hand ready to grasp the hand of anyone in need but shouldn't be reaching out to grasp those that haven't asked to be helped.

I still think the 1st option is the more dangerous mentality.

Being ruled under a dictator that torments his people for his own betterment is better than being ruled under a dictator that torments his people for their own betterment.

 

Really? So community spirit and sharing generosity is worse behaviour than selfish individualism?

[Francois le Danque]

with that last little bit, pollies love playing the fool, but surely they cant get to where they are by truly being unintelligent, i think there's a lot they dont give away about themselves to the public, and surely they must be able to see how fucked up some of their policies are and what they actually cause, surely they know the environmental impact of mining and deforestation and dumping shit into the ocean, but they let it all happen, surely they know about alcohol prohibition and its failure, surely they have at least heard of decriminalisation in portugal and known of its success, surely they have heard of medical cannabis in the US and heard of its potential, surely they know that hemp is not a drug and can be immensely beneficial to society as a whole. how can they not know? surely they can see that "boat people" is not an issue at all but they perpetuate it anyway... there is a huge agenda that is hidden from the public, dont underestimate the government.

 

respectfully, chnt, i completely disagree. how can they not know? easy! your average bogan on the street has never heard of any of these things you listed, or at most has the most simplified vaguery of an understanding, and politicians are just bogans who somehow got popular. i mean look at gillard's accent, fuck me. "werking femmalies, moving foord".

maybe the people you encounter in your life are of a better breed than i, but most people i interact with in general are fucking idiots.

edit: except on the corroboree

Edited April 6, 2012 by frank

[chnt]

politicians aren't the average bogan on the street, regardless of how much they try to connect with the average bogan and show them they care about footy and free sauce with meat pies... i feel a quote from the usual suspects might have merit here "the smartest thing the devil did was convince the world he was dead" substitute devil for politicians and dead for unintelligent.

[LokStok]

chnt, i think your missing the point.

Career politicians. They might go into politics with desires and plans to make a positive difference, but once there they are expected (if they want any sort of longterm future)

to toe the party line. And the party line is getting into/staying in government (POWER). Thats it! Thats the system we have.

Its all about what the party leaders perceive will gain the most (or lose theleast) votes.

When you say about individual politicians "surely they know", a lot probably do. Once you've compromised your beliefs & values the first time, it would become progressivley easier.

"to know and not to act, is not yet to know"

chinese proverb (possibly confucius)

[whitewind]

Like Peter Garrett you mean?

I'm sort of halfway between the two camps, on the one hand you don't get many politicians who come from poor backgrounds, and the ones who do tend to quickly go up against industry leaders and find themselves without much influence. Even someone like Kevin Rudd, who was actually well liked (in comparison to all of our modern leaders) didn't last long after he went up against the mining corps.

However, particularly right-wing politicians, tend to be quite nasty from well-off backgrounds and really do seem to think of your average person as scum, worker drones whose existence is purely to keep the economy going and their pockets full.

Our democracy doesn't, cannot work in a capitalist environment. It's as simple as that.

[whitewind]

And I think that's part of the problem. If you look at the war on drugs as two armies attacking the same front (a front which has already lost the main battle); one army is the influence of religion and it's morals, which has a long history and is still quite powerful, coupled with the extremely powerful and influential pharmaceutical lobby, your average stoner doesn't stand a chance of being heard.

We really need to co-ordinate our movements better if we want to make any headway here, look at the power of the green movement - even then it's taken years (decades even) to start seriously influencing policy and the thinking of the general public. We've a long way to go yet.

[johnnyzero64]

The highest authority requires your responsible use of entheogens, go forth and seek the knowledge, for the righteous are blessed, even in chains, our minds are free.

[pete34]

Our fearless leaders only know what the banksters and lame stream media tells them

honestly