What is consciousness?

[reptyle]

Conciousness is a place.

It is the playground of the unconcious.

It is within the pleroma.

Gifts can be valued or destroyed and Santa doesnt care what you do with your lump of coal, maybe burn it and inhale the sweet sweet vapour with your lung tree.

Also how do you destory consciousness?

<istakes are for spelling thoughts.

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peace is like a cake, which you never get the choice not to eat.

[botanika]

Picture a hum without any sound

[cycle]

I dunno.

But recently a thought occured to me that consciousness is its simplest form must include some self reflection. It also occured to me that if someone can figure out how to trick a computer into self reflecting it would soon become automous AI. Sort of off topic sorry but I think it's relevant to trying to get at this question, which is impossible to answer but also possibly hard wired into us.

Great discussion.

[oface]

Is being self-conscious a requisite for being conscious in general?

I'm inclined to think that it isn't, but I'm not entirely wedded to the idea.

I'm semi-comfortable with the idea that a vending machine or something, for example, possesses a kind of consciousness.

[Gunter]

What do you think the term is trying to represent?

In this case, nothing.

It is totally abstract and paradoxical.

[nabraxas]

According to Trika, the Absolute Reality, or Paramashiva ("Supreme Godhead") polarises into Static Consciousness or Shiva and the dynamic Power of Consciousness or Shakti. Shiva and Shakti together constitute Universal Divine Existence; the Manifest Godhead as opposed to the Unmanifest Paramshiva. Shiva is of the nature of Prakasha or the pure Light of Consciousness, about which it is said in the Katha Upanishad:

"It shining, every thing happens to shines. By its light alone does all this appear."

quoted in Jaideva Singh, Pratyabhijnahrdayam, p.5 (Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1980)

It is only through the Light of Consciousness that things exist, there being, in Kashmir Shaivite philosophy, no existence apart from non-dual Consciousness (or Chit). Shiva is also the principle of Universal I-ness (Aham)

http://kheper.net/topics/Trika/emanation.htm

http://www.shivashakti.com/

Edited August 20, 2009 by nabraxas

[reptyle]

So Shiva is the field and Shakti the dancer in the field...and their intercourse is consciousness>? or witnessing their intercourse is consciousness? or witnessing the witnessing is the intercourse?

I still think its a place you can visit if you set your trajectory through the unconscious correctly...

blessings.

[sethomopod]

Picture a hum without any sound

... I tend to agree.. Frequency is a universal constant, in every reach of the infinite(universe) Vibration is our window to the infinite... i.e: vibration determines matter.. how we perceive our place in the universe through all our senses which are vibrating to their own frequency.. The basic principle that a rock is always moving... just very very very slowly.. then to different layers (dimensions) of our spiritual selves.. all vibrating at different frequencies just as the universe intended... All coming together for a monumental "chord" of existence.....

so maybe........... if frequency is a universal constant........... consciousness is "our note in the chord"?... maybe a part of ourselves vibrating at a level only measurable in other dimensions? but energy, frequency nonetheless...

I'm sorry if this sounds like rambling.. Language, as intricate as it can be.. can never convey the entirety of thought..

Edited August 21, 2009 by sethomopod

[Thelema]

OK..so..frequency, constancy, universality, infinity, principles, Shiva, Shakti, trika, representation, self-reflection, self-consciousness...

All these terms posit some entity be it abstract or concrete, that figures pre-analysis to the explanation of consciousness.

My thought is: Are you all really happy with that situation? That consciousness can really be constructed from those terms? Which are you more sure of? The premises or the conclusion?

[sethomopod]

OK..so..frequency, constancy, universality, infinity, principles, Shiva, Shakti, trika, representation, self-reflection, self-consciousness...

All these terms posit some entity be it abstract or concrete, that figures pre-analysis to the explanation of consciousness.

My thought is: Are you all really happy with that situation? That consciousness can really be constructed from those terms? Which are you more sure of? The premises or the conclusion?

