How do you meditate?

[Tangata Manu]

Hehe.....I find listening to my thoughts to be quite constructive.

If I listen long enough to hear my inner monologue dribble forth streams of random monkey logic I get a chance to contemplate one of the single most important truths in life: MY BRAIN WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR A BIG HAIRLESS MONKEY.

The only other way I get this catharsis sorted is in the aftermath of a huge mistake.

[woof woof woof]

i won't argue with that, i just don't want anyone to think that they're already meditating just by being alive.

my original wording was a bit off with the 'dont kid yourself', i'm sorry about that.

 

I'd actually like contradict that statement.... "we are all meditating just by being allive!" Everyone will eventually find clarity.....

[ThunderIdeal]

i'd like to think in some way that's true. i tend to believe there is a higher consciousness in operation at all times.

stand by what i said though. some go so far as to say you aren't meditating until you are meditating perfectly. i prefer the definition as 'trying to meditate'. being fully absorbed in ego/materialism is just that, even if it does eventually provide a foundation or springboard for refining oneself.

[mutant]

getting more and more interesting...

[t st tantra]

sometimes when using a new meditation tek it will kick in full time and i am meditating all the time.

a raja yoga course did this very powerfully.

t s t .

[drugo]

I'd actually like contradict that statement.... "we are all meditating just by being allive!" Everyone will eventually find clarity.....

 

Us humans tend to breath unconsciously, relying on an autonomic nervous system. Many a meditator knows the value in impregnating breath with mind or awareness, following the breath. Someone recently told me that dolphins must consciously choose to breath, which can be interpreted as a biological necessity to be aware of breathing. A biomystical interface that orders a kind of pranayama. No wonder they tend to be so clever and cheerful.

Edited July 14, 2010 by telepathogen

[Grimm]

A method that's worked for me is sort of rejecting any thought that has been born out of something I've perceived with my senses. Almost like a black hole sucks everything away including itself. So say a word, a picture, a feeling, a doctrine, a method, a way appears - I reject it. These are only imitations of what the senses actually perceived, if that makes sense. It is actually fun at times because after a few minutes (I'm guessing it's a few minutes) the habit just kicks in and I'm left with just being. There are times when this doesn't work though because I'm attached to the method, thinking the method is what is bringing about the happiness or something.

Another method is saying to yourself, "just be". Anything that happens - a thought, feeling etc will just happen and you will witness it. There is no wrong or right way of doing this, the whole point is to just let yourself/things be.. because this will all happen regardless of what you choose to do. You sort of let go and surrender.

Any repetitive task is helpful. I find that household chores help sometimes, even when I feel like I could be doing something BETTER, they end up the better thing. Writing out a word/sentence or drawing a continuous pattern on paper can be helpful for me too.

At times I've played two strings of my guitar and tapped my foot to the rhythm, just listening to the droning notes.

In a similar way, sometimes I drum on my chest with my fingers - a continuous, constant beat. I'm guessing this works similar to a shaman's rattle.

To quieten the mind (a friend suggested this) let out a deep hum or chant. See the difference for yourself. Note how quiet your thoughts are before and after. Above all, I find walking is very good for clearing your head.

You can also playfully imitate a monk (or any religious archetype) to get yourself in the mood to begin. I find reading scriptures puts me in the mind-frame to start, especially if I've slacked off a bit. Anything you're familiar with is best to start with. I find many useful: The Diamond Sutra and Tao te Ching especially.

As others have said, there isn't one way to go about it. In the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, it said how meditation should be personalized and not be seen as a chore. Be creative and make it a personal thing. Anything you do can be a form meditation. Meditation can be 5 seconds or 2 hours long. It's entirely up to you how long your meditation lasts. Start small and build up.

The greatest experiences I've had have happened when I'm fed up and let go of all methods. I can't decide to this though, it's sort of like I've exhausted my intellect. I've stopped trying to get a 'thing'.

Oh and meditation with drugs. It doesn't work for me but try meditation with and without them, that's the only way you'll get the answer.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Grimm

[webby]

yeah but it's an important point your making

i'm not sure how to add, i just want to reiterate that while thinking is sometimes important, most of the time it is STUPID.

it is FUCKING STUPID. if you actually look at your STUPID thoughts for a minute you will realise that this STUPID INNER VOICE never shuts its STUPID HOLE.

i dont think people realise this? or they don't realise the scope of it anyway. it just hums away unnecessarily, blocking out the moment with it's ceaseless, incessant, never-ending STUPID SHIT.

