Shroom-Aura Posted May 12, 2011 ID confirmed by 2 trusted identifiers on the shroomery. there was stacks of them at my field although I only picked 2 because I still am having trouble telling apart from foes. so just picked the two most likely culprits. also I went on my lunch break so had very little time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dundee Posted May 12, 2011 Good find, and what better way to use your lunch break 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mycot Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Interesting and congrats. They look quite different from your other Pan find. The foes that I have found were small with bell shaped caps and the flesh of the cap thin. Quite delicate shrooms. The subbs I've found to have thicker flesh, in the case of the ones that grow on dung very much so. These latter were large and meaty. Have these been confirmed by the sporeprint? Edited May 12, 2011 by Mycot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myco Posted May 12, 2011 check the spore print colour first im surprised people said subbs straight out with no spore print i say they are foes they look exactly the same as the foes that are growing in my lawn spore print needs to be JET BLACK it shouldnt have any colour in it just complete black if you search the shroomery forums there is a good pic somewhere with the difference in spore prints between foes an subbs a foe print looks pretty black but its not it can be hard to see the difference without a comparison Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 13, 2011 yeah I'm surprised too I thought these Americans would know their subbs inside out considering how much subb or foe ID requests they get. spore prints are in - the one on the left is brown aka a foe, which is what I suspected initially. the other one actually has a blackish-gray spore print, and I think your right its not meaty enough to be a subb. this suggests it may be P. fimicola. check out this one I found today though, what do you think mycot? i'm pretty confident this one is a subb - small, but very meaty. the non-white stem really made it stand out different to all the foes. spore printing now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mycot Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Subbs and foes can superficially look very similar which is why there are so many subb or foe requests on the shroomery and it is quite easy to misidentify depending on the photograph. That both species can also vary considerably in appereance with different strains doesn't make the task any easier and pics are harder to judge than haveing the shroom in ones hand. I'll say at this point that with the latter type of fimiliarity misidentification in the field drops significantly. Anyway to continue, sometimes depending on the strain there is a total giveaway in the pic which makes the identification easy and other times we're guessing from that superficial appearance. I think that this is an honest mistake by thoses indentifiers as even experts can get it wrong when going by the latter. I see that by now you have a number of different but at the same time rather similar looking pan species which is pretty cool and amazing. When we add possible undescribed species and P.fimicola to the number of possibilities then the situation can become trully confusing in terms of identification but at the same time intriguing in knowing just what we have. I breifly checked out these latest shrooms on the shroomery and the first thing that struck me were the stems. I believe you are right on this one Shroom-aura that they are subbs. They stand out as different to you and being very meaty heavily favors it being a subb. Subbs also tend to have darker stems than foes so thats also in your favor. The thing that struck me was the scurfy looking stems in the first two pics which is only seen when the light stikes it at certain angles. This course scurfy looking stem is one of those total giveaways that it is a subb. It is frequently present in pics of subbs but never occurs with foes. Any scurfyness seen on foes would be extremely light and fine. When medium to course its a subb although I'll admit that I'm only taking subbs and foes into account. Edited May 13, 2011 by Mycot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zen Peddler Posted May 13, 2011 print one of those fuckers mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 13, 2011 this one looks jet black to me! yeah good point myco about the scurfyness of the stem. that really made it stand out, I think its a great field indicator for subbs. only found a lone one though no others were around that I could see. although weather isn't really ideal for subbs right now its pretty cold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mycot Posted May 13, 2011 Congratulations. Now that you know what you are looking for you'll be in a good positition when the weathers better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myco Posted May 14, 2011 im still saying there all foes they look exactly the same as ones i picked and checked out last week i have hundreds of em growing in the lawn and i have hundreds of photo's of em some are alot chunkier than others some are very small and weak but they all appear to be foes heres a link to my post in the shroomery http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14423344#14423344 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mycot Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Great, no sooner have I made an observation and along comes someone with foes that show a reasonable amount of scurfyness on the stem. Therefore the scurfyness hypothesis has to be modified to scurfyness against a darker brown background such that there is a reasonable amount of contrast. Under this definition myco's shrooms would still be foes as the stems are much lighter and shroom-aura's shrooms would still be subbs. To check whether this is correct we may still have to return to the sporeprint. Here's a comparison pic that should help to clear the matter up. The color has to be a rich black. Edited May 14, 2011 by Mycot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zen Peddler Posted May 14, 2011 you'd better get those neo-pagan wica orgies organised mate - apparently their prefered mushroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) the last one I picked is definitely a subb myco. confirmed with 100% jet black sporeprint. yeah blue greeny when I find more am definitely gonna get some pagan orgies going Edited May 14, 2011 by Shroom-Aura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moses Posted May 17, 2011 funny how you can never find them then BAM! congrats mate, you get any spawned let me know, i got a horse stable just waiting to be colonised Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 17, 2011 I think its just about timing, every other time I checked not enough rain. the day after that massive downpour ended last week the field was covered by thousands of pans (mostly foes). after about the 4th day there were hardly any pans left at all. the first 2 days is when I found the subbs - had to battle through many foes. yeah definitely wanna get some spawn going from this print what was the potency like from the ones you had in your backyard? funny that they only grew from your pot plants. have you tried giving them more dung substrate to see if they would fruit again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 17, 2011 heres a photo of the prints, not very good lighting but you should get the idea. the one on the left is the second find (the one with the thick stem), the middle one is the thin stem one and the foe is on the right obviously Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Shroom-Aura suspected subb vs suspected fimi/thin stem subb spores suspected subb: 10.8-12.1 x 7.9-8.7 , E=1.31-1.45 (1.37) suspected fimi: 12.0-14.0 x 7.9-8.0 , E=1.50-1.78 (1.74) cheilocystidia both specimens without pleurocystidia Edited May 23, 2011 by ferret Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) thanks ferret, great work! Alan rockefeller has seen these photos and confirmed they are both Panaeolus subbalteatus. Also the spore dimensions are in the range of subbalteatus. That should confirm it for the skeptics Edited May 23, 2011 by Shroom-Aura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zen Peddler Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Whos this rockefeller bloke? Eat my friend - bioassay. German friends once told me that these guys will get your freak on... Other pans had zero body load and pure head vibe IMO. Edited May 28, 2011 by Zen Peddler BlueGreenie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroom-Aura Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) a very reliable mycologist on the shroomery. bioassaying is the eventual plan but so far i've found these two. Since its winter now probably won't be seeing any more for 3 months. also I hear if you don't make a brew they will make you sick so will need to find even more Edited May 29, 2011 by Shroom-Aura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zen Peddler Posted May 29, 2011 WIth the exception of Workman and Teonan are there any reputable 'mycologists' on the shroomery? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
