pedro loph graft

[planthelper]

hi!

when doing a pedro loph graft, the pedro often forms an indentation around it's inner (wooden) core, which makes the union fail.

to over come this problem, i cut the tip off the pedro a few day's before i do the grafting,

basicly meaning, the pedro had some time to shrink around it's core, and any new cuts will not suffer from shrinkage problems.

is that what you do aswell?

i guess the problem is worse if the pedro wasn't growing much activly...

late edit: removed dyslexic mistake (mixing up opposing terms), hehehe.

Edited June 15, 2011 by planthelper

[Bush Turkey]

just make sure you cut the stock down like a pencil. you want the flat bit on top of your stock to be around the same size as your scion or smaller

[planthelper]

sure, the smaller the pencil shape top is, the less a problem one might get with sunken cores.

but if my loph is bigger in circumfrence than the pedro, your methode doesn't work.

in other words, i want to seal as much surface area as possible, if the loph overhangs the pedro a bit, that would be fine, i guess....

better than cutting the lophs smaller...

cutting a big loph so it get's smaller (circumfrernce wise) would be a terrible waste...

sounds to me like, it's very important to have the right size stock for the right size scion,

huge pedros for larger buttons i don't have...

anyway, i will experiment a bit more around, grafting is just so much fun!

[naja naja]

I rarely taper, but always do the cut normally a week or two before the main cut and graft.

[planthelper]

just what i wanted to hear, naja.

i wait only 3 days for the core to sink, i guess the shorter the better.

what would you people do, if a graft has failed and you end up with a pedro without a top (maybe already pupping on the top a bit)?

what i mean is, would you re use a pedro as stock right away after the previous attempt failed. i always was reluctant to use a pedro stock a 2nd time, as i speculate that a lot of the energy get's already diverted to either a visible or unvisible pup.

it would save a lot of time and cacti tissue if one could re graft a pedro, or even use mid sections as grafting stock.

i guess if the pup hasn't grown to big, one could re use a pedro stump.

ok, i hyped myselfe up enough writting this, so what i will try to do today is to,

graft onto the old cut of a pedro which shows already a lot of new growth.

i guess moving the scion towards the edge of the cut, there where the pup emerged might do the trick.

[Hellonasty]

I use two methods to overcome this and both work well. First is what you guys stated cut a week or so early and let it dry out. The other way is just use more downward pressure on the scion, by this I mead pressure that dos not decrease as the stock shrinks and scion moves down (with gravity). To achieve this you need to use weights to hold the scion on. If you use anything that attaches to the stock I.E. Tape, stockings etc the pressure gradually decreases and the scion can move away from the stock. I just use some heavy sinkers attached to some thin cloth, hang two of these in a criss cross pattern and you won't have this problem any more.

Hope this helps

HN

[planthelper]

interessting, i experimented a lot with weights aswell, i use either, small flat stones, or better, big metal washers and nuts of different sizes.

using a very big washer, i managed to graft a soft to touch loph, because the weight only pulled the out side of the loph downwards, and did not squash the centre aswell as the stocking would have done.

can i ask aswell, what is your individual take on the subject of alligement?

i mean, i think it's nice if the "white" can meet (olympic rings) but i don't think it's as important as often stated.

[watertrade]

to over come this problem, i cut the tip off the pedro a few day's before i do the grafting,

basicly meaning, the pedro had some time to shrink around it's core, and any new cuts will not suffer from shrinkage problems.

is that what you do aswell?

 

I have been thinking about doing that but never tried, I normal as, hellonasty suggested keep quite a lot of downward pressure on the loph. I use a little pad of tissue paper and sticky tape. I tape over the paper and onto the side of the pots. Or if the stock is very tall I wrap newspaper around the stock and tape to that. I often have to retention the tape after a day as the stock shrinks. Electrical tape has a good amount of stretch. I have never tried grafting lophs that don't fit within the outer edges of the stock when the rings are crossed.

[Bush Turkey]

i find that 2 bits of fishing line with sinkers on the ends (idea from gilligan) works well as it doesnt want to slide around as much.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Bush Turkey

[naja naja]

wouldn't that cut into the scion a bit? I use and have only ever used stockings.

[Bush Turkey]

wouldn't that cut into the scion a bit? I use and have only ever used stockings.

 

na i use a bit of tissue or cloth folded up and put it under the line

stockings you say??

Edited June 16, 2011 by Bush Turkey

[mac]

I had the best results using stockings or material & using the stocks spines to anchor & tension the material as tight as possible without damage

also used rubber bands & tissues or cotton wool as protection

with the sinking i think the closer to the tip or younger the stock helps (less woody material tends to heal smoother & cleaner)

Edited June 16, 2011 by mac

[Amylase]

I've been ghetto tekking it and use band-aids that are stuck end on end haha, looks pretty ironic but does the trick

Edited June 16, 2011 by Amylase

[PD.]

I use toilet paper and packing tape to graft, never fails me

If the core "sinks" just after i have grafted it is usually due to one reason, not enough water. Make sure your stock is WELL watered before you graft and the core of the stock shouldnt sink, thats ime anyways.

with the sinking i think the closer to the tip or younger the stock helps (less woody material tends to heal smoother & cleaner)

I generally use etoliated tips i have cut and rooted, best stock ya can get.

[planthelper]

i googled quite a bit around to find a pic of a echinopsis cross section with detailed botanical description, but failed, so i couldn't brush up on my knowledge regarding xylem and phloem....

same goes for the loph...

my question is, which parts of the tissues are in fact the most important to line up?

i think it's the outside of the (hard) core of a echinopsis, maybe it's called an endodermis.

basicly, i grafted a soft loph onto an echinopsis, just at the spot where a pup had been formed. meaning the core took a "detour" to supply the new pup. i talk about a pedro which had the tip cut off, in the past and re shooted with a pup.

now, because, the core was going sideways a bit, and we slice the pedro horizontaly for grafting, the outside of the pup core gets exposed in a slicing manner. same way as a diagonal sliced salami sausage gets bigger slices.

i speculate by grafting this way, i might manage better grafts, because it seemed that that soft loph recovered within just 4 day's or so.

i will try to draw a diagram.

the red line is the new cut for the graft, exposing "more of the outsinde of the core".

Edited June 21, 2011 by planthelper

[naja naja]

I am dubious as too how much it matters. I usually try and place it ring on ring, like mirror, and not olympic ring style unless vascular bundles are vastly diff diamete. And Im of yet o have a graft fail.

Peace

Edited June 21, 2011 by naja naja

[Hellonasty]

I know what you mean. When a new pup shoots often it grows at an angle, when you slice this pup and try to make the surface flat you will expose more of the vascular tissue. I find this happens very regularly with Hylocereus grafts, the new pups/shoots grow at an angle and I need to slice them on an angle to obtain a flat surface. As for effectiveness I'm not really sure, most of the grafts I do this way take but I don't think they grow any faster.

[planthelper]

i think the pictures explain it better.

[planthelper]

had upload hick up's.

i remove the weights or bandages after 4 day's, the loph is doing well.