x x

[Torsten]

myco, I wasn't speaking in theoretical terms, but from experience. If you don't pay attention to what goes on around you and if you can't even read my posts properly then why present a theory that has already been shown to be wrong?

[CβL]

Well, just to help even out the discussion...

There's not much reason to be ultra-paranoid now. The reason is that you (as a user of the WWW and other protocols), generate a lot of "information", or traffic. A lot of it is useless (to law enforcement). So the problem is how to filter out the crap, from the incriminating stuff. Fortunately for now, it takes a human to do this job to even an average standard (computer filtering of human language is in its infancy). So unless you are already being watched, there's little to worry about. All this talk of "split traffic" is not really relevent.

At best one full-time worker could watch 100 people a day (100 people generating traffic at 2012 rates is a lot). Now that would require 1% of the population to be employed to filter internet traffic for dodgy things... Do you honestly think that they would do such a thing (not to mention that you'd need 0.01% of the population to monitor the other 1%.... ad nauseum)? Now I'm not denying the existence of keyword scanners and other automatic detection tools, for they exist. But even then, it adds a ridiculous amount of processing to check each word for its inclusion in a "contraband dictionary". Possible, but too computationally infeasible due to its ultra-low efficiency. Not every single piece of traffic is checked for all possible words.

So effectively, you're rather safe unless you have been pre-designated as someone likely to be doing designated things. In such a case, it's unlikely that finding nothing from your online traffic will remove you from the list - it might make you look more suspicious and elevate you to require more surveillance.

The simplest piece of advice is to act online as you would offline (as in, don't be a retard in either).

[EntheoAssassin]

I use facebook as a global activist tool to try and raise awareness about global issues that people aren't normally made aware of via mainstream media. The sad thing is most people truly don't care about the Rothschild banking conspiracy and why Libya/Gaddafi was really invaded or the real motives behind 9/11 OR the nuclear pollution still spewing out of Fukushima.

Not only the above but facebook tracks your every internet move.

[Sallubrious]

Well, just to help even out the discussion...

There's not much reason to be ultra-paranoid now. The reason is that you (as a user of the WWW and other protocols), generate a lot of "information", or traffic. A lot of it is useless (to law enforcement). So the problem is how to filter out the crap, from the incriminating stuff. Fortunately for now, it takes a human to do this job to even an average standard (computer filtering of human language is in its infancy). So unless you are already being watched, there's little to worry about. All this talk of "split traffic" is not really relevent.

At best one full-time worker could watch 100 people a day (100 people generating traffic at 2012 rates is a lot). Now that would require 1% of the population to be employed to filter internet traffic for dodgy things... Do you honestly think that they would do such a thing (not to mention that you'd need 0.01% of the population to monitor the other 1%.... ad nauseum)? Now I'm not denying the existence of keyword scanners and other automatic detection tools, for they exist. But even then, it adds a ridiculous amount of processing to check each word for its inclusion in a "contraband dictionary". Possible, but too computationally infeasible due to its ultra-low efficiency. Not every single piece of traffic is checked for all possible words.

So effectively, you're rather safe unless you have been pre-designated as someone likely to be doing designated things. In such a case, it's unlikely that finding nothing from your online traffic will remove you from the list - it might make you look more suspicious and elevate you to require more surveillance.

The simplest piece of advice is to act online as you would offline (as in, don't be a retard in either).

 

All this shows is that you have no experience in packet monitoring /filtering.

An enormous amount of data can be analysed in real time even by a kid with a laptop and free open source software.

If you know how the packets are structured you can filter out the dross by applying filters which removes most of the traffic and leaves you with the real content in a very small number of packets.

Then if you know how to pipe information into a bash shell you can automatically grep out whatever you want in real time.

An entire district can be easily monitored with low tech methods and very little technical knowledge.

Anyone that's ever seen wireshark in action would appreciate just how easy it is.

Keyword searches are just a minor part of the detection algorithms, now lexical semantics & relations also play a large part, which greatly increases the efficiency of those primitive detection algorithms.

I'll leave you with a few quotes to ponder

“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.”

“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.

I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”

Nikola Tesla

[CβL]

All this shows is that you have no experience in packet monitoring /filtering.

An enormous amount of data can be analysed in real time even by a kid with a laptop and free open source software.

If you know how the packets are structured you can filter out the dross by applying filters which removes most of the traffic and leaves you with the real content in a very small number of packets.

Then if you know how to pipe information into a bash shell you can automatically grep out whatever you want in real time.

You've just described packet sniffing of one stream by another computer. Do you not understand that such a process does not scale?

Secondly, almost all of the packets are payload, very few can be discarded off the bat - there's almost no "dross" that can be removed in this manner. It's patently obvious to me (as a CS Engineer) that you are the one who doesn't have experience with packet monitoring or filtering.

An entire district can be easily monitored with low tech methods and very little technical knowledge.

