Doof experience question

[Yeti101]

I'm interested in peoples opinions on/answers to the following ideas:

1) Is doofing (or what ever you want to call it) or any part of the experience a religious experience? (By 'religious' I mean anything ranging from extra-factual knowledge to out of the everyday experiences and feelings to things that might be considered more conventional religious experience.Psychodelic experinces also count.)

If the anwer is yes, how and why?

2) What are, in you opinon the roots of doofing and raves in terms of them being a religious (depending on your viewpoint) experience? What cultures and traditions do you feel have contributed both mentally and physically to the symbolic, physical, mental or even spiritual dimension of these events as we see them today?

I'm writing a feild report for a phenomenology of religion subject at uni and while I have my own thoeries on these matters, and have collected some material already, I would really love to hear peoples thoughts on the matter so thart I can put a bit more diversity of opinion into it.

-Sam

[mescalito]

Doof+ X + a collection of people that have'nothing in common'=dropping defences/Understandintg/one-ness.

(all great tools!,though it doesn't last long )

It gives you a sense of purpose and acceptance.....so yeah-religious in a way..... I guess?

Not a way of life for sure!

[Auxin]

I'll bite- whats doofing?

[nabraxas]

doof doof doof--it's the sound ov an open air rave, from a distance.

yes, it's the ultimate & oldest ov any societies extasis rituals. MDMA is the only drug that 'til now has not had a religeon claim it. we need some MDMA prophets.

think amerindians sundance, african dances, aus aboriginal dances, tibetan shamanic dances, the list is endless.

the drum...

the chant..

the flickering light..

it is now & always has been "SEX DRUGS & DANCE MUSIC"

[zetetic]

never thought of it as a religion before but definately see the experience as spiritual or tribal or entrancing....

and its all about the effect of the constant beat creating a trance like effect... good mind altering substances always help create a different experience, i would credit any culture that has ever danced to the beat of a drum with having helped.

in the psytrance community is the only place i have physically met others interested in ethnobotany.

[spiralfire]

I see some doof parties as having a religious aspect (some are pretty far from anything spiritual). You have ppl entering states of gnosis (either through the physical strain of dancing all night, or psychedelics, or both).

The thing I find interesting about a doof is that they claim no real focus, there are no set guidlines for participants to follow. You get out of it whatever you want, some chose not to pursue any spiritual growth, while others do (and there is no judgement as to your preference).

It's what I imagine earlier religions may have started as before politics & heirarchy moved in (making them organised).

Best of luck on the Feild Report mate

[mescalito]

Dunno how old you guy's are....but you just reminded me of the Monty Python's Life Of Brian

Quote"whatever happened to the popular peoples front...?"

"Oh ...Him? .....He's over there..."

"SPLITTER!"

[nabraxas]

"i want to have a baby--it's my right as a man"

"you can't have a baby, where's it gonna come out from? where's the uterus?.."

"don't you oppress me..."

[planthelper]

you have to become a seahorse for that...

[Yeti101]

Ah I can see it now "Strange correlatio between ethnogen use and monty python analogies"

[Guest electro]

re:

1) Is doofing (or what ever you want to call it) or any part of the experience a religious experience? (By 'religious' I mean anything ranging from extra-factual knowledge to out of the everyday experiences and feelings to things that might be considered more conventional religious experience.Psychodelic experinces also count.)

for some, no - it is just an excuse to get away and get fucked up. for others i believe yes.

escaping from the distractions of today to reconnect with nature whilst appreciating some of the (few) positive aspects of our society (new limitless music, man powered sun [lights} etc etc).

Marvelling at what we (people) can do right while immersing ourselves in our origins pure and simple ...

it helps emphasise the connection between us and the world (natural, man made etc are all one and the same) which is most often lost and forgotten through the stresses and idle, more often than not futile distractions our society throws at us.

