What species is this Trichocereus?

[Philocacti]

I have had this Trichocereus for a year and a few months now. It's skinnier than the average Trichocereus and it grows extremely fast.

Someone IDed it as T. cuzcoensis, however, now that my T. cuzcoensis has grown it showing different traits than this unknown cacti.

Most T. cuzcoensis i have seen pictures of have longer spines with a very long central spine which this one lacks.

Here it is

Old areol

New areol

Also i always thought that this is a T. pachanoi, but a friend told me that it might be a macrogonus (i thought mac have longer spines??)

Thanks

[tripsis]

I'd call the first cuzcoensis and the second pachanoi.

[Evil Genius]

Hi Philocacti, Tripsis is probably spot on with Cuzcoensis.Its an awesome plant, isnt it?

[CβL]

Third confirmation that it is indeed a T. Cuzcoensis.

Second plant though, although I agree it does look different to most T. Pachanoi, I wouldn't go as far to say it's a definite T. Macrogonus.

It could possibly be a hybrid though (or another one of the lesser discussed varieties). The side-profile is quite a bit more like a peruvianus (more indented), and the emergent spines are also quite long (something not seen often, although can be, on Pachanoi in my limited experience). The areole size is the last hint at peruvianoid genes, as these are very large areoles for a Pachanoi.

Edited June 2, 2011 by βluntmuffin

[tripsis]

Trichocereus pachanoi from Ecuador can have long spines and large areoles, long enough to be confused with T. peruvianus. T. peruvianus can have extremely rounded ribs too. Not arguing with the possibility of it being a hybrid, any given plant could be, but those traits are all variable.

Edited June 2, 2011 by tripsis

[CβL]

You're right, they also often have the very wide V-indentation, which is seen on this plant. It's a very nice plant indeed.

[Philocacti]

thanks a lot guys,

i just want to add the T. cuzcoensis is not bitter at all.

About the pach/peruv, i believe it's from it's from Peru or Ecuador since the old guy from the nursery got his Trichcerues straight from South American.

Also some people (like Archaea) believe that pachanoi and peruvianus are different forms of the same species.

i will take better pictures of this cacti with close ups of the areol.

[Philocacti]

Hi Philocacti, Tripsis is probably spot on with Cuzcoensis.Its an awesome plant, isnt it?

 

Yup :D, i love the how it looks, plus it's super fast. I have a few others grown from seeds and they look totally different. Seems they'll be fatter in girth and wilder in spination.

Here's the biggest

These are close ups of the T. pachanoi, it's called Zeus

older areol

Edited June 3, 2011 by Philocacti

[Gunter]

spine traits and profile traits etc are just allele combinations that can arise in any form of these plants and so are problematic for identification, particularly when so much hybrid and mixed material exists, it is easy for a bridgesii, peruvanus or pachanoi like plant to have a variant such as a longer or shorter spine and if you sow 500+ seeds you will see that even so called pure species populations can have a lot of variation, making ID from photos kind of a joke

that being said I'd say that the first plant is cuzco like, but the second plant is hard to place, it has traits of several so called species. It has a fairly large number of spines showing on the areole, but it isn't clear what phase of maturity it is at and plants can change a great deal due to growing up, for example several forms allied with these plants grow spineless at their tips when mature, other forms with short spines grow much longer centrals when mature. Younger plants and smaller cuttings often have a different appearance than their mature form.

I'd avoid putting too much stock into thinking that any species or form is uniform and can't have a lot of variation in it. That second plant is pretty, it looks allied with pachanoi and peruvianoid forms, but to call it a pachanoi, or a peruvianus, just because it looks like one is silly. I've got several hybrids in my collection that I grew from seed that do not resemble an intermediate form but instead look like a version of one of the parents. There is no possible way that someone could give them a proper ID from mere photographs. Even in person they cannot be identified properly as what they are. Some of the most interesting ones are hybrids involving genes from peruvianus, bridgesii and pachanoi all together, these can be very confusing to any armchair cactus expert including myself.

That Zeus plant looks like it could be a hybrid, or a pure form. Is it possible to say without collection data and a breeding history?

I once met a cactus grower who supplies a major seed retail outlet for cacti in the USA, he produced seed of pediocactus and had many flowering in his yard at once, I asked him how he prevented them from cross pollinating and he told me they couldn't... a lot of seedlings from botanical gardens are also sold as the name of the plant they were collected from, this reflects that even the so called experts in the field have a lot of misconceptions. Identification is like taxonomy, more of a philosophy than a science.

[Philocacti]

Archaea, thanks a lot for your input

Just make thing clear, Zeus is the same plant in the last picture in the 1st post.

I don't know how mature he is. The guy that i bought him from has had it for over 40 years and i bought several cuttings and rooted plant. I have one that is almost 180 cm and another 3 branched 150 cm. I bought the one in the picture while it was 120 cm long but i cut it several times and now it's been growing for a year.

The bigger ones have slightly longer spines.

[bit]

Hi Philo, that blue pachanoi like plant is T.Argentensis

As eeen in my garden too:

Edited June 6, 2011 by bit

[Philocacti]

thanks a lot bit, after i read your post i googled T.Argentensis and found this thread

your specimen in the 1st picture of post 8 looks very similar if not identical to mine

did yours ever flower? were the flowers different than others T. pachanois?

[bit]

Just added a couple more photos of mine. I really should take some better ones of it, it's an awesome plant.

Mine's coming up 5+ feet tall, so I've told it to flower this year. Will report back around christmas

[Philocacti]

great pictures

that's very exciting for me, hopefully yours will flower and i can't wait to see the pictures

I finally found good fertiulizers called "Super Grow", i intend to fertilize the bigger ones with the flowering fertilizer starting from September to promote flowering in the colder months.

But my bet goes on your flowers ;)

[Philocacti]

the biggest

a couple cuttings

[Bretloth]

Found some pics at the sacredcactus.com site that look alot like 'Zues'. Here's a link http://www.sacredcactus.com/comparisons.htm

Edited June 6, 2011 by Bretloth

[Philocacti]

Brethloth the cactus on the left in the left picture looks similar but the right picture doesn't look similar, in my eyes

one of mine has pupped and it seems to me it doesn't have any vestigial leaves