full-on bedtime audio hallucination

[ThunderIdeal]

i was a bit like a piece of detritus in the surf. the ocean, a hyper-energised trance state and maybe astral projection, the shore, an ordinary, awake state, and me at the border, moving back and forth and getting dangerously close to both. there was of course the instant concern that malicious entities were present or responsible for the experience, but only limited evidence of them so while i attempted to relax into the ocean it was not so much fear but other usual suspects that kept pushing me back ashore. mental commentary. recording of details for retelling. wonderment at the bizarre reality i had randomly begun to experience. the fact that MY BODY WAS IN A STUPID POSITION, hands clasped behind my head with my legs and pelvis only turned to one side.

i am pretty sure this occurred on the way back to sleep, and that would be congruent with similar experiences. the body was buzzing with that pre-projection energy some of you must be familiar with, and the erectile tissue in both of my nostrils kept popping which is quite satisfying.

the sounds were full on, things like a heap of trolleys being pushed along a (non existent) slab of bumpy bitumen right outside my window, and hard thumps against different walls in my house, possibly mixed with real noises like the noisy animals in my walls and branches scraping the house, but the non-real noises were startlingly intense and seemed to move me towards the ocean. you know how you can fold the flaps of a removalist's cardboard box so that they are all tucked into each other? i was visuualising a box in front of me, trying to fold the flaps in like that so the friction of the cardboard made loud noises. other than that my closed eyes behaved in a completely normal way, like if i close my eyes right now, just blackish semi-nothing. my thought processes were very close to normal

THE REASON I AM COMPELLED TO SHARE, was something i found quite interesting, on every occasion when i was right on the cusp of 'floating out to sea', the cacophonous sounds collapsed into pure noise, deafening rips of faceless noise, as though the nerve from my ear was overloaded, or switched off. my thought at the time, was that it was my ears switching off.

[Sallubrious]

Maybe the CIA is using a neurophone on you.

If you get an urge to shoot a Ranga you will know for sure.

[C_T]

hypnagogic hallucination, have had it happen a few times myself.

brought on by sleep deprivation is my guess.

[ThunderIdeal]

mmmm, it's been covered here many times so i wasn't really looking for answers, just sharing, and thought a new thread wouldn't hurt. i thought the part about the sounds degrading into pure noise was potentially insightful.

[qualia]

thanks for sharing,,

i had another experience like this last night/this morning, interesting what you say about malicious entities. the last few times this has happened there's been entities there to to snarl/grab at me. they say stuff but it's never intelligible, only i know they're malicious by their behaviour toward me and the tone of their voices. of course i know know it's all a part of my psyche, but interesting nonetheless, i suppose i have many issues which are manifesting in this state as "demons" trying to block my transcendence.

but actually mostly looking again i think it's fear, fear of many things which i won't get into here. also of particular note, and this is unusual, is that the preceding REM stage i was actually able to achieve lucidity on my own. all past experiences have been preceded by vivid REM states, but this time was actually lucid/controllable. i was looking at some textureless grey birds/flying things set against a white background with a blue stripy/checkered patters (like intersecting lines). i was able to change the shape and number of birds at will into different bird shapes, also these flying scissor type shapes. wasn't fully controllable though because at the end the grey bird became one and devolved into this grey spaghetti/noise against my will. this was just prior to the "other body" experience (not sure how to put that, but being in my body in another realm sort of thing). i was actually able to stand up in this new body this time though, mostly i just get "torn" out of my normal body down to the end of my bed over and over which is quite fatiguing.

finally ended up with another round of vivid REM which was really a very vivid recreation of a mescaline trip, which was pretty cool (love dreaming of tripping). but most of all i realise i have a kind of mental block, the fear i said before, which prevents me from exploring this realm to the fullest. it's kind of disconcerting, to me, to enter in this other realm as it's completely dark/un-navigated to me, and i suppose, among other things i'm afraid of where i'm going and how i'm gonna get back. but yeah, end blog post thanks for listening...

[ThunderIdeal]

i guess that's the advantage of being able to induce these states at will, regularly. the first few times for me were intentional, although not easy, and i can honestly say this: the shock i experience upon finding myself on the threshold of a different reality, has not diminished much since those first few times, but if it keeps spontaneously happening to me as it has for the past year, i think the astonishment / fear will lessen.

[qualia]

it's been happening since I was about three or so, you'd think i'd be able to cope by now.

[ThunderIdeal]

i feel like including a little explanation of why it is so immediately unsettling, for people reading who don't really know what we're talking about.

just imagine being launched into an unfamiliar reality, inhabiting an unfamiliar form. you are like a newborn baby, except in a higher-energy reality, for instance sounds and 'bodily' sensations are intensified greatly. maybe you are like me and you have sought these experiences for 13 years, you can take a high dose trip in stride, but when it actually happens your immediate instinct is to get the fuck out of there, because it is unknown and so sudden. kind of like your first hit of dmt? nope. way more confronting, because it's REALLY HAPPENING TO YOU, and it's ACTUALLY REAL, and you did not take any drugs. what it does have in common with dmt, is that no amount of reading prepares you for it, and i guess, you can never really be prepared for it, even having experienced it a number of times.

