hybrids of different species

[Gunter]

i am sure active readers of the site know that i am interested in the genetics of the San Pedro complex and their allies

the taxonomic implications of this information are trivial and essentially philosophical, however the breeding applications and implications are practical in several ways

along these lines i have observed some interesting aspects of hybrids, that some plants, which are able to cross, are only able to cross one way. I remarked about this in the Freaks thread recently but wish to emphasize it in this thread, many species allied with the echinopsis/trichocereus group cannot be used to pollinate San Pedro, but San Pedro can be used to pollinate them, the reasons for this are not entirely clear but seem to be mechanical as opposed to genetic (otherwise the crosses would fail both ways) it seems like the pollen tube of the shorter flowered specimens simply cannot reach far enough to be able to enter the ovary of the San Pedro varieties to be able to fertilize it.

So far I have the following crosses in my possession and am searching for more like them:

T huasca? X SS02 ( may be T candicans instead of T huascha)

T thelegonus X juuls/peruvianus

E eyriesii X pachanoi (PC?)

T andalgalensis X pachanoi (PC)

note that while these crosses all succeeded the reverse crosses that i know of being tried did not succeed

I am extremely interested in seed of crosses like those listed above, the ideal cross is a San Pedro type plant (pachanoi, peruvianus or bridgesii)

being crossed with a clumping low growing and readily flowering plant in the echinopsis or trichocereus group (some ally these groups but many still keep them as distinct)

these plants are part of a breeding project for the creation of new and desirable forms of cacti, which breed true and flower readily in cultivation, are modestly cold hardy and easily managed in regard to size and are ideal in other ways as well...

if you have any leads on such crosses, including commercial sources of seed, private sources of seed or individuals willing to contribute to this effort please contact me via PM regarding this matter

Edited February 21, 2011 by Archaea

[mutant]

Seems like a cool and ambitious project.

What is the end purpose? an intermediate form or maybe a pachanoid with red flowers??

[incognito]

I am extremely interested in seed of crosses like those listed above, the ideal cross is a San Pedro type plant (pachanoi, peruvianus or bridgesii)

being crossed with a clumping low growing and readily flowering plant in the echinopsis or trichocereus group (some ally these groups but many still keep them as distinct)

i remember t had t.pach x t.huasca (red flower) for sale when i was there? t could divulge more perhaps?

Edited February 21, 2011 by incognito

[mutant]

oh yeah and there's also this [ruby visions terschecki X]

[tripsis]

I would imagine the purpose would be to create small, visionary cacti which set flower and seed readily.

Interesting project Archaea! Where abouts are you based?

[Gunter]

i am in the USA, the ruby visions X terscheckii did not grow well for me and terscheckii is a bit wild for what i am trying to do

[PD.]

I have a trichonopsis x pach and bridge x spach. Have tried 2 echinopsis into pach, just waiting to see the outcome as i only did it the other day. Ill PM ya with details.

[mutant]

by the way, do you have any other info on this 'ruby visions' cross? Noone seems to know much about it

[Gunter]

it does not appear to be available as seed anymore, but various people planted it and it seems that plants are still surviving in some collections though i have not seen much documentation of this

[Evil Genius]

We (A few german growers and me) are crossing all kind of Trichs. Thats why im constantly looking for pollen of Pachanoi, Peruvianus, Macrogonus, Scop, Bridgesii etc. Anyone who has too much pollen can send it to me and will get some seeds back if the cross is a success! Archaea, do you know the awesome new clones that involve Tr. Chilensis? Tr. Chilensis x Tr. Huanucoensis and Tr. Chilensis x Tr. Bridgesii! I planted some of them and i cant wait how they are going to look like.

[Gunter]

i am putting together an order for the chilensis hybrids very soon, although it should be noted that more than one plant appears to have been called chilensis, or at least identified and passed around as such

i believe this is the T chilensis plant:

http://www.sacredsucculents.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=95&fullsize=1

interesting eh?

that crossed with bridgesii and huanucoensis seems very interesting...

