catuaba bulk australia

[Thelema]

Lokin for 1kg supplies of catuaba within australia, does anyone know of any suppliers?

[Alchemica]

http://www.medicinegarden.com.au/searchres...riteria=catuaba

$96/kg

[Torsten]

There are at least 2 species that have the name catuaba harvested int he same area and which are unrelated. The Erythroxylum catuaba/vaccinifolium is quite expensive and much harder to harvest which is why it is rarely found in trade. Only suppliers willing to pay top dollar for their imports are likely to get the right species. This is highly unlikely for medicine garden and in fact 2 samples I got from them about 8 and 4 years ago were both not E. catuaba.

I think this would be a good example where a traditional remedy should be sold under its traditional name 'catuaba' rather the botanical name 'E.catuaba' which adds a layer of accuracy that simply isn't there. But I think Thelema thinks making such traditional remedies available with an uncertain name is unethical and hence selling the product as E.catuaba is much more to his liking - even if he gets the wrong stuff it seems

[Alchemica]

Thanks for pointing that out - remember buying the stuff in 50g bags from Happy High Herbs (Medicine Garden brand) that definitely had "Erythroxylum catuaba" written on the package about a year or so ago - another deceptive marketing ploy I guess...

( http://users.cyberone.com.au/bwalters/rare...lum_catuaba.htm seems to be a good confusion remover if anyone else is like me)

Edited August 15, 2009 by Alchemica

[Torsten]

not deceptive, just ignorant. Many importers who don't know their products and have little botanical knowledge can only go by what the exporter tells them. Exporters often have no botanical knowledge and simply state what they think is the botanical equivalent name to the traditional name.

That's what I mean by 'adding a layer of accuracy'. You can't go from a traditional name that has several potential ingredients or adulterants to a botanical name without seeing the plant or havin an analyst classify the material. It's even sillier if that traditional name is then actually the item requested like it is in this thread. One must assume [after the rants about traditional names in the other thread] that thelema is not looking for 'catuaba' the traditional remedy, but rather one of the several botanical name synonyms. Next thing he might even ask for 'white light'!

The medicine garden catuaba was analysed by a botanical analyst friend of mine in the USA to be most likely Anemopaegma mirandum - a member of the Bignonaceae family rather than the Erythoxylaceae.

[Thelema]

I think this would be a good example where a traditional remedy should be sold under its traditional name 'catuaba' rather the botanical name 'E.catuaba' which adds a layer of accuracy that simply isn't there. But I think Thelema thinks making such traditional remedies available with an uncertain name is unethical and hence selling the product as E.catuaba is much more to his liking - even if he gets the wrong stuff it seems

I did not ask for E/Catuaba specifically-although I must admit that I did not know that there were false "catuabas" being sold. I thank you for this, it will make me more alert when purchasing and researching. Of course, labelling things with the wrong botanic name is completely different than labelling something with a generic name of uncertain botanical source. I have no idea why these 2 things should seem similar to you- other than to segue from another neurotic post from another thread..RU trolling me?

On the contrary, I think this example exemplifies why traditional remedies should be sold under their botanic name. Vendors would be less likely to sell false catuaba as E.Catuaba if the constituents had to be declared.

[Thelema]

BTW if it was not clear b4, I'm actually looking for 1kg of erythroxylum catuaba. Just to make it clear.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Thelema

[Torsten]

On the contrary, I think this example exemplifies why traditional remedies should be sold under their botanic name. Vendors would be less likely to sell false catuaba as E.Catuaba if the constituents had to be declared.

You demand that they are SOLD under botanical name, but you are forgetting that most harvesting is done by people who do not know botanical names. So with many of these jungle remedies you will start off with a common name and this is then translated to a botanical name - often wrongly. A perfect example is cat's claw. In the amazon 2 species are used for this. One was overharvested so these days U. guinense is the primary species exported. However, despite it being the source of over 80% of commercial cat's claw products and always listed as U.tomentosa, you will not find this name on ANY documents. neither export documents nor sales documents.

This false accuracy is caused by the demand from quarantine, importers, pharma companies, and thelemas to label something with an accuracy and certainty that doesn't exist at the source. Wouldn't it be better to simply sell it as cat's claw or una de gato, rather than as Uncaria tomentosa, which is isn't ?

As for your catuaba enquiry, I doubt you will find the real thing in australia. In fact I can almost guarantee it as no one in this country imports on the basis of quality, but rather on the basis of cost.

[Thelema]

Thanks, I'm beginning to see your point with regards to using traditional labelling systems not being over-prioritized by western botanic naming systems. And I see that, in the instance with cat's-claw, things may be improperly named in the first place even when using western botanic namings - which sort of renders my criticism flat when it goes to accurately naming traditional remedies. Of course, idealistically speaking, everything would be labelled so that the botanical product could be recreated by a third party, by whatever taxonomy - that's the ideal, which at the moment seems unrealistic for both naming systems.

Is there a problem importing erythroxylum catuaba [ie vacciniifolium etc] given it is an erythroxylum-i'm sure there is in some states.

[Torsten]

Most states and the feds only have problems with members of the genus that contain cocaine. NSW is the only state as far as I know that pisses itself over every species in the genus.

btw, not sure if raintree has the plain herb for sale, but they were one of the first commercial entities to document the different species used and their business model is built around proper plant ID. they might be able to help you with a source for plain herb if they don't have it.

[HolographicYou]

Revisiting an old thread my annoy some people but it seems fitting to ask here, is it legal to import E.catuaba bark (or whatever it may actually be) into Australia? I've looked all over the relevant sites but can't find any mention of it.