[qualia]

i've never taken dmt in any form so i can't say whether or not a hypnogogic "para-body" (sic) episode is like it at all,

but yeah, most of what you said is spot on. i guess what frightens me (among other things) is if i do something, i don't know if i'm doing it, or if i'm just "imagining" it (and imagination doesn't apply here, but thats the closest i'll get without sounding like a dick).

i think another thing interesting is theres no real weight attached to this new-body? i mean, in waking consciousness, theres a certain physicality/weightiness to being in your body which anchors you to the here and now. but over there, it doesn't exist.

finally, i think it's the western culture with which we're brought up in which specifically limits our understanding of this to abject, isolated "experiments". if we (or at least i'm speaking for myself) were in a culture which accepted this as a, i don't want to say shamanic but i will, state, then maybe the fear/isolation wouldn't be felt as much?

[ThunderIdeal]

i'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but i think our cultural disbelief adds to our own disbelief. personally no matter how much i believe in a mystical idea, and no matter how many little things i notice which reinforce my beliefs that reality is mystical in nature, there is still that shred of disbelief, which may be mostly or entirely because of the cultural disbelief. for me, when a really powerful mystical experience such as these hits, even though it conforms to my belief system, part of the astonishment i mentioned earlier was being confronted with the fact that yes, it is really real, and you can (and probably will) run from the experience as quickly as possible but you can't hide from the fact that it happened.

edit: since our experiences are of a similar vein i think i can safely say that dmt is different, dmt is like any other trip and heavily visual.

Edited July 17, 2011 by ThunderIdeal

[qualia]

the fight or flight mechanism?

i suppose what i'm trying to get at is, that for me, and my western psychological upbringing that dreams are fake and waking reality is real, when you wake up in a place which is neither dream nor reality, and you are a part of both, then that destroys all of your knowledge of either the dream state, or the waking state.

now i'm not going to say i know anything about shamanic practice through different cultures, as i'm a westerner, born and bred. but this experience, for me, defies what i've been taught about dreams and reality; if you know what i mean. but theres no tradition, at least where i was brought up (in a traditional uniting church setting [for all those foibles]) which says separation of mind and body in this sense is real, and workable. so for me, entering into this state flies in the face of my traditional upbringing, and all the western psychology which i've been taught (or at least learned) through the years in terms of reality and the self/mind, which says that mind is not separable from body. indeed, things i've read in zen buddhism which state that mind is both a part of and separate from the body, i've always linked that to my traditional western upbringing. but in this realm, where such knowledge is useless, i begin to fear, because it is totally new/alien to what i've been taught.

but, and i'm not saying i'm aware of a tradition for this, if i was brought up in a culture which valued its dreams, or even the power of "astral travel" (i'll call it that for the sake of familiarity), then i would be able to handle more as a normal part of my being. but as such, the unfamiliarity causes the fright, and flight reaction because it's "not meant to be".

hopefully that makes sense and i'm sure it sounds like a bunch of wank to most people but thats how i feel,,,

[ThunderIdeal]

i wonder if anybody else is reading our thread here qualia? anyway thanks for the interesting conversation.

whether naysayer or believer, i doubt anybody understands if they haven't had a similar experience. when you say new and alien.

i read a lot about astral travel, before i began meditating to what i will call the pre projection state, characterised by intense electricity-like sensations and buzzing, which may be when the mind has entered the etheric body (the subtle body in between the astral and physical body,larger and lighter than the physical body but strictly speaking i guess it is a part of the physical body). i was very familiar with what people say about astral projection, for instance i read the manual by robert monroe, etc.

i don't think i ever came close to understanding how alien that environment is, and i don't see how anybody could. mind you, i have just barely slipped out of my body, and if i could hardly handle pre-projection, actual projection was several times spookier again. some people have stories of astral projecting while thinking for a while they are in the normal body, not me. the sounds and sensations struck me like a bold of lightning, not just because they were totally unfamiliar, but the severity.

i suppose western society doesn't want to make room for these stories, or they will make about as much room as C_T did ( no offense ct ). 'hypnagogic state kthx bye'

if that's what it is, a hypnagogic hallucination, then it is veeeery different from the typical hypnagogia which i am very familiar with. i'm sure my explanations don't impress this upon people, and i don't think any amount of explaining could, but to my mind and i think yours too, the experience stands out as much as any experience can, as being totally out of the ordinary.

