Catha edulis - Khat

[Cyjack]

A friend in Germany has told me that Khat is being used as a recreational stimulant, but I had not heard of it. A quick check of SAB info shows that it is being sold, but not as dried leaf... so I have some questions.

What are the differences between the various strains available? Is it not viable to sell dried material? Is there anything else about this plant that might be of interest?

As always, my thanks -

[apothecary]

UTFSE, but

Cathonine (the principal active chemical) is kind of like ephedrine or whatever.

In leaf form, it isn't very stable at all. Some people have managed to make methcathonine from the leaves using an a/b extraction, or something. Check erowid experience vault for the methcathonine project.

Imo, khat and speed, and etc are all over rated. Why would you want to go faster when you can just sit back and chill? :D

[M S Smith]

Screw khat and speed, give me COFFEE!

~Michael~

[2b]

 

quote:

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Some people have managed to make methcathonine from the leaves using an a/b extraction, or something.

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Not sure about that , most methcathinone starts from psuedo (IMO).

 

quote:

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Imo, khat and speed, and etc are all over rated.

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A survey once done in the US rated meth as one of the most euphoric street drugs available. Can't give references , so take it as you will. (What do you think the MA stands for in MDMA ? ) Meth is not amphetamine , maybe the two get confused ? If you ever get the chance to try 'pure' meth or MDMA you may change your mind about it being over rated Having said that some like stimulants some like depressants it's a matter of personal choice.

May i ad that the khat plant is legal to grow but not to consume ,it is a very popular stimulant amongst Northern African people from memory , I am sure some one else knows more about this than me.

[ 25. February 2005, 13:41: Message edited by: 2benubee ]

[apothecary]

2benubee, it's popular in countries like Syria too, but frowned upon in stricter Muslim countries.

I'm sure my gnome would love to try some pure mdma, but as it's practically impossible to obtain unless you're high up in the raver scene, or friends with an experienced chemist, he doesn't feel like trying dirty street stuff.

[planthelper]

tort, rev, gom and so on (including myselfe{the khatking TM}), plz let's all don't start talking about this plant again...

unless somethin new or inspiering happens,

because PLZ USE THE SEARCHENGINES, instead of taking our time.

sorry if that sounds harsh, but i think to speak for most of us if i say, we prefer post's that show us, YOU FUCKING did some home work BEFOR ASKING "US"!!

IT'S GIVE AND TAKE,

NOT JUST MOM, DAD ANSWERE ME THIS.

grow up and google and use sab's search engine and so on, and than ask.

sorry for agro, i just had it that's all.

who is khatking?

me!

:cool:

[ 25. February 2005, 15:39: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[Cyjack]

It did sound harsh... but point taken.

My thanks -

[Hagakure]

i would really like to try khat in some muslim country and listen to their poetry. saw a bit of it on a documentry and looked like quite and experience. they really chew this stuff aswell. not like pop two leaves in and treat like chewing gum, more like gradually fill up one whole cheek.

[psycho0]

just a quick question i couldnt find the answer:(

but what's so different bout red khat to the others? i have 4 strains all doing great but the red variety dries up a little- even with regular watering?

does anyone know how 2 remedy this?

thanx

aaron

[Stonehenge]

I've found that khat tends to turn red if the weather turns cold. My friend has both narrow and wide leaf khat and they both do the red trick. Are there varieties that don't turn red? Also, his have not flowered yet and they are over a year old. I seem to have heard they are hard to get to flower.

Stoney

[friendly]

A well known and highly regarded herbalist from South Africa and the co-author of several books on African herbalism tells me (personal communication, 1998) that Celastrus oil under the tongue has almost the same effect as chewed khat leaves.

This is one of the reasons I put it into softgels; the rush is not as noticable and people are more likely to treat it as a medicine than if they can just squirt as many drops under their tongue as they like.

I used to get quite high off the stuff by sub-mucuosal administration alternating with mj and just going back and forth.

Bite a softgel or two and leave them under your tongue while the oil dribbles out and let it absorb there and you will see what I mean.

