God is not the Creator

[santiago]

i dont get your post 24#maurice, if your going to quote me make sure you get it right, your own statements are buried within my supposed quote.

[reptyle]

The funny thing about the word "bara" is that if u were to look up synonyms i believe you might read the following

Bara: to create meaning; to separate into recogniseable categories; to DEFINE as; to describe attributes of; to witness aspects or perspectives within events.

a word is a multifold encompassing of conceptions, breeding interpretations.

peace.

[The Jamanoid]

Everyone is the creator unto their own universe/plane of existence.

This, is my theory.

[t st tantra]

bara,spacially seperate, sounds like the formation of the ether to me?

some links......

http://www.psyche.com/psyche/genesis/genesis1_1-5.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereishit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_according_to_Genesis

t s t .

nexus magazine article states 'great barabi' to be an old name for the sphinx.....arab in it caught my interest.....dont know why i've latched on to this for some time now....

Edited October 13, 2009 by t st tantra

[Maurice]

For scholarly responses to the press release see

http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/anc...-genesis-1.html

http://clayboy.co.uk/2009/10/the-end-of-cr...k-not/#comments

[t st tantra]

my initial reaction to the original article was why is she equating earth with the planet earth and not as,say,matter[solid stuff]?.....just seemed silly to me...

t s t .

[Mycot]

Referring to the first post this reminds me of the Egyptian myth of where the earth is separated from the heavens. The image of Nu held up and arching over the earth.

Since hebraic religion is thought by some authorities to have its origins in Egypt it quiet makes sense.

[Maurice]

Referring to the first post this reminds me of the Egyptian myth of where the earth is separated from the heavens. The image of Nu held up and arching over the earth.

Since hebraic religion is thought by some authorities to have its origins in Egypt it quiet makes sense.

the Hebrews, no doubt, were Pharoah's slaves, however, polytheism IS NOT the religion of the Hebrews.

Abraham and Moses were well versed in the evils of Egypt, including slavery, incest, etc.

The monotheism that abraham took to the world, was revelation, not learned from the Egyptians.

Note that Christianity IS NOT monotheism, and to describe Western religious tradition (even though it is Asian)

as Judao-Christianity is deeply offensive to Jews, as is the image of a crucifix, which was a tool of mass murder

by the Romans against Jews of Juruselem. The Jewish religion is a legal religion, which is completely different from Christianity.

eg. No priests, against the Law to convert non-Jews, etc, etc, etc.

Furthermore, in a recent interview by Phillip Adams (LNL), his guest explained that the order of Gd's creation

according to Genesis, is as science reveals the order of development of life via evolution!

[nabraxas]

he Hebrews, no doubt, were Pharoah's slaves, however, polytheism IS NOT the religion of the Hebrews.

polytheism wasn't always the religion ov the Egyptians either.

open the Bible to Psalm 104, the great manifesto of God's all-encompassing power, and read how He created grass for cattle to eat, and trees for birds to nest in, and the sea for ships to sail and fish to swim in:

Bless the Lord . . . you who coverest thyself with light as with a garment . . .

Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; . . .

He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and . . . the trees

Where the birds make their nests; as for the stork, the fir trees are her house.

The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats; . . .

(As) the sun ariseth, (the beasts) gather themselves together . . .

There go the ships: there is that leviathan (whale), whom thou hast made to play therein.

And then among the remains of Amarna culture you read the Hymn to the Aten, purportedly written by Akhenaten himself, which says:

When the land grows bright and you are risen from the Akhet (horizon) and shining in the sun-disk by day, . . .

All flocks (are) at rest on their grasses, trees and grasses flourishing;

Birds flown from their nest, their wings in adoration of your life-force;

All flocks prancing on foot, all that fly and alight living as you rise for them;

Ships going downstream and upstream too, every road open at your appearance;

Fish on the river leaping to your face, your rays even inside the sea. (trans. James P. Allen)

The similarity is simply astounding. Comparing these passages, who could argue against some form of cultural exchange moving from Egypt to Israel—and, given the chronology, we must suppose the sharing took place in that direction—how can we avoid the conclusion that the ancient Hebrew who wrote Psalm 104 has somehow borrowed from Akhenaten's Hymn to the Aten?

http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&...ers/10AKHEN.htm

[Maurice]

polytheism wasn't always the religion ov the Egyptians either.

http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&...ers/10AKHEN.htm

The link doesn't work.

However, I'm sure you would have read psalm 104, before posting, and realize the difference.

Even just from the quote, it is obvious, psalm 104 is in worship of Gd (creator) and the Egyptian quote

is in worship of the sun (the created). I can't see the similarity Nabraxus?

[Mycot]

Akhenaten was the son of Amenhotep III and his chief Queen, Tiy. He ruled Egypt between the years of 1379 and 1362 BCE, a total of approximately sixteen years. He was also the husband of the historically famed beauty, Nefertiti.

The most prominent thought that comes to the mind of historians when they hear the name Akhenaten is "monotheism." That is, the belief in a single god. Akhenaten is often credited with the invention of this religious form.

Read more: http://egyptian-history.suite101.com/artic...n#ixzz0U4DObSMM

[Maurice]

Akhenaten was the son of Amenhotep III and his chief Queen, Tiy. He ruled Egypt between the years of 1379 and 1362 BCE, a total of approximately sixteen years. He was also the husband of the historically famed beauty, Nefertiti.

The most prominent thought that comes to the mind of historians when they hear the name Akhenaten is "monotheism." That is, the belief in a single god. Akhenaten is often credited with the invention of this religious form.

Read more: http://egyptian-history.suite101.com/artic...n#ixzz0U4DObSMM

Interesting, however Abraham predates Akhenaten by at least 500 years.