Following that with wonders of organic chemistry, natural chemistry etc one can use such an event to provide the ideal setting to conect with who we are, how we can improve ourselves, help others, understand our position in the world (as a completley natural whole including things that are man made) and in some situations go beyond the relm of the "publicly accepted" and connect with energies/entities/godsn whatever, by systematicly shutting down our sences and forcing our brains to use parts not normally used, invoking the 6th sence if you like etc etc etc.

wow what terrible english.. still you get the gist

2) What are, in you opinon the roots of doofing and raves in terms of them being a religious (depending on your viewpoint) experience?

roots are both ... see a documentry by the name of better living through chemistry ,.,. or is it through circuitry,,.

in either case, you will see examples of drug fucked wankers, and of several influential people in the scene who appear to see the religious / conective / collective aspects to these events.

Unfortunatly nowdays commercialism and government smear campaignes the religious roots of these opportinitues have been all but stamped out by rebellious wankers with no respect for the opportinity they have been presented with...

[nabraxas]

Unfortunatly nowdays commercialism and government smear campaignes the religious roots of these opportinitues have been all but stamped out by rebellious wankers with no respect for the opportinity they have been presented with..-----electro, could you please go into details? who & what exactly do you mean by "

rebelious wankers?"

if anyone in Vic is interested in a non-commercial, truely up-lifting event, w/friendly like-minded people, check out the "party people" post in 'news & events'.

[Guest electro]

Originally posted by nabraxas:

[QB]Unfortunatly nowdays commercialism and government smear campaignes the religious roots of these opportinitues have been all but stamped out by rebellious wankers with no respect for the opportinity they have been presented with..-----electro, could you please go into details? who & what exactly do you mean by "

rebelious wankers?"

this is just my take on it, but here goes.

in the beginning:

raves / doofs etc were about uniting people despite race age sex etc. About enjoying ones self, about jenjoying the unity with others, about the crativity of people - music etc etc etc.

Clothes were mostly home made second hand, whatever... it didnt matter.

Commericlism got involved and suddenly clothes mattered, then water had to be rave brand or cost a fortune. looks and money began to play a role, detracting from the experience (being that it was intended to celebrate life, not shit youve bought).

Drugs changed, acid went out, e came in, then speed. the loving nature got overtaken by jittery fools trying to prove how hardcore they are to their mates with each line. This gets even worse when the government comes out and declares war on the rave scene.

No longer is the (majority of the scene) about leaving society aside and enjoying life, it now becomes an vent for societies pressures. a way to prove tyourself as being different, hardcore, unique. In a scence it became similar to the mentality behind street car racing .. my car is more done up than yours, i can go faster, my clothes are brighter than yours, i have been in the scene longer, i can do more drugs than you, i am more (drugfucked) up than you etc etc etc

not to dissimilar to the goth scene ....

add more commercialism to this to prey on those trying to fit into being different and those trying extra hard to rebel and you have a giant hall full of people there trying to eat as many drugs as possible to outdo their peers, to rebel against parents and society etc. You have them buying shit they REALLY dont need to fit this image even better, glowing shit, giant dummies, childrens backpacks etc in the name of looking good, proving themsleves, fitting in etc - the exact thing the rave culture was originally attempting to avoid ...

So from back to basics we have a culture massacred by commercialism, filled to the brim with people who are there because the have been told is is a bad thing, and therefor cool/ hardcore / proving themselves to be better than others different from others / unique / whatever (which in itself is normal, but completley avoids using the "party" to its fullest.) the sad thing is that most of the people there dont even realise that this is what they are doing, or that they are contributing to the police image of the culture being, well how they have portrayed it.

[ie cops said it is bad, evil, great eway to rebel, and the clture fills with rebellious fools desperate for ancknowledgement, appreciation and individuality who go about finding these things the way the police said the culture expects you to - by being immature and reckless with drugs, through promiscuousness by dressing like a fluro candy pop etc etc etc - you know the story, im sure if your eyes are open you have seen it for yourself).

Yes there are some who do use the opportunity to the fullest who may even dress fluro occasionally, but they dont loose site of what they are there for,.

[ 04. October 2003, 11:46: Message edited by: electro ]

[nabraxas]

oh i see. thanks.

[Yeti101]

Thanks heaps guys, especially electro!

