liquid wolf Posted June 28, 2004 Darkness is much like the percieved world in which our counciousness plays. It is not real. It can only exist through the lack of light and then seems to be. It is like counciousness and the world- the world cannot exist unless there is counciousness there to witness it. Any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted June 28, 2004 So by focusing attention it would be like using a torch too see where you're going Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narayan Posted June 28, 2004 Existentialism is interesting way to understand the way in which the world works. I like the idea that nothing exists by itself, ie we wouldn't perceive light unless there was something for it to reflect off of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted June 28, 2004 Darkness isnt the absence of illumination but rather a boundary beyond which we cant percieve lit. Therefore the demarcation of darkness is a definition based on the limitation of the observer. If the observer approache dthe same measuremnet from another angle or with a different tool then darkness would fall into light or light into darkness Really darkness just point on a continuum of light we use to navigate. nothing in the Universe is completely without illumination. Light is tangible, light is energy Darkness is abstract, darkness is an idea Does this mean darkness doesnt exist even though we give it life through consciousness? Isnt it the interplay between these opposing levels or reality that drive consciousness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted June 29, 2004 Take a look at Narayan's avatar ^ If you focus on the white it revolves within the blackness...focus on the black and it does the same in white. Now watch both...it seems the white is consuming black and at the same time being consumed by the black from behind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted June 29, 2004 reville: Darkness isnt the absence of illumination but rather a boundary beyond which we cant percieve lit. Therefore the demarcation of darkness is a definition based on the limitation of the observer. If the observer approache dthe same measuremnet from another angle or with a different tool then darkness would fall into light or light into darkness Really darkness just point on a continuum of light we use to navigate. nothing in the Universe is completely without illumination. Light is tangible, light is energy Darkness is abstract, darkness is an idea Does this mean darkness doesnt exist even though we give it life through consciousness? Isnt it the interplay between these opposing levels or reality that drive consciousness The way it drives consciousness can be taken from various angles I suppose. The darkness is at least a resting point, escaping from such sensory overloads like simply having sight and going about your day. Can take a bit of a break to process and recognize what has happened, then taking an alternate approach and creating dreams for some sort of further stimulation, yet on a completely different level to waking life. I can see darkness as a way to manipulate reality even further, by having very little sensory input, and having a strong entheogenic experience, revealing something even further from normally black darkness. It exists, but depending on what reality you are viewing it from, it can reveal completely different messages. If that made any sense [ 28. June 2004, 22:18: Message edited by: gerbil ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted June 29, 2004 This issue really is a lot more complex than it seems. Do people without eyes from birth wander in "darkness"? Do we experience the blind spot in our vision as a spot of dark? Do we experience that which lies beyond our visual field as dark? The answer to the above are all "NO". It being that darkness is the inactivation of potentially active light receptors. But does a baby who has light receptors intact experience darkness before the first (possibly womb-like) contact with light? My answer here again is "NO", I suggest that darkness can only be experienced AFTER the fact of firstly experiencing light through a receptor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NatureBoy Posted June 29, 2004 Anyone familiar with Plato's Cave allegory? http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm there are lots of http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=websites&v=56websites on it though...its all about light and darkness and shadows and consciousness. here is a side note of my own though: In the absence of surrounding light, even the most distant, dim light may be visible...whereas it would remain invisible to the eye that is overwhelmed by light. Like the stars at night. I know this sounds physical and not metaphysical, but things like this tend to work as metaphors too.... THIS is a better webpage containing Plato's Cave allegory: http://www.plotinus.com/plato_allegory_of_the_cave.htm [ 29. June 2004, 00:54: Message edited by: NatureBoy ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted June 29, 2004 quote: I can see darkness as a way to manipulate reality even further, by having very little sensory input, and having a strong entheogenic experience, revealing something even further from normally black darkness. Even in pitch black i NEVER see darkness. There are ALWAYS CEVs just hiding under the eyelids! The only way to turn them off is to turn on the light and flood them! They are chaotic There is never darkness i guess mediatation just allows people to learn focus over the visual and mental noise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted June 29, 2004 cev is what YOU BRING to darkness. to say that the existence of CEV shows there is never darkness is mistaking the 'random' noise of cones for the exterior stimulation of cones, no? I doubt that many people have actually been in "pure" darkness...it is most disconcerting. And yes, peripheral awareness becomes magnified in darkness because "rods" come into play, most of which are not active in the fovea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted June 29, 2004 light and darkness are merely points on the electromagnetic spectrum and depends (for humans) purely on the frequency's that we are suseptable to. pure darkness may be better defined as being a "space" of no energy of anykind (i dont belive this is possible). if we take a step back from from our human bodies for a minute and look at the essence of light we can see that it is only a fraction of the real energy going on