[C_T]

once your in a dream state (your actually in REM but conscious), your brain makes anything up (hallucinations)... you could feel like your being abducted and probed on, you could dream your floating around looking at yourself, you can feel like anything, its your own brain running away with idea's.

thanks for sharing YOUR journey, but its yours alone, everyone will have something different depending on their mental state and beliefs.

i was simply stating you didn't get touched by god or anything, you having one of these episodes is actually your body saying "I NEED MORE SLEEP, STOP ABUSING ME OR THINGS WON'T HAPPEN PROPERLY!"

but i'm glad you find it amusing and want to push the boundaries and stress your mind and body out. This is how psychosis is created. enjoy the ride, while it lasts.

(12yrs working in a sleep lab, i've seen my fair share of crazy people!)

[FancyPants]

i wonder if anybody else is reading our thread here qualia? anyway thanks for the interesting conversation.

 

I was reading, then before I could reply got caught up chasing wikipedia articles from CTs hypnogogic states...

Anyhoo, besides between dream states, wondered if the rushing sounds had something to do with the sound of the blood rushing around in your head which can be heard when one is still and quiet while laying down.

LOL had an hilarious between dream state while in the emergency room recently while in for a bad asthma attack (exacerbated by a viral infection). I'd hardly slept for 3 days, and it was the third time I'd been admitted for the same thing over 48 hours. Anyway, I was finally given an endone for horrid muscles cramping from coughing and sneezing, so I finally got into a position comfortable enough to sleep with cannulas in et al. Was quiet aware I was still in ER, conscious a nurse was sitting nearby to monitor a couple of us, yet started pretty much straight into an extremely vivid dream - something about a The Block type show - but Jamie Durie was being chased by elephants and I was laughing SO hard, wondering still if the nurse would think I've got batshit because my physical laughter was getting increasingly dampened and just came out as humphs and jerking guffaws. Was very interesting actually being so aware of the falling into dreamsleep, and not only that, but that I remember it still.

[qualia]

but i'm glad you find it amusing and want to push the boundaries and stress your mind and body out. This is how psychosis is created. enjoy the ride, while it lasts.

lol.

whats the fascination with western science trying to explain shit away with "it's just x" or "it's simply y". just to make it clear, this isn't something i try and actively bring about, it happens regardless. i've tried to "shake it off", or even prevent it happening but it's impossible, and actually just makes it more troubling due to the idea that "this shouldn't be happening so it's bad". so whats the harm trying to harness it and maybe learn something from it? like you say everyones different and i don't subscribe to your views of sane/insane. i've been down that road before and am fully aware of what's there.

[ThunderIdeal]

yep, i've only ever sought these states through meditation, never by sleep deprivation. i have never had what i'd consider healthy sleep habits but i think my body is confused about how long it takes for the earth to spin around. i certainly don't think it is the hand of god, i was reasonably clear on what i think it is, and i'm happy for scientists to have and share their views too

from what i gather fancy, that is a fairly typical effect of opiates? dream-like visions or something.

[botanika]

i suppose western society doesn't want to make room for these stories, or they will make about as much room as ___ did ...whats the fascination with western science trying to explain shit away with "it's just x" or "it's simply y"

Have you ever lived in an eastern society for an equal length of time as you have in western society? Western society can be very accommodating by comparison.

Edited July 18, 2011 by botanika

[ThunderIdeal]

it's no big deal but you have included something qualia said in the quote of me up there.

what you say may be true, but isn't really the point. i'm not saying 'westerm society, as opposed to other, better societies', but in the same way that maybe some asian cultures explain a lot of things with superstition, in "the west" we tend to use science, which has a lot of positive outcomes, but it does get used as dogma as well, to the point where a scientific explanation apparently makes other explanations invalid. that isn't right.

anyway, i dunno, this isn't gonna be an argument thread is it?

[botanika]

it's no big deal but you have included something qualia said in the quote of me up there.

what you say may be true, but isn't really the point. i'm not saying 'westerm society, as opposed to other, better societies', but in the same way that maybe some asian cultures explain a lot of things with superstition, in "the west" we tend to use science, which has a lot of positive outcomes, but it does get used as dogma as well, to the point where a scientific explanation apparently makes other explanations invalid. that isn't right.

anyway, i dunno, this isn't gonna be an argument thread is it?

 

Sorry mate, writing from phone, didn't realise I had quoted qualia! And no arguments as I was asking out of curiosity because I live in Asia. In contemporary times at least I recognize china - the 'biggest entity of the east' - is formaly devoid of spirituality. They say 'wish you money' at new years and thats what most of asia is obsessed with. Then America - the 'biggest entity of western society' - almost the majority of the population believes in god and attends church regularly. Politicians ultimately use science far more effectively than scientists use politics and sleep is universal to everyone.