[tripsis]

The chilensis hybrids are very interesting. I look forward to seeing what the progeny are like. If the one if the photo is what has been used for the cross, the hybrids have some nice looking genetics in them!

Edit:

I presume this is the huanocuensis used in the chilensis cross too. Should make for some fat plants.

Edited March 5, 2011 by tripsis

[kadakuda]

i know your into trichs,and i cannot comment much on them. but just thought it may be interesting anyway. you mention crosses going one way. i have seen the same for various othe r species. for example L. koehresii accepts L. fricii pollen but not hte other way around, floral tubes are more or less teh same lenght. so for other hybrids i also draw a similar conclusion on pollen ube lengths, but not always. there are otehr factors as well. L. diffusa sometimes takes obregonia pollen and sets seed, where as obregonia, at least for me, does not fertilize from diffusa pollen.

[Gunter]

thanks, i believe any insights into this plant family (cacti) are of potential value and application.

if you learn more about cross compatibility and how to affect it, let me know

I know that pollen extracts have been used to allow some different species to cross by tricking one of the species into thinking it is receiving pollen from its own type, thus allowing the pollen to germinate and grow where normally it would not be viable

[kadakuda]

yea, there are some great funky methods of hybridizing plants. fruit ad ornamental growers are great sources of info. but i personally feel there a greater need in being able to reliably identify that the resulting plants from any cross are a cross and not a mutated selfed seed set...

how does one tell for certain tha the resulting plants are not just some het. trait unlocked thorugh a selfed breeding that would have otherwise remained a het trait if outcrossed.

oh, the variables.

[mutant]

hey Archaea have you seen NZ pachanoi? what do you reckon it is?

Also, along with the NZ pach, an awesome generous member also sent a NZ Yowie, maybe it's the same with Ozzie Yowie. Wow totally unlike what I have seen so far, and they're supposed to be pachanoi.

The sheer width of these plants is astonishing. Yowie looks somewhat like Lance/Rob/cordobensis [pachanoi with some scop??] BUT there's a crucial difference: Yowie is shiny and smooth. Rob/Lance have a somewhat not-smoth surface. yowie reminds me a bit of PC pach.

Dying to see all those different phenotypes I've gathered growing this year. I will post up here some time

[Gunter]

hey Archaea have you seen NZ pachanoi? what do you reckon it is?

 

I have not seen it in person and really don't have enough information about it to have an opinion.

I don't think i've seen enough material (online) to have an idea of the way it grows

[naja naja]

Yowie in NZ, I never heard of such nonsense

[bit]

Yowie in NZ, first is my plant, second is the parent it came from ;)

Edited March 14, 2011 by bit

[tripsis]

Damn you have nice plants bit!

[Gunter]

how does one tell for certain tha the resulting plants are not just some het. trait unlocked thorugh a selfed breeding that would have otherwise remained a het trait if outcrossed.

 

while familiar with the theory of this i am not familiar with proven cases of this and would like to be.

however intermediate phenotypes between rather different forms should be easy to predict and identify, such as when the offspring have colors of the flowers of both parents and a form in between the parents etc

still, i'd love to have a reliable way to trick a plant into selfing and producing viable seed, anyone know of one?

that Yowie material reminds me of San Pedro in general, seems to be something scop like to it, pach like and even a bit of bridgesii like to some degree or another. honestly i have no idea what to make of it

[mutant]

lol I can see the pach and scop character [well in these big plants], but where did you see the bridge??

[Gunter]

spine trait aspects remind me of several bridgesii hybrids

[mutant]

oh I see, then maybe it reminds you of the non bridgesii aspect of that bridgesii hybrids you mention. Explain more if you like. Which spine trait in particular?

[ferret]

i was wondering about cutting the style the other day and found this this report i though was pretty cool

Traditional plant breeding methods - report 338

cut-style method, vicious