YOU DON'T NEED IT

YOU DON'T NEED TO THINK ALL THE TIME

 

Who is it that witnesses this inner voice ?, that is the only question you need to meditate on.

[selfsufficient]

homunculus?

somewhere i learned the word homuphobic - fear of the homunculus

personally, i cheerfully try to kill that little man, loving him at the same time.

compassionately kill your homunculus

[hutch]

How could you hurt your Homounculus

[kayesem]

Had to read threw the entire massively long Topic until i get to the end... and there at the end.. low and behold Tangata Manu wins the trophy!!

Playing the computer = Meditation.

Riding a bike = Meditation.

Watching Tv = meditation.

Masterbating = meditation.

Doing a Shit = Meditation.

What is meditation?

Meditation is simply concentrating on 1 thing with out distraction,

So you know when you are driving your car and you "Get in the Zone" ... Well you are meditating.

Answer in regards to the original question:

Do i need drugs to meditate?

.....Each to there own..... Fuck the Gurus!! <--

 

I would also have to disagree with these two points. All of those activities mentioned can be done in a state of meditation, but in no way whatsoever do they directly result in achieving a meditative state simply by doing them, as you imply.

You never hear of courses or retreats where the meditation practice schedule is playing computer games, wanking and then some afternoon shitting.

Everything is not so black and white.

Single pointed concentration still implies the use of the mind, and a seperation between the perciever and the percieved. As I see it, having an object or thing to focus on is used in the beginning as a crutch and only until it is no longer needed, with the ultimate 'goal' being the rememberance of 'no mind', and the return to a pure and simple state of just being.

In regards to the OP by Hutch:

Have you had any progress or found more helpful techniques?

Personally, i have been interested in the practice for years but have yet to dedicate myself enough to train the new habit into everyday life. There have been other things also that i felt i have needed to take care of aswell, including substance abuse, insomnia, poor diet and exercise habits, depression etc.

I am slowly but surely improving my health and life situation overall, and almost every day is another opportunity to practice patience, which i need lots of for meditation and almost anything else in life really.

I do not believe that i need chemicals to meditate, but they are a very powerful tool that i find helpful. They take me right to the doorstep and open the way for me so i can freely enter as deeply as i care to. It is no effort whatsoever (while tripping) to enter meditation, it becomes a simple matter of letting go. The more i let go of my mind, the deeper into it i can travel, and paradoxically, the more i feel i am allowed to 'know' or 'understand'.

My limited experience of these states is more than enough inspiration to return to them (either naturally or with psychs) and to attempt integrating the experiences more fully into my normal everyday 'reality'.

A lot of the experiences i have had while on acid or shrooms have lined up with those of my mother (while straight), who meditates every day in the morning. She always says that she found she could go to the same places for free, so stopped taking any psychs back in the day. Also, her experiences are easier to integrate and there is no need for a 12 hour time commitment for a session.

Sounds great to me : ) I find that the hardest part (as with most things) is getting started, overcoming the inertia so to speak. Speaking about it more with my mother recently, she advises that at first, it takes more energy than it gives, but with persistence and time, it soon gives you more energy than it takes.

Cheers

- On a side note, i had a psychiatrist not long ago that kept trying to tell me that it was impossible to have no thoughts at all. We had to agree to disagree on that one, lol. Her argument was that if you were not thinking, it just meant that you were thinking about not thinking : /

[coin]

6 months on - I find it very interesting that really no-one made any comment on my reflection on jhana

I think that says a lot about this forum....or that there are just certain contemplative folk who don't bother making their 'thoughts' known because they know this audience is a lost cause

It's a very generic mix here of people who subscribe to esoteric techniques or those who rely solely on chemicals (neophyte or lazy), and those who subscribe to "no technique" (neo-advaitists)

I really love shaman australis, but why am I never inspired to read 'Spirituality & Philosophy'? i check it every week and there is never anything interesting in terms of practice & progress....how can that be???

What really surprises me -- do we really have no concentration practitioners amongst us? That is a bit scary

Edited January 1, 2011 by coin

[hutch]

6 months on - I find it very interesting that really no-one made any comment on my reflection on jhana

I think that says a lot about this forum....or that there are just certain contemplative folk who don't bother making their 'thoughts' known because they know this audience is a lost cause

It's a very generic mix here of people who subscribe to esoteric techniques or those who rely solely on chemicals (neophyte or lazy), and those who subscribe to "no technique" (neo-advaitists)

I really love shaman australis, but why am I never inspired to read 'Spirituality & Philosophy'? i check it every week and there is never anything interesting in terms of practice & progress....how can that be???