[Plantsoma]

As long as everyone is aware there is a LARGE difference between a DOOF and a RAVE then all is fine. :D

What electro just mentioned about the demise of culture in the Rave scene and its beginnings share similarities with the DOOF scene today.

DOOF parties are, i suppose, what rave parties were in the beggining, as far as motives, not music goes. I have seen plenty of those 'drug fucked wankers' infiltrate the scene recently. Especially as i am part of a crew who has put on several psytrance parties over the last year out in the bush.

The main problem is: people are getting VERY fucked up out in the bush (people who would normally spend the night at a niteclub and get kicked out once they are too smashed) and the party organisers are usually left to deal with them. There have been too many close calls recently in relation to OD on drug cocktails, GHB and whatever else. I feel it is only a matter of time before someone drops dead, too far from a hospital/ambulance. I fear this will be the end of events like this out in the bush.

As it is, it is really hard to get permission to LEGALLY have these events. The law would like organisers of small parties to have insurance, event liscense etc. which are out of mosts reach financially, as parties rarely see a profit (mostly losses). The factors involved to keep these events going are getting tougher and tougher.

Something to think about.

[Plantsoma]

Dazd:

As long as everyone is aware there is a LARGE difference between a DOOF and a RAVE then all is fine.    :D    

What electro just mentioned about the demise of culture in the Rave scene and its beginnings share similarities with the DOOF scene today.

DOOF parties are, i suppose, what rave parties were in the beggining, as far as motives, not music goes. I have seen plenty of those 'drug fucked wankers' infiltrate the scene recently. Especially as i am part of a crew who has put on several psytrance parties over the last year out in the bush.

The main problem is:  people are getting VERY fucked up out in the bush (people who would normally spend the night at a niteclub and get kicked out once they are too smashed) and the party organisers are usually left to deal with them.  There have been too many close calls recently in relation to OD on drug cocktails, GHB and whatever else.  I feel it is only a matter of time before someone drops dead, too far from a hospital/ambulance. I fear this will be the end of events like this out in the bush.

As it is, it is really hard to get permission to LEGALLY have these events. The law would like organisers of small parties to have insurance, event liscense etc. which are out of mosts reach financially, as parties rarely see a profit (mostly losses).  The factors involved to keep these events going are getting tougher and tougher.

Something to think about.

[nabraxas]

couldn't agree more with Daz'd last post(s).

i've been involved w/running both sorts, here & in London. pray the outdoor scene doesn't go the way ov the UK outdoor scene, which died w/& after Castle Morton- which was a freakin wickid party, 'till some fools set light to a 'leccy sub station at the end ov the weekend.

http://www.urban75.com/Rave/festivals.html

[Salviador]

Amen Electro, Amen. It's a sad state of affairs indeed. Maybe doof coordinators, could hand out ideals, educate those wankers, its not their fault so much as society's. :confused:

[Yeti101]

Presented my report on monday, talked for so long that my lecturer had to ask me to stop. Thanks to all for the input.

[loaded]

Curious, what is the difference on one hand between a bunch of people gathering together for a rave or doof, and on the other catogorically different people who identify by going down to the pub/club engaging in social activity fostered (almost inanely) by the heavy consumption of alchohol. Noted is the inherrent lack of meaning or reason in such an activity (other than to get blind or laid) perhaps further de-ideologicalized by being a socially acceptable and sanctioned event.

[nabraxas]

on-lucid--folks gathering to drink alcohol are "drowning their sorrows" w/a central nervous system depressant, folks gathered to take E are doing entirely the opposite-a perceived lack ov meaning or reason are subjective viewpoints-from the outside.

[ 08. January 2004, 02:44: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[_e_]

As a new comer to the crew and local scene Dazd just mentioned, i would like to add some of my own perspectives/insights.

When i first went to an outdoor event back in 2000 it was more of a rave then a doof, and for me (a 16yr old struggling to realise who i was) it was very much about the drugs not the dancing or music.

As i have grown up and matured/evolved a little more as a person i have started going to proper psy/bush doofs and also started getting more out of them.