Anyone that's ever seen wireshark in action would appreciate just how easy it is.

Keyword searches are just a minor part of the detection algorithms, now lexical semantics & relations also play a large part, which greatly increases the efficiency of those primitive detection algorithms.

Ha ha ha, I can tell you're not a programmer either from your thinking that lexical analysis increases efficiency. It's actually quite an inefficient matching algorithm, especially compared to more "dumb" methods.

“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.”

If you knew how wildly inappropriate this quote is to your argument, you would slap yourself in lieu of me doing it.

[Sallubrious]

OK I stated that wrong, most of the packets are payload, but I meant the individual components of the packet.

Much of the data travelling over the web is the data from the header of the packet which is comprised of many components -flags,sequence numbers,acknowledgement numbers, checksums etc.

The header is made of many separate components which can be eliminated.

So the data may be the majority of a packet - agreed, but when veiwed as individual components the header has many more components that can eliminated.

The packet sniffing I was referring to is dependant on the connection type/device, I can't really elaborate here but you could use your imagination.

& No I certainly don't consider myself as a programmer, I haven't dabbled in programming for many years and most of that was hexidecimal with some forays into C and java many years ago.

Sorry I snapped at you before man, I can only say that it is out of character and give my humble apologies.

Sorry mate.

[myco]

Myco

I'm not going to get into a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed.

Perhaps if English was your first language it would be sporting but no-one's going to get anywhere like this.

 

wat the hell is that sposed to mean english isnt my first language

i dont see any bad typo's or foreign words in my posts

and i'm not trying to get into some kind of battle of wits as you call it

and wat exactly makes me unarmed i dont know

all im trying to say is dont be so paranoid about stuff like that there really is no need to

[Alice]

and i bet you 90% of people on here that have had thier houses raided for any reason at all especially when its drug related

will tell you they dont take your computer or bother getting your computer looked at i know a few people who have been in trouble for shit like this before and not one of them had thier computer checked out over it

 

Interesting. I personally know only three people who have been raided, all drug related, and all of them had their computers seized. I wouldn't call any of them high profile in the slightest, mainly just stupid shit that they've been caught up in.

Not saying this is the norm, just my limited experience. Anyone else?

[myco]

that is strange i was always under the assumption they didnt

like you say i know of alot of people people who have been in the shit before

(i live in a small town and people are getting busted more and more every year and being in a small town you pretty much no everyone quite well)

its mainly for stupid things but a couple of them were growing some pretty large qauntities of pot aswell as having other drugs around and not one of them has had thier computers looked at maybe its different states i dunno

definately interesting

[Psylo]

don't use technology just because its free unless you understand it!

seriously, your original posts is so full of misconceptions that you really should not have a FB account and should have closed it when it fell out of use.

 

if you can't even read my posts properly then why present a theory that has already been shown to be wrong?

 

I take a personal interest in these two quotes butted against each other.

That is all.

[myco]

myco, I wasn't speaking in theoretical terms, but from experience. If you don't pay attention to what goes on around you and if you can't even read my posts properly then why present a theory that has already been shown to be wrong?

 

i dont know wat your talking about there maybe i missed something

wat was the theory i presented wich was proven wrong???

[Sallubrious]

wat the hell is that sposed to mean english isnt my first language

i dont see any bad typo's or foreign words in my posts

and i'm not trying to get into some kind of battle of wits as you call it

and wat exactly makes me unarmed i dont know

all im trying to say is dont be so paranoid about stuff like that there really is no need to

 

I'm sorry about that myco you'd called my comments ridiculous & I over reacted.

I re-broke a vertebra in my back yesterday & was in real cunt of a mood. After a sleepless night writhing in pain I can see what an arse I was.

Sorry to hijack your thread too Psylo

[CβL]

OK I stated that wrong, most of the packets are payload, but I meant the individual components of the packet.

Much of the data travelling over the web is the data from the header of the packet which is comprised of many components -flags,sequence numbers,acknowledgement numbers, checksums etc.

The header is made of many separate components which can be eliminated.

So the data may be the majority of a packet - agreed, but when veiwed as individual components the header has many more components that can eliminated.

The packet sniffing I was referring to is dependant on the connection type/device, I can't really elaborate here but you could use your imagination.

& No I certainly don't consider myself as a programmer, I haven't dabbled in programming for many years and most of that was hexidecimal with some forays into C and java many years ago.

Sorry I snapped at you before man, I can only say that it is out of character and give my humble apologies.

Sorry mate.

I'm sorry too, I got anrgy and wrote with far too nasty a tone than what I'd normally write with.

Without going further on this topic, I think that we both agree that there is the potential for great danger on the internet, and that it is in everyone's best interests to understand what these threats are, and to understand why our freedom on the internet is not guaranteed.

To get back onto the original topic, I HATE timeline, and I am utterly furious that I've been forced to have one. Unfortunately I have a lot of friends who live overseas who I (I'm being honest) would probably not contact through email. So I don't feel I have much of a choice (other than to abandon these friends) in quitting facebook.