[ 26. February 2005, 02:30: Message edited by: friendly ]

[planthelper]

many different plants show this reddish tip coloration from time to time.

it's caused by antioxidants,

meaning it's a reaction of the plant against stress (proly just sunlight).

the plant put's antioxidants into those tips for protection, and us humans prefere those reddish tips aswell, because for the health benefits they provide.

basicly the reddish color is the same as the purple in blueberries or the red in strawberries!!

this chemical is called something like "antisinan"

or so.

the red catha edulis is very popular,

it's quite possible that it contains more antioxidants than the green strains.

meaning you get the same goodness of the apple by chewing YOUNG khat tips.

antioxidants have a re juvinating action,

aswell they might have anti cancer potential.

thats why making plants illegal equals mass murder. imagen yemen makes qat illegal, suddenly 70% of the population would miss out on ther daily antioxidant doses.

i go further, maybe cannabis contains powerfull anti cancer components, meaning that prohibition doesn't aid our health, on the contrary, it removed us the possibility to stay healthy!

[Torsten]

planthelper the antioxidants are anthocyanins. But they are not the only reason plants go red. Often this is simply related to phosphate levels and becomes evident in cold weather or wrong pH.

[Tomer Corymbosa]

hello there guys.

ok here in israel we only chew fresh leaves!

there is nothing you can do with dry leaves!

and some sellers here sell capsules of extracted khat - it's called "Hagigat". almost everyone in israel took these capsules they are GREAT!!!!

(Well Being Emotion for 3-4 Hours).

in the first time i took Hagigat i felt like it was Extasi. but one thing wrong in this stuff - your **** can't raise up you are horny but nothing happens down there...but its very nice!!!

[planthelper]

i put the ph, the phosphat levels and the cold into the same "stress" basket...

i didn't say there are no other reasons...

my point was that, i prefere the reddish (i call it caramel shine)leaves because, they are higher in antioxidants, and maybe even other re juvinating goodnes.

[psycho0]

how would u make a khat extract? alcohol xtraction?

i havent even learnt the simple a/b xtraction process yet, i'm so slack!:-)

but y does the red leaf type seem to be drying out while the other 3 species of khat r doing fantastic?

any advice greatly appreciated, thanx!

aaron

[friendly]

The process for producing methacathinone from Catha edulis is fairly simple and can be done at home.

This substance, methacathinone, is said by the authorities (sic) to be much more addicting than methamphetamine, citing a group in the midwest who were producing large amounts but not selling any; they were consuming it all themselves because they found it to be so overpoweringly euphoric. And totally nullifying of the ability to attain an erection in males, something none of them seemed to mind at all.

Supposedly they were all strongly addicted.

This as in the papers here in the USA a few year back; you could probably find it by doing a google for the term methacathinone.

This 'extract' of Catha edulis may well be methacathinone in disguise.

[psycho0]

hypothetically of course but how is it done?

and what about the red khat leaves drying out?

thanx

[Torsten]

friendly - I seriously doubt that statement. Methcathinone is made from pseudoephedrine or ephedrine.

Cathinone *can* be extracted from Catha edulis, but it is very very difficult.

To make methcathinone from catha edulis you would first have to successfully extract the cathinone (which is unlikely) and then put a methyl group on the amine. This could be done, however the reduction required to reduce the intermediate imine would also reduce the ketone to an alcohol and hence would result in ephedrine (or an isomer).

[Torsten]

In rat trials it was shown that methcathinone had the same habit forming potential as methamphetamine.

[zl00j]

Repeat.

[ 28. February 2005, 21:15: Message edited by: zl00j ]

[Rev]

So far i have 3 sources - 2 secondary and one primary that indicate dried khat leaves are still a useful stimulant as a Tea

i guess i should get and try this

(Cathine = norpseudoephedrine = S2 drug = OTC pharmacy medicine)

basically its illegal but for S2 as long as im not selling it i dont think its going to be an issue

[friendly]

T is right; I left out the fact that methacathinone is made from pseudoephedrine and not Catha edulis leaves. My apologies.

[Tryptameanie]

Cathine would likely be less desirable than ephedrine, and much less so than cathinone or methcathinone.

It has the highly polar hydroxyl group of ephedrine (rather than the less polar ketone of cathinone), and no N-methyl group (ie it is to ephedrine what methamphetamine is to plain amphetamine).

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Tryptameanie:

ie it is to ephedrine what methamphetamine is to plain amphetamine).

EXACTLY! Cathine is pretty much a stay awake drug with little or no euphoria and a good chance of anxiety and jitters.

Cathine is however quite stable and dried catha leaves can be consumed for this effect. In it's traditional use region some women make tea from the dried leaves for this purpose.