Pacha Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Hey there, could you please help me ID these beauties. Thanks Edited January 18, 2010 by Pacha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 paradox Posted October 15, 2009 i'm definitely not a loph expert but my opinion is that the first one is definitely williamsii, the second one is definitely NOT williamsii! i'm thinking diffusa... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Ace Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Although the second does have the lighter skin colour/texture that looks similar to diffusa, the areoles do not look typical for a diffusa of that size/age - diffusa tend to look more 'dumpling' like and less 'chunky' (for lack of a better word). For a side by side comparison see this pic. Williamsii on left and diffusa right. For what it's worth, I had one that looked pretty much identical as the on in the right in Pacha's post. From memory it was SAB stocked williamsii seed. As a result, I'd say both are williamsii, with a possible hybrid in the one on the right (likely to be williXdiff or diffXwilli). ID would only really be confirmed (or at least as much as possible) from flower colour. Either way, she's a nice looker! Edited for clarity Edited October 15, 2009 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Pacha Posted October 15, 2009 Although the second does have the lighter skin colour/texture that looks similar to diffusa, the areoles do not look typical for a diffusa of that size/age - diffusa tend to look more 'dumpling' like and less 'chunky' (for lack of a better word). For a side by side comparison see this pic. Williamsii on left and diffusa right. For what it's worth, I had one that looked pretty much identical as the on in the right in Pacha's post. From memory it was SAB stocked williamsii seed. As a result, I'd say both are williamsii, with a possible hybrid in the one on the right (likely to be williXdiff or diffXwilli). ID would only really be confirmed (or at least as much as possible) from flower colour. Either way, she's a nice looker! Edited for clarity Thank you Ace for clearing things up, the subject is very confusing indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Chiral Posted October 15, 2009 I agree with ace although I'm no expert either ...left Diffusa and right Williansii. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 paradox Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) I agree with ace although I'm no expert either ...left Diffusa and right Williansii. isn't that the other way round? edit: ace i agree when you say about diffusa being a bit like a dumpling lol. the second one does have a kind of angular chunkyness to it that makes it look more like williamsii, but the skin colour & rib structure made me lean towards diffusa. i'd agree that perhaps it's a X. in your opinion is the rib structure consistent with diffusa? willi's tend to have more defined straight ribs no? Edited October 16, 2009 by xodarap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Chiral Posted October 16, 2009 isn't that the other way round? LOL..I misread Ace's post...was still wipin sleep outta my eyes when I read that. .but my original guess I stand by..diffusa on the left and Williamsii on the right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 KanJe Posted October 16, 2009 LOL..I misread Ace's post...was still wipin sleep outta my eyes when I read that. .but my original guess I stand by..diffusa on the left and Williamsii on the right. I'm curious, what in your eyes are the distinguishing factors for that ID? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Chiral Posted October 16, 2009 I'm curious, what in your eyes are the distinguishing factors for that ID? THIS LINK Lophora difusa Mature Williamsii in the wild. Like I said I'm no expert I'm am just giving my opinion from reading and browsing the net...on another forum some pics of my own lophs were shown and ID'd as something I didn't know about therefore leading me on a merry dance around the net trying to learn and spot differences between the different varieties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Ace Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) Chrial, I think that link would be best avoided - not only did they misspell the species name ('difusa' should be diffusa), but both photos in the link are williamsii Your second photo (the mature clumps) are definately williamsii, and so is the young singular button in the first photo. The reason why they look so different is because williamsii tend to start with just 5 ribs and will stay that way until their 'adolescent' stage, when they begin to develop more ribs. In their adult stage (your clumped photo), they have anywhere between 8 and 13 well defined ribs, each with well defined areoles (see the prominent lines under each tuft of hair). Ribs are usually quite straight, however there are many plants with a beautiful spiralling pattern in their ribs. Diffusa (refer to the photo in Post 3, right hand image, and the image in THIS LINK, which shows both very mature and rather immature heads), on the other hand, have 'diffuse' (or undefined) ribs, until very old age. Only in very old age will they develop 'ribs', however they have a pattern more akin to a pinecone, rather than the bold individual ribs of williamsii. This is a reason for the recent thoughts about dividing the Lophophora family into 2 sections - Williamsii and Diffusae. Williamsii is quite unlike the other species in the family. The other three species, diffusa, fricii and koehresii all have similar traits and could be placed into the 'diffusae' section. This is discussed in further depth in the Kaktusy Lophophora Coultar handbook, if you are able to get a copy (it was online a while ago). Edited October 17, 2009 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 kadakuda Posted October 23, 2009 well said ace. Pacha, both are williamsii. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hey there, could you please help me ID these beauties. Thanks
Edited by PachaShare this post
Link to post
Share on other sites