Skunk cannabis can make well users psychotic: study

[faustus]

"a new British study has proved conclusively" -- nothing irks me more than saying that science has "proven" something.

but i'll try dig up the actual paper later

****

http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/skunk-...90728-dzqt.html

Skunk cannabis can make well users psychotic: study

July 28, 2009 - 3:08PM

Potent cannabis can cause psychosis in healthy people, a new British study has proved conclusively.

The results appear to confirm a link between psychosis and skunk cannabis, which accounts for 80 per cent of street seizures of the drug.

Scientists at the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College London made the discovery after tests on 22 healthy men in their late 20s.

They injected them with the chemical THC - a main component of skunk cannabis which has been blamed for increasing psychosis among heavy users.

Scientists gave a dummy injection to some of the men and a dose of THC to others. They found a link between the chemical and psychosis, in which hallucinations leave sufferers unable to know what is real and what is imagined. The team, led by Dr Paul Morrison, concluded: "These findings confirm that THC can induce a transient acute psychological reaction in psychiatrically well individuals."

Researchers found that the "extent of psychotic reaction" was not related to "the degree of anxiety or cognitive impairment" in the men.

Mary Brett, vice-president of Europe Against Drugs, an advisory group, said: "This shows that anyone who is healthy can become psychotic by smoking cannabis. They don't already have to have a mental illness."

The potency of skunk cannabis had risen from six per cent THC (Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) content in 1995 to 14 per cent in 2005. It had been linked to increased instances of psychosis, particularly among young men.

Today's skunk cannabis has virtually no traces of another chemical, called CBD (cannabidiol), which appears to counteract the damaging effects of THC.

The research is the first time that the dangers of skunk cannabis have been tested in Britain. Previous experiments were carried out in America, Holland and Brazil.

Dr Morrison said the findings offered "additional evidence that can elicit temporary psychotic-like effects in some people", but stopped short of suggesting they proved a direct link between psychosis and THC. He added: "Much more research is needed to clarify if skunk is actually more harmful than traditional cannabis."

More work was also needed on the benefits of CBD in balancing the results of THC, he said.

Earlier this year, Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary at the time, restored cannabis from class C to class B status after concerns about adverse health effects, against the advice of drugs experts.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We have always been clear that cannabis is a harmful drug which should not be taken. Its use can lead to physical and psychological harms, and the mental health effects of cannabis use are real and significant.

"We are taking comprehensive action to tackle cannabis use, from increased enforcement to reduce the supply, along with effective education and early intervention for those most at risk," he added.

Edited July 28, 2009 by faustus

[botanika]

Its not an issue if you enjoy the feeling of pychosis

Edited July 28, 2009 by botanika

[Neoshaman]

My arguement would be that the inactive cannbinols and cannabinoids counteract some of THC's more negative aspects so injecting people with THC holds very little weight IMO in trying to determine the effects of the plant consumed as a whole CBD and CBN as far as I'm aware are in every plant and I would be quite intrested to see any study that proves beyond doubt any different i would also argue there are a myriad of other 'inactive' chemicals in pot that aid with the body's handling of the THC compound the study IMO is quite flawed as with all studies investigating cannabis use and is just another piece of propaganda to try and reenforce the ridiculous ideals of brainless fucking morons who support the war on drugs

Edited July 28, 2009 by neoshaman

[Neoshaman]

My arguement would be that the inactive cannbinols and cannabinoids counteract some of THC's more negative aspects so injecting people with THC holds very little weight IMO in trying to determine the effects of the plant consumed as a whole CBD and CBN as far as I'm aware are in every plant and I would be quite intrested to see any study that proves beyond doubt any different i would also argue there are a myriad of other 'inactive' chemicals in pot that aid with the body's handling of the THC compound the study IMO is quite flawed as with all studies investigating cannabis use and is just another piece of propaganda to try and reenforce the ridiculous ideals of brainless fucking morons who support the war on drugs

In saying that legalisation would allow for monitoring of THC & CBD to be monitored and rated but then again i wouldn't expect anything from this country's leaders or any other for that matter which make drugs safer for the people who use them

[apothecary]

I reckon this demonisation of THC and "skunk" in the UK is going to come back and bite them right on the butt.