The first really 'big' doof was very insightful in regards to how much effort goes into setting up the party, and also an insight into the varying motives and attitudes of organisers. Whilst it is hard not to be idealistic in this situation, i see dazd' comments above about drugs and the extremes of drug use in the doof scene as highly relevant to the future of these parties in australia and perhaps the world as a whole.

Whilst the presence, availability and freedom of drugs at these parties has much to do with their notoriety and also perhaps some of the large turn outs, it is also the factor that in my opinion under-rides their integrity and success on a spiritual/psychic/mystic level..

As has already been said, it is up to the individual as to how he/she interacts with the energy of a party, and what he or she wishes to get out of it. As someone who has had some pretty special experiences at these parties, and also witnessed some pretty messed up people, i believe that it is time for some guidelines/boundaries to be established.

It seems that the possibility of 'hive mind' at a doof is quite probable, and the movement en masse of the people on the dance floor to the tribal based music is definately reminiscent of ancient cultures and trance like states/gnosis.

However, i believe that if these aspects of the scene are to be further developed then their needs to be an erradication of the synthetic chemicals such as ice, ghb, cocaine and whatever other crap is being sold in pills..

I do feel that pure mdma offers some 'sacrament' qualities, however i would see more organic entheogens as being more conducive of a mystical experience.

At the last party i was introducing a unch of close friends to the scene and decided to be the 'sitter' for the duration of the night. I danced harder and longer then i had ever before and thoroughly enjoyed the night, not to mention being aware of somekind of 'hitch hiking' phenomena that left me feeling quite euphoric and trippy.

If ever i was to put on a party (which we would love to do sometime in the future) i would have a private party whereby everyone invited is known to be on relatively the same level in regards to the REAL DOOF EXPERIENCE, and part of the cost of entrance would cover a range of different entheogens which would be made freely available to all participants at the beginning and mid party to discourage the use of any synthetics and encourage the 'communal experience'...

For me doof is about an awareness of the earth and universes inherent heart beat, and a manifestation of the tribal awareness and natural connection to animism that humanity is so quickly becomming detatched from...

peace.

***E***

DOOF DOOF DOOF

[Rev]

min(E)rval:

However, i believe that if these aspects of the scene are to be further developed then their needs to be an erradication of the synthetic chemicals such as ice, ghb, cocaine and whatever other crap is being sold in pills..

I do feel that pure mdma offers some 'sacrament' qualities, however i would see more organic entheogens as being more conducive of a mystical experience.

And alcohol.. The nimbin after party had a bad undertone i attributed enteirely to alcohol being allowed in. I should say 'ugly' really

The agro that goes with it

I think MDMA is seriously overrated as an entheogenic drug as it seems to foster false illusions like the sentiments of a drunk

'i love you' when you dont, 'i forgive you' when you dont. And it while at first it can be very huggy and outwardly loving, the later satges are a lot more selfish, till the end of the night as the sun comes up and everyone crawls off under a rock to nurse their e hangover

I have been told this is probably the dopaminergenic element cutting in when the serotonin is all used up

Either way id now put it on par with alcohol as an excellent social drug in moderation but full of lies and peril with too much

There was just only so many times i could feel all that love and then lose grasp of it little by little ending up fairly antisocial afterwards

As a result i dont like it much any more

Acid would be the number 1 choice and low dose mushrooms close second both with some mild natural uppers like caffeine, a little ephedra, cola or guarana, and sugars to keep up energy, i dont know of any drugs better suited. I dont feel like these distort you ability to be critical as much, as a result i can look back on my thoughts with them and still agree it ws a valid insight when sober. With E or speed or alcohol - i cringe.

For myself I think doing this repeatedly is quite soul destroying

GHB is just another inebriant prob popular cos alcohol is so bloody expensive!!!

[Yeti101]

I agree with rev on this one. The subjective experience of E is SO different to how someone appears to be acting from a not E-ing observers standpoint. People on E can, forget or just plain miss the fact that they being rude, abrupt, selfish. Has anyone else been berated by some pill munching party-animal for having the audacity to bring them down by "not being interesting enough" ? E can offer insights, but that can be said of many substances. Often it is used a chemical security blanket more than an aid to conciousness, but that can be said about many other drugs as well.