[reptyle]

Ok...Lets talk about the light bringer...in the context of creators ship, the moulder of blankness, deliverer of meaning and structure, primary cause of existence.

Interestingly enough, the field which is God, essentially formless, functionless and event-less exists in harmony with nothingness...the womb into which the spirit becomes life, the driving force behind creation is the option to desire, this desire arises out of disconnection, breaking the union to follow needs and wants and spurring the formless into action, the products of this action are name and form, sensation, and life. From these essentially meritoriously in-differentiable elements is born personality and judgment. The primary cause of existence being primary and conscious holds its identity as valuable to preserve as a result of its disconnection and yearning for contacts, this desire to survive gives rise to the refusal to submit ones own personal will to that of the other, though when unified is seamless, addiction to form, this refusal drives the greatness to overwhelm the personalized identity and dissolve it into submission...the refusal to submit is always forgiven by the all accepting, dispassionate and depersonalized field of God.

This forgiveness bring power to satisfy through knowledge of union and its expressions through completed desires and fulfilled cycles of wanting...the magnitude of the being and its ability to provide for the will of the greater unity is proportionate to the magnitude of the union...the light bringer, being primary works against the inequality, and needless suffering so foreign to those in complete union.

[FancyPants]

Maybe a neanderthal child asked where he came from and daddy had to make up some BS to satisfy Grog's curiosity.

[Thelema]

There's a hell of a lot of crap here.

We could interpret the good lady's words as basically saying that God is the nexus of discrimination.

Stuff all the Nick-Cave bulldust you're all going through.

[nabraxas]

Actually, if we are being fair, we cannot assume the isrealites were monotheistic pre-moses merely based upon their recognition of Yaweh being "their" God through Abraham and Jacob. Recognizing their ancestral "tribal" god isn't much of a case for supporting a monotheistic belief system, and frankly we don't actually know much about the pre-mosaic religion of Abraham, Jacob, or even Adam & Eve ( ). Given their propensity for polytheism even during the exodus, it seems to me that the concept of pure Monotheism (rather than polytheism, pantheism, or Henotheism) appears to be rather alien to the majority of the exilic isrealites...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?...1272&page=2

[Maurice]

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?...1272&page=2

UNFAIR to quote mine nabraxas, particularly when your outside the tradition of the Jews.

Also especially, because I assume you have not read Torah.

Read this from the inside-

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/...-Monotheism.htm

[Mycot]

It seems to me that the ancient Israelites were far from strictly monotheistic. While religious belief may dictate otherwise, there is much modern scholarship showing elements of polytheism in ancient israel and of monotheism being a later evolution.

Yhwh was partly worshiped under Canaanitish forms, and partly replaced by the Canaanitish deities (Baalim, etc.).

Each tribe in Israel had its tribal god (see, for instance, Dan; Gad; Asher). Nevertheless from a very remote period these tribes recognized their affinity to one another by the fact that above their own tribal god they acknowledged allegiance to Yhwh.

Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...m#ixzz0UA75rMJD

[Mycot]

Interesting, however Abraham predates Akhenaten by at least 500 years.

While this may be true we have no records from this time.

[woof woof woof]

why is God imaginary? or is God just a easy way to describe a complex (lets just say THE ALL EMCOMPASSING) part of everything? Therefore having personality as it is the part that shapes our personalities......

YOu can deduce it all down one step further..... that is that it is all a BIG MYSTERY.

have illusions, you could say that it is it's imaginary.

'imaginary God' is actually an intersting one... As you could say that it's all just energetic particals and be stuck with that concept and therefore think it's all not personal or it has no personality. That is also a way of looking at it. buddhists may agree with this concept a bit more then a personal God.

I say......... whatever chokes your chicken best! Both ways will help you gain insight into your life.

For me the personal God idea works best. What can I say... the voice of unconditional love and understanding I hear as an intuitive 'voice'..... and that is very personal.

[Maurice]

Gd Is, I Am, = Bliss.

Or

See everything (including the Space between & around objects) as Gd,

AND don't try and figure it out! = Bliss

[paradox]

i don't really personally get all the talk of god... isn't the whole thing we're talking about just our own personal relationship with the infinite ineffablness. it's the subjective experience of the releationship between the infinite mysterious weirdness & the dualistic experience of our individuality. it can't be measured. & i don't understand why acknowlegement & freedom to subjectively experience these things which we don't understand, yet affect our lives in many ways should be anyway opposed science.

[Maurice]

i don't really personally get all the talk of god... isn't the whole thing we're talking about just our own personal relationship with the infinite ineffablness. it's the subjective experience of the releationship between the infinite mysterious weirdness & the dualistic experience of our individuality. it can't be measured. & i don't understand why acknowlegement & freedom to subjectively experience these things which we don't understand, yet affect our lives in many ways should be anyway opposed science.

Because to talk about Gd is joyful.

[FancyPants]

Because to talk about Gd is joyful.

And because many people need to define "God" as an actual singular entity to better come together and either create or destroy in His name.

Would Holy Wars exist if only small groups believed in the exact same God?

Edit: vvvv good point.

Edited October 20, 2009 by FancyPants

[Maurice]

And because many people need to define "God" as an actual singular entity to better come together and either create or destroy in His name.

Would Holy Wars exist if only small groups believed in the exact same God?

I write Gd because of the ineffability of.

Would any war exist if people started work on the war in their own mind?

Wars have always existed, for countless reasons, but that doesn't stop you

talking about property, wealth, women, etc, etc.

Anyway, this is an entheogenic movement, thus that is what we talk about,

Gd, and yes I do find it joyful!