Can't wait.

[Μορφέας]

oh wow are you really surprised that a 'TRANSIENT STATE OF PSYCHOSIS' can be achieved through IV of large doses of THC?

1/ Once the IV thc is removed the psychosis goes

2/ Possibly more then 99.9999999% of cannabis users DO NOT IV THC making the study somewhat irrelevant?

I'm sure if I IV'd any numerous readily available compounds in a large enough dose that I could reach a state of psychosis haha

[apothecary]

oh wow are you really surprised that a 'TRANSIENT STATE OF PSYCHOSIS' can be achieved through IV of large doses of THC?

1/ Once the IV thc is removed the psychosis goes

2/ Possibly more then 99.9999999% of cannabis users DO NOT IV THC making the study somewhat irrelevant?

I'm sure if I IV'd any numerous readily available compounds in a large enough dose that I could reach a state of psychosis haha

The research is the first time that the dangers of skunk cannabis have been tested in Britain. Previous experiments were carried out in America, Holland and Brazil

What is essentially an identical study was also completed two or three years ago in Sweden or Switzerland or something using orally ingestible THC solution (probably containing some lipids or something).

The result was identical.

Why am I unsurprised

1. that hospitalising people and giving them large amounts of pure psychoactive compounds can cause psychosis?

2. that some UK scientist felt the urge to replicate this experiment (aka the world is probably out that grant money is readily available for anyone willing to do the dirty on "skunk cannabis")?

3. that what is a blatantly obvious smear campaign against cannabis use (following its initial status downgrade from class B to C in the UK followed by the re-upgrade back to class B before Tony Blairs ass had even hit the door on the way out) by the UK Home Office continues?

Edited July 28, 2009 by apothecary

[eexpee]

Yeah but they exhibited psychosis when given too much...when the high wore off im sure they returned to normal - which they didn't clearly state anyway. Just like someone on acid, they can seem totally psychotic, but when they come down everything is back to the way it was. What they really should have concluded is that: while under the influence of high doses of IV THC one can exhibit the signs of psychosis. Which everyone knows anyway....

Though I do have to admit, some cannabis these days is just way to strong. The anxiety doesn't appear with bush, but smoke some skunk from the streets and you get panic attacks and all...well, some of the time.

[mu!]

i dunno what smoke you guys get, but pretty much all my friends who smoke 'skunk' or hydro or watever you wanna call it, they just get STONED! these are ppl who've grown up with hydro. the only ppl who i hear complain about the stuff are old ppl around their 30s, or non-heavy dope smokers

[apothecary]

i dunno what smoke you guys get, but pretty much all my friends who smoke 'skunk' or hydro or watever you wanna call it, they just get STONED! these are ppl who've grown up with hydro. the only ppl who i hear complain about the stuff are old ppl around their 30s, or non-heavy dope smokers

I have recently heard from someone on these forums they think in fact it was bush that gave them mental problems, rather than hydro.

[t st tantra]

imho......some gross generalisations......

the indica /sativa variation is as relavent as hydro/ bush.....most hydro is indica...hydro sativa is not as problematic as indica.

some indica forms are not smoked as flowers,only as hash,this is relevant too!bush indica is still indica!sometimes bred as medicine,being smoked as recreation!

t s t .

[faustus]

the journal article can be downloaded here: morrison_et_al__2009_.pdf

when i have a free moment i'll have a read of it.

morrison_et_al__2009_.pdf

morrison_et_al__2009_.pdf

[Foton]

"These findings confirm that THC can induce a transient acute psychological reaction

IV THC makes people trip out... whoopdey doo.

Ive seen similar propaganda on TV also.

[apothecary]

Results. THC-induced positive psychotic symptoms, and participant- and investigator-rated measurements of these

were highly correlated. Participants showed an increase in anxiety ratings but there was no relationship between

either self- or investigator-rated positive psychotic symptoms and anxiety. THC also impaired neuropsychological

performance but once again there was no relationship between THC-induced positive psychotic symptoms and

deficits in working memory/executive function.