I'm not 100 % sure of everything your talking about in your thread because while I follow your highly visceral imagery Im not sure it describes exactly what I may have experienced. Maybe the brain has screen saver moments between programs. There's often a flash and sparky noise as a PC metamorphs into screen saver/energy mode. During sleep the brain does what it does...it may not be a teacher of wisdom, it may just be the guy who repaires your car. Indigenous Australians title of 'dreamtime' is very good - simple, literal and universal.

...the fact that MY BODY WAS IN A STUPID POSITION, hands clasped behind my head with my legs and pelvis only turned to one side.

THE REASON I AM COMPELLED TO SHARE, was something i found quite interesting, on every occasion when i was right on the cusp of 'floating out to sea', the cacophonous sounds collapsed into pure noise, deafening rips of faceless noise, as though the nerve from my ear was overloaded, or switched off. my thought at the time, was that it was my ears switching off.

 

You highlighted a huge potential physical factor. I often have dreams where I need to get from A to B and cannot seem to walk or run in my dream. I have to sort of hop and skip along...often waking up in the process frustrated. Other times I can fly off into the sky on dreams but sometimes Im stuck in mud. Perhaps its simply because I cant move my legs physically in a walking motion, only like scissors. So I feel like I would need to understand a whole dynamic of how the physical body relates to my mind during dreams and to what degree at various stages of sleep.

I do understand what you mean by the noise. I have also experienced my conscious mind snapping me out of falling to sleep in a semi panic as if its not sure Im falling into unconsciousness or death. It is often accompanied by a flash of hallucinogenic brilliance and rippling noise - a feeling not unlike vertigo. I dunni, maybe its like chemicals released after sex. There's some great hallucinatory trips to be had after sex. It could all ultimately be just about getting laid.

Edited July 18, 2011 by botanika

[C_T]

botanika; when in rem sleep, we paralyse our body so we don't act out dreams, the only thing making us breath is our diaphragm moving up/down. We can also hear and feel in rem, say the phone rings, you may incorporate that into the dream then wake up, deva ju the phone really is ringing... Or you may need to pee, can feel the pressure on your bladder, dream going to the toilet then wake up busting (or wet the bed!).

Now sometimes this paralysis affects our dreams, and you can feel sluggish like you can't run fast enough or in slow motion etc. This relaxation of the muscle tone could make you feel like floating instead. Everyone and every night is different.

Other times we continue dreaming and regain our muscle tone, hence sleep talking and walking.

[C_T]

lol the reason we dream about sex so often, is because during rem we get an erection (both males and females). Infact theres a test for male impotency based on elastic band around the penis and detecting its changes during rem sleep, if no change they cannot get an erection.

So both males and females have a tendency to dream about sex, since alot of blood is in our sexual organ and this will be influencing out dreams.

But, dreaming (the ones we don't remember) are real memories being re-played to another part of the brain, and we create a copy. This is short-term memory to long-term memory storage. We often dream the same thing many many times over the course of weeks/months and these bonds get stronger and our memory gets better.

As we awaken from rem, we can guide the dream. These ones are the fiction ones.

So even if you never remember any dreams, thats not a bad thing, your not supposed to remember the fiction ones, or you'll become confused as to whether you did it or dreamt it, and reality gets skewed. Just remember its working in the background

[botanika]

botanika; when in rem sleep, we paralyse our body so we don't act out dreams, the only thing making us breath is our diaphragm moving up/down. We can also hear and feel in rem, say the phone rings, you may incorporate that into the dream then wake up, deva ju the phone really is ringing... Or you may need to pee, can feel the pressure on your bladder, dream going to the toilet then wake up busting (or wet the bed!).

Now sometimes this paralysis affects our dreams, and you can feel sluggish like you can't run fast enough or in slow motion etc. This relaxation of the muscle tone could make you feel like floating instead. Everyone and every night is different.

Other times we continue dreaming and regain our muscle tone, hence sleep talking and walking.

 

Yes its nice when you can fly, brutal when you can't even walk. How much influence does the actual sleeping position have on this though?

[botanika]

Hehe CT I was talking about the hallucinations you get AFTER sex when all these chemicals are released and you want to flop next to your partner dazed like a lead weight...I'll drift off into intricate semi conscious hallucinoscapes for a while until my partner brings up the cuddle talk...

[C_T]

body position should only impact possible other sleep disorders, like sleep apnoea (obstructions).

if you consciously wake up and still paralysed, its a rem problem, the brain isn't synchronising things correctly, slightly out of order, usually from being stressed or sleep deprivation.

if these things occur often, its more than stress/sleep deprivation and you should seriously see a doc to manage things, you might also have narcolepsy.

The classic symptoms of the disorder, often referred to as the "tetrad of narcolepsy," are cataplexy, sleep paralysis, hypnagogic hallucinations, and excessive daytime sleepiness.[