This is a good point Thelema..("All these terms posit some entity be it abstract or concrete, that figures pre-analysis to the explanation of consciousness". Sorry, I dont know how to highlight parts of quotes.) I would love to hear any other theories...I guess this is why the greatest minds havent answered this question...(Like trying to quantify "GOD") I think it is in our mortal make-up to pre-analyze, even if it is a choice to then dis regard the analysis for the best of reasons.. From the moment of our conception, we are in the hands of "a beginning and an end". we know nothing else while we are flesh. This is why our little minds cant integrate INFINITY. The same reason all religions humanize the creation of the universe,, to allow our little minds to nearly, just nearly almost begin to glimpse the shadow of understanding it all... to put it in terms we understand...... Just like what you said,,,,, abstact or concrete, we are somehow trying to explain something that cannot be understood with our conventional faculties..... What are your thoughts?

I hope we are on the same page??

[t st tantra]

i assume we think animals are conscious.....we can render them unconscious!

so is there some difference between animal and human consciousness?and if so what?

t s t .

[botanika]

i assume we think animals are conscious.....we can render them unconscious!

so is there some difference between animal and human consciousness?and if so what?

t s t .

I was a German sheperd in a past life and I can tell you all I ever thought about was 'what smell is that?! What was that sound? Think I'll go and sniff that cute blonde retrievers arse'.

Seriously though, I'm just guessing here but after watching nature doco's all my life it's hard to imagine even basic lifeforms are not thinking about what they're doing on some level...it may be based around the core of survival(eat grass, move under tree for shade) likely pushed along by the subconscious because they are decisions/behaviours that are repeated over and over throughout vast time frames. Humans, unlike most animals, live in a more abstract world with everchanging stimulus. This everchanging stimulus, in addition to survival and cultural instinct, perhaps relies heavily on the conscious mind as a sort of drawing board to map more complex decisions and concepts. A dolphin is very intelligent but it may not need a powerful consciousness - it's basically doing the same thing as it's ancestors. A human has to learn not only about basic survival but complex concepts, systems and technology that are always changing and often very different from what ancestors had to manage. So consciousness could also be described an apparatus that deals with the 'new' and subconsciouss with the 'old'. Humans as such have a highly complicated conscious mind because we are frontier pushers, invaders, explorers, creative, thinkers... We are always dealing with 'new'. The other idea is whether consciousness is limited to the brain or is also present in other organs such as the heart.

Edited August 25, 2009 by botanika

[ThunderIdeal]

hmm good overall point.

in response to your last sentence, there are a number of ganglion throughout the body that may at least make up part of our mind if not consciousness.

[Thelema]

and then you've got the whole OBE thing happening in the parietal lobe; I remember being exhausted from walking about 80km over 3 days, with about 5 hours sleep a night and very poor food. I finally rested my head and began a head-to-toe scan feet upwards. About an hour later I suddenly realised that my "consciousness" or sense of identity was resident in the palm of my right hand! - and had been for at least 20 minutes! Freaky!

But I think there should be some other word than "consciousness" to designate what's going on here, maybe a phrase like "temporary locus dysmorphia".

[t st tantra]

what is unconsciousness?

every night i loose consciousness but its back at a later time.....amazing.....i see the life/death/rebirth thing as analagous.....

i still exist without being conscious from the body sense.

but sleep is not unconsciousness if we can dream?and then there is ketamine and such....

t s t .

Edited August 25, 2009 by t st tantra

[botanika]

what is unconsciousness?

every night i loose consciousness but its back at a later time.....amazing.....i see the life/death/rebirth thing as analagous.....

i still exist without being conscious from the body sense.

but sleep is not unconsciousness if we can dream?and then there is ketamine and such....

t s t .

Yeah it's amazing we hardly ever remember the transition either - one minute your lying in bed thinking about something and then you wake and it's morning. I sometimes feel myself falling rapidly into sleep and jerk myself back awake - it's a weird feeling because suddenly your conscious mind is aware of loosing itself and it does a quick double take. Or when your half asleep, somewhat aware of the room, knowing your in a dream and able to control the dream to certain degrees. It's like your both awake and asleep at the same time - hypnotic state. Like your about to shag Elle mcpherson (when she was 20) after winning the lotto and your conscious mind interjects 'really this is happening?!' and then you unfortunately wake up... or sleeping sporadically on a plane...lucid dreaming but still aware your mouth is wide open and you've made some gargling noises while the cute air hostess walked by

Edited August 26, 2009 by botanika