Conclusions. These findings confirm that THC can induce a transient, acute psychotic reaction in psychiatrically

well individuals. The extent of the psychotic reaction was not related to the degree of anxiety or cognitive impair-

ment.

From above paper...

The conclusion says, THC can cause "transient psychosis" in normal people but it's not related to anxiety or "how stoned you are"? Confusing for me...please explain?

Edited July 28, 2009 by apothecary

[Legba]

please explain?

Psychiatrists are doctors who practice psychology...a subject of which they know very little.

[mutant]

I think you are somewhat missing the point / or just taking the study way too seriously, feel free to show me I am wrong.

It's a given than cannabis might potentiate, activate, catalyze underlying mental situations. Cannabis can worsen mental issues like anxiety, depression, psychosis, and can even ignite psychosis that has never occured before in an individual, especially in the individuals first binges / abuses of the plant.

If a user/abuser has not shown any warning sings, anxiety attacks, serious and lasting paranoia, medical problems after serious overuse, then he can propably continue using the plant for the rest of his life no needing to worry much about possible mental implications. That's why some people like mu's friends and Swim, my pothead friend only get 'stoned', however often they do it, while some others are forced to quit the use due to getting alarming side-effects... Now, the problem is with those who don't quit, or do get the symptoms but still go on and smoke like 13-year-old-kids - and boy: how the fuck could an individual with psychotic tendencies realise warning signs?

Cannabis is not known to create mental problems, but to being capable of bringing them out to the surface, worsen symptoms or cause a temporary crisis.

So it's not a matter of 'sativa is harmless' and 'indica is dangerous'. They can both act as catalysts in the vein described above, but indica and hybrids [skunk], due to different concentration and/or different chemical make-up, is a lot more psychedelic in nature, and is more likely to cause paranoid thouhts and such, so it's pretty understandable and propably true that skunk is more capable of inducing psychosis related episodes... Be sure that set and setting and style of use also must play a big role...

That being said, taking a sample of people with history of psychotic problems and checking the link with cannabis use doesn't say a thing. A psychotic and people with mental instabilities always tend to use psychoactive substances. In general, I believe tha scientific formulas and approaches can barely say anything useful or new regarding drug use and drug use dangers.

====================

Have you noticed that heavy psychedelic users seldom use cannabis? And propably, vice-versa.... This last one point is just mentioned to give you a hint that everything is linked. You cannot investigate your relationship with a substance like cannabis not taking other psychoactives you use into account.

PS/edit:

in IV THC or some serious quantity of cannabis eaten, sure you can have TEMPORARY 'psychosis-like situation' even in healthy individuals. Like tripping. Like psychedelics 'psychotomemic' effects ;)

Edited July 28, 2009 by mutant

[botanika]

In saying that legalisation would allow for monitoring of THC & CBD to be monitored and rated but then again i wouldn't expect anything from this country's leaders or any other for that matter which make drugs safer for the people who use them

Legalization would allow one to buy organically grown strains by a master grower rather than quickly grown commercial junk from a street urchin. Western countries stimulate pychosis all on their own through their laws and scare mongering.

Edited July 28, 2009 by botanika

[alexdef]

i dunno what smoke you guys get, but pretty much all my friends who smoke 'skunk' or hydro or watever you wanna call it, they just get STONED! these are ppl who've grown up with hydro. the only ppl who i hear complain about the stuff are old ppl around their 30s, or non-heavy dope smokers

Damn! you're right! i'm 29, and i swore off weed 5 years ago after seeing 4 out of 10 of my good mates end up with drug induced psychosis from smoking too much ... and i'm talking, full blown ongoing psychosis that needed serious treatment. not just 'why's everyone looking at me??' type thoughts.

weed these days has gone to a completely new level. if jimi hendrix smoked a cone of todays buds, he wouldn't know what hit him!