around us. a good example is how a bee see's "light", more a flourescent hypercolour than our comparitively dull colour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted June 30, 2004 Thelema: cev is what YOU BRING to darkness. to say that the existence of CEV shows there is never darkness is mistaking the 'random' noise of cones for the exterior stimulation of cones, no? Yes there is this physiological cue and at the level of the instrumet, the eyes, the discernible level of light can fall beyond determinable levels and cause staticbut the noise isnt like the static on a TV, the mind plays with it and infuses it with formand meaning however if the connection between this organ and my brain were severed would i then see nothing? Everything radiates or is permeable to Heat or visible light or electricity. so were never in true darkness. And because the brain is always active (electrical discharges again) our consciousness is never in darkness either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted June 30, 2004 a little off topic but anyway: I'm wondering what there will be after death... just darkness, since you haven't got a brain and eyes no more... the energy that is our soul will transform into something... but will there be permanent darkness... that would be so... crappy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liquid wolf Posted June 30, 2004 I believe that when there is an absence of ego or 'personalised' counciousness there is nothing to percieve the light or dark. When you are in deep dreamless sleep you are close to this state. The body-mind are no longer there, thoughts and physical feelings do not exist yet YOU ARE. The perciever of the percievable is percieving nothingness that is beyond light and dark, existance and non-existance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by Gomaos: *a little off topic but anyway: I'm wondering what there will be after death... hopefully no need for sensory apparatus *the energy that is our soul will transform into something... else with a bit of luck and a little growth of the race itself! *but will there be permanent darkness... that would be so... crappy only if you're longing for the light I suppose Originally posted by liquid wolf: *I believe that when there is an absence of ego or 'personalised' counciousness there is nothing to percieve the light or dark. I feel that the sensory organs we use to perceive are still utilised in these states when possible and why not?..just re-prioritised and possibly re-wired. The thinking and logging of mainstream ideas doesn't seem to be as high on the list as the experiential input/output rate and therefore light or the lack of-doesn't hold it's original integrity or importance. My question is what lies half-way between light and dark (Darklight..LOL!)...er..umm..and how long can you hold THAT for if at all? I mean that would be the perfect vantage point for true illumination would it not.....? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted July 1, 2004 sid k once took some shrooms,he was familiar with them and knew them to possibly contain baeocystine[hope thats the right word] and to not take more than 4.he had 2 and some subs.after he talked to a leaf about plant/human relationships he felt queasy and assumed the toilet would be a good place to be.crossing the loungeroom he collapsed 3 times.when he collapsed he would suddenly be in total darkness/nothingness and have to remmember first his identity and then where he was before he returned to '[altered]reality'. [just to finish the story,a 4th collapse in the lounge doorway,sweat poured from his whole body and he found the ordeal was over.] t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liquid wolf Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by Mescalito: I feel that the sensory organs we use to perceive are still utilised in these states when possible and why not?..just re-prioritised and possibly re-wired. Well those sense organs are just that- organs and after we leave the body and no longer have the use of such phisical luxuries we are back home - The universal counciousness. Where as in a state of nirvana/enlightenment/knowing these senses are dramaticaly dulled not non-existant but distant and unimportant. My question is what lies half-way between light and dark (Darklight..LOL!)...er..umm..and how long can you hold THAT for if at all? I mean that would be the perfect vantage point for true illumination would it not.....? Dusk and dawn maybe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted July 2, 2004 THERE seems to be some confusion going on here that does not untangle two different ideas: 1) Darkness as "absence of light" in the visual field. 2) Absence of visual field. These 2 things are radically different, as I tried to point out before, life after death, blindspots etc being number 2. People tend to mistakenly co-mingle the two and in some examples it can be hard to 'keep your eye' on the difference. Absence of visual field is no more black or dark than a sound of E is, or the taste of turnips. In this case, life after death is not an occurance IN the visual field, eliciting darkness, but would be an example of the destruction of the visual field, and if anything at all, would occur in the absence of visual field ie. not a DARK thing at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liquid wolf Posted July 2, 2004 Firstlt i wish i was in a deep sleep right now! Secondly i wonder at the quality of light both physically and metaphorical. No- one knows what the hell light is in the realm of physics. Also there are'nt to many people that have realised that what happens around them in the physical/spritual sense. Is just light all that can be experianced is part of the illusion. Even the feeling of being free of the illusion is part of the illusion as it is incorperated in it. The only freedom is freedom from the idea of illusion and freedom from that illusion. The only place we are illuminated is the one where "we're" not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted July 2, 2004 sid apparenly was only experiencing his own consciousness but still experienced the void as a 'black' emptyness [absence]. he had none of his 5 senses. t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liquid wolf Posted July 5, 2004 How could sid be experiancing his counciousness? Who is sid to be doing this kind of thing? It is the counciousness that moves the mind to think that it is sid. Therefore who is watching the watcher? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