What really surprises me -- do we really have no concentration practitioners amongst us? That is a bit scary

 

sounds like we an't worthy enough to be the cheese on the end of your foreskin....

It's talk like that that turns people away...sorry I just ain't as smartera as you and your concentration practitioners.....

[ThunderIdeal]

somebody gave your post a plus rating. that's kind of a response.

any number of reasons although it does seem everyone has "had enough" of too much spiritual talk here. i read your post at the time, i liked it, sometimes there is just nothing to say.

[woof woof woof]

haha coin! jhana = jhana! what else is there to say brosie. :-)

exactly thunderI! when we stop chatting is when we start getting it. ;-)

Edited January 4, 2011 by woof woof woof

[coin]

yes, there is nothing to say about practice, when a practice is not about mind -- but when it comes to contributing to a community of supposedly spiritual practitioners??

that's my concern -- absence or unwilling to contribute...??? absence, i understand....plants - chemicals - phenomena....that is no understanding of jhana.....jhana is without conditions.....why unwilling to contribute though?? unfortunately, unlikely present...?

[coin]

really i was just hoping to generate a bit more discussion about technique and practice, aside from the usual -- i take x50 mg of mescaline/psilocybin and then meditator is meditation....

okay - fine...and then? does that concentration apply in any eccentric way? does that concentration apply out of x50mg of whatever to develop insight into the nature of everyday phenomena?

sorry hutch - i wasn't meaning to offend anyone no need to discuss my foreskin .. there is none

i'm not trying to be elitist, but yes, i am trying to "shit stir"

Edited January 6, 2011 by coin

[coin]

"when we stop chatting is when we start getting it. ;-)"

Well could you just continue for the sake of the rest of us??!

Starting to get it, is not the getting it -- so come on, keep the discussion flowing

as for "had enough" of spiritual talk here? i actually find it hard to find any! elves, aliens, jesus, binaural beats, plant spirits...no wonder this subforum is so limited

Edited January 6, 2011 by coin

[Magicdirt]

6 months on - I find it very interesting that really no-one made any comment on my reflection on jhana

I think that says a lot about this forum....or that there are just certain contemplative folk who don't bother making their 'thoughts' known because they know this audience is a lost cause

It's a very generic mix here of people who subscribe to esoteric techniques or those who rely solely on chemicals (neophyte or lazy), and those who subscribe to "no technique" (neo-advaitists)

I really love shaman australis, but why am I never inspired to read 'Spirituality & Philosophy'? i check it every week and there is never anything interesting in terms of practice & progress....how can that be???

What really surprises me -- do we really have no concentration practitioners amongst us? That is a bit scary

 

Maybe there's not much feedback because not many have been far enough to understand what you are talking about.

So what stage of Jhana do you feel you've attained ?

I've been through them all but I always found the lines blurred and to me they seem like labels imposed on the meditative state/s by someone that could have been thinking too much whilst meditating.

At other times it has made more sense, but I think it's more the way we perceive those states, as you hinted the memory of those states fades quickly after the meditation stops.

I've read that you progress through the states in order enter into deeper and deeper states but it never worked like that for me especially when I had a broken vertebra in my back, I needed pain relief as painkillers weren't working, so I could quickly attain a state where pain wasn't relevant and all the other earlier stages were bypassed. Some people do go through in a logical progression but I don't think it has to work that way.

I always found once I get to about the 7th, but just thinking about being there drags me right back, how do you perceive that state without conscious thought ?

It's a paradox in a way, how do you know you're there unless you think about it ?

I realise it's best to think about stuff like that in retrospect after the meditation session, but sometimes I can't help thinking about it whilst I'm doing it, maybe I need more practice ?

I can quickly enter a state equivalent to the fifth jhana by circulating the microcosmic orbit in Qi Gong and the other states seem to just be bypassed, maybe I go through them but I'm just not conscious of them.

I prefer Qi Gong to reach those states as I've never been conditioned to attach labels to them in Qi Gong, so for me it's easier to just be in that state that way. In Qi Gong they come almost as a side effect and aren't the main focus.