[faustus]

The conclusion says, THC can cause "transient psychosis" in normal people but it's not related to anxiety or "how stoned you are"? Confusing for me...please explain?

cannabis can cause both anxiety and cognitive impairment, in addition to symptoms of psychosis.

without re-reading the paper, i'd say that it means that there was no significant correlation between anxiety and cognitive impairments and scores on the PANNS and CAPE, which were the measure of psychosis.

this would suggest that anxiety or cognitive impairment isn't acting as a potential confound. another thing you could do is an ANCOVA -- "controlling for scores of anxiety and cognitive impairments, does the THC group have a significantly higher score on the PANSS in comparison to the placebo group".

i know you're all going to hate me, but i'm going to stick my neck out: on the surface of things, i think the study is sound or reasonable in terms of what they were doing, but i think the newspaper article was highly sensational.

if you really want to critique the study, have a look at the measures of psychosis that they used, the PANSS and CAPE. a score of 11 on the PANSS -- it may be statistically significantly higher than baseline, but is it meaningful? have a look at the scores of a floridly psychotic individual, do they score 11, or something substantially higher. a score of 2 on the CAPE -- again, is this something that a "schizotypal" person would get, or something that someone experiencing actual psychosis would show.

something like that would take a few hours and i'm pretty busy, but instead of getting emotional and excited, that's what you'd do if you wanted to critique the study. there's a few other things you could do, but that's one of them.

i've got a job interview on friday and i intend to read up on the PANSS if i have the time, as it's a common measure in psychiatry. if i manage to find it, i'll post it here. i think i've got the CAPE somewhere.

Edited July 28, 2009 by faustus

[eexpee]

All of that being said, it is also proven though that CBD prevents many of the paranoia/anxiety feelings that pure THC can cause. I think the problem simply with skunk these days is exactly that, they are bred for their high THC content and would naturally be lower in CBD. CBD is also responsible for a lot of the pain and inflammatory responses cannabis has. A friend has terrible back pain, when he smokes skunk he gets tension that makes it worse, when he smokes some good indica bush it disappears. It's probably all relative to the amount of CBD present. Some people won't sketch out on pure THC, some will. It might sound too simple, but I think it is that simple. But that's just what I think.

[botanika]

That being said, taking a sample of people with history of psychotic problems and checking the link with cannabis use doesn't say a thing. A psychotic and people with mental instabilities always tend to use psychoactive substances.

self medication?

[Neoshaman]

All of that being said, it is also proven though that CBD prevents many of the paranoia/anxiety feelings that pure THC can cause. I think the problem simply with skunk these days is exactly that, they are bred for their high THC content and would naturally be lower in CBD. CBD is also responsible for a lot of the pain and inflammatory responses cannabis has. A friend has terrible back pain, when he smokes skunk he gets tension that makes it worse, when he smokes some good indica bush it disappears. It's probably all relative to the amount of CBD present. Some people won't sketch out on pure THC, some will. It might sound too simple, but I think it is that simple. But that's just what I think.

BRING BACK HAZE ITS A SUPER STRONG SATIVA THAT HAS VERY FEW OF THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE STRONGER INDICA STRAINS EVEN THOUGH ITS THC LEVELS ARE QUITE SIMILAR MMMMMM clear headed happy high but I guess we can't expect this while ever the vast majority are grown by fuck heads who care more about increased yield and physical cravings in users then putting out a safer product plus half the fuckheads don't even dry or cure it properly these days I imagine this makes it far worse for the lungs of smokers also

[bℓσωηG]

Just thought id plop this in as it is relevent and new on youtube, enjoy but yeah i would rather avoid those genetically modified budz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C6dNlOeg_E

[FancyPants]

In othew news, a study shown that when sober patients are injected with ethyl alcohol they experience high levels of sedation, false-confidence, loss of coordination - a "drunk" feeling if you will. Upon the ethyl alcohol levels returning to zero the patient is left with a massive headache, extreme dehydration, urge to kick people slamming doors.

*14/20 subjects died during or after the experiment.

[Neoshaman]

In othew news, a study shown that when sober patients are injected with ethyl alcohol they experience high levels of sedation, false-confidence, loss of coordination - a "drunk" feeling if you will. Upon the ethyl alcohol levels returning to zero the patient is left with a massive headache, extreme dehydration, urge to kick people slamming doors.

*14/20 subjects died during or after the experiment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

LMAO