I am interested in p2p social networking, but have yet to join one. Maybe I'll be an early adopter.

[Psylo]

x

[chnt]

i've always disliked phone calls, many other people feel similar about talking on the phone, fairy included.

talking to people on the net through typed words is much easier for me, unfortunately facebook is the social choice and as previously said by chuntmuffin, without it i would never talk to many of my old friends.

facebook has some personality disorder where they feel the need to keep changing their appearance, sometimes it might be the way they dress or do their hair, other times they'll change the way photo viewing works or what profiles look like, the timeline is the latest profile look. there is a special formula which is, the most recent update is always shitter than the last.

why didn't anon kill FB?

[Distracted]

the popularised anon attacks are just done by script kiddies using DDOS programs.

anon is funny... they've proven time and time again that the internet cannot be censored, you can't stop the internet. So how in the fuck would they stop facebook?

<--- has a phobia of phones, i think it lies more with my phobia of contacting strangers and first impressions... but whatever.

I find it weird how you call a phone call a proper discussion though, i'm betting 20 years ago people would've had the same complaints about phones that we now have about the internet.

edit: changed a term i used so i wouldn't be putting words in your mouth

[myco]

I'm sorry about that myco you'd called my comments ridiculous & I over reacted.

I re-broke a vertebra in my back yesterday & was in real cunt of a mood. After a sleepless night writhing in pain I can see what an arse I was.

Sorry to hijack your thread too Psylo

 

haha thats ok sally

i wasnt trying to be an ass using the word ridiculous sorry if i came across as rude

i have to say to all i dont really have a problem with facebook

and i dont know why being on facebook makes you a mindless drone

i know alot of people post crap on there constantly and tell everyone every little thing that happens in thier daily life on there

but that doesnt mean you have to

all i ever do on there is talk to friends using the chat feature thats about it

and i find it kinda useful really

[Psylo]

x

[chnt]

peroxide blonde likes "the awkward moment when you realise you're a fucking cunt!"

post-emo-'my girlfriend is 14 and i am 23' says "bring me the horizon are a bunch of posers, i'll take asking alexandria or escape the fate any day!"

indie says "i'm so indie it hurts, check out my new deathly hallows tattoo"

orange skin/cake face is attending "sluts who like to wear the same thing as everyone else"

[chnt]

just in case you dont know the bands i mentioned above, lets take a quick look...

asking alexandria:

bring me the horizon:

and bring me the horizon:

[qualia]

peroxide blonde likes "the awkward moment when you realise you're a fucking cunt!"

OMG peroxide blonde likes that? i'm totes liking that too OMG we have so much in common we should totes be besties on facie OMG like seriously LOL

[qualia]

post-emo-'my girlfriend is 14 and i am 23' says "bring me the horizon are a bunch of posers, i'll take asking alexandria or escape the fate any day!"

i'm a little concerned you know who these bands are in the first place. is there something your not telling us?

[chnt]

i'm a little concerned you know who these bands are in the first place. is there something your not telling us?

 

answer:

i have facebook...

one of my old high school buddies is a post-emo guitarist in a post-emo band... do the math

and i looked up soundwave lineups to jog my memory

[Torsten]

what's 'post-emo'? is that the ones the prozac worked for?

[chnt]

just think of the late emo scene that suddenly died a few years back (in WA anyway, i'm just assuming in other places as well because the whole scene basically stopped being "in") and the next incarnation consisted of former emos that latched onto the next fashion trend, pretending emo never existed, and these emo2.0 bands cross emo with hipster, they're hardcore they're cool and they're definitely not emo (dont mention that word... that word never existed), we're hardcore/post-hardcore/alternative/indie/baroque/disco/experimental add a bit of cock rock and hair metal, make sure you have tattoos, we're expressing our individuality but all of us have tattoos, tattoos are awesome, i'm not spending thousands of dollars to look "in", i'm not insecure, do you like my plugs and my meme/niche-nerd-alternative shirt? haha my hair is not the same as everyone else's, dying was so 2007, i'm in a band, i have a token band name like "we ride the moon over lolgasm" "she VS nintendo" "our guns your dance" i have strong opinions because there is a big difference between every band that i listen to and they are not all exactly the same, and look and dress exactly the same within a certain set, all of them have something new and relevant to offer, that's why i think some are amaze and others pretty-boys with conforming fashion, there is a large gap between one band being tween-pop and and the other the latest fucking jesus/slash/pretentious wank artist. OH MY GOD GET OVER MYSELF! WHAT THE FUCK AM I SAYING ALL THESE BANDS LOOK AND SOUND AND ACT THE FUCKING SAME!!!

...what was i saying?

oh yeah, post-emo is completely different from emo. they have a more adult demographic, maybe.. um i dont know...

but check this out: