El Barto Posted July 4, 2009 i dont think i truley believe anyhthing i think the likleyhood of somthings being fact can be high or low but i wouldnt say i believe it it may just be the way im defining/using the word believe believe = think you know when you know you dont really know ? thats the way my brain has it but that cant be how people who hold beliefes see it whats anjother way of defining believe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alchemica Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) I see belief as being the feeling that something that you can't physically or experimentally prove might actually exist or happen. Opening your mind and soul to the influences of the entire universe/"other" and the hope that we are not merely masses of well structured chemical producing organs, alone and fighting our own personal struggles. It's a hard concept for me to grasp, too. I like to see evidence. It seems that taking a look at yourself as an outsider, putting everything/the universe/"other" into context and wondering "what if" and "why can't it be true", even if you are totally deluding all of your normal intuitions and principles, can be quite an experience. I doubt it's healthy to not believe anything at all... I tried that for most of my life and I always felt empty. It's always up to you to come up with whatever you want to believe. Then again, maybe just believing in your life dreams, setting goals and finding where you want your life to go is enough.... Or believing that things will get better than they are at the present. Convincing yourself that you truly 100% believe something will happen/exist is another thing all together. Edited July 4, 2009 by Alchemica Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 4, 2009 El Barto,.......... I think people also call it Belief, because their idea of the world is constantly being challenged. The word belief is frequently just used just for the ease of converstation, so not to get lost into details. Especially when you think the other person or people involved could be on the same page as you. If not then we explain why we say we believe something to be true. So I believe you should just read between the lines when a person uses the word belief. Could give you an intersting perspective on how people think. btw.........I think everyone has beliefs about the world. (how people interpid the world) Question your beliefs!!!! a good topic El Barto! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted July 4, 2009 fuzzy belief is prob what i have.....things i most likely believe...... t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 8, 2009 Great topic as well, what the matter with you guys? Or is it that I didn't really read the spiritual/philosophy forum before? Reality is what doesn't stop existing when you stop believing in it Me too I am not a believer-type, in the way I don't trust stuff that have to be believed to be true. So, when I use the word believe, actually it has nothing to do with belief as a cognitive method, I use it to announce a conclusion of mine, that is I will say 'I believe this' when I have concluded that this is my firm opinion on a subject I have thought a lot about ... Alchemica's post is a gem. I have concluded also that people, most people anyways need to believe in something, usually not real, because their life is kind of empty without some 'higher' sense of meaning. Very close to these concepts, especially in this context, is hope or expectation. 'Believing' in something real is not really belief, as it requires no faith, but comon sense. So belief, is beyond anything else, a helping mechanism to cope, especially for times of grief, pain, sadness. In a way, belief is a tool, only a tool used subconsciously. With one remark though: the believer can be a tool, too. Believing in yourself, now, that's another cake, that's self-confidence. I would honestly guess that people could believe in stuff beautiful and existant like nature, flowers, water, sun, their partner, their parents, the ones they love, THEMSELVES ~ first of all, their talents etc etc etc, and that everything would be relatively OK for anyone without having to believe in stupid stuff. BUT, reality is not like this. Hence, even though I am not the believer-type, I do believe that people need to believe in something [one of the classic arguements against atheism: "but you have to believe in something!" ] Now the stuff people believe only show me there's not enough good stuff around those people to believe in. So they invent them. Coping mechanism, that's what it is. Philosophically it's plain wrong... But it works, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) you can be such a drag mutant. i love ya though. i guess if i'm gonna post i should contribute. i don't have solid beliefs but for my own purposes i am 99% convinced of some things. if somebody says that something does not exist, i think they need to examine themselves, and find the hidden potential in themselves. then they will realise the power of reality. like their own self, it is an infinite creative well. god is everywhere to be found, again and again, in a game that can take any form and defy any belief. Edited July 8, 2009 by ThunderIdeal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 8, 2009 Reality is what doesn't stop existing when you stop believing in it - THAT CAN ONLY MEAN THAT YOUR BELIEF WAS AN ILLUSION FOR ME THE WORD BELIEF NEEDS TO BE INTERPEPED ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS. BELIEF IS JUST A WORD TO EXPRESS OR TALK ABOUT A CONCEPT. BTW,.... WHAT'S REAL......... LIFE IS A MYSTERY! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) lol, I am being the regular smartass / arrogant lol, fuck I am good at this... I have to make a note. For my language believe and have faith in are represented by the same word. So, what I was argueing about was manily the 'reality' that comes out of faith not facts, so yeah, the illusion, but even illusions seem to help people cope, no? on a side note, do you remember that southpark episode [1.1 ?] with the alien anal probe on Cartman. In a scene Chef's t-shirt says BELIEVE and depicts an alien sterotype Edited July 9, 2009 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swarb Posted July 13, 2009 “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” Robert Anton Wilson ...not sure i believe that tho ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drugo Posted July 14, 2009 I like to think of belief as having a double movement, on the one hand its a tool (as someone spoke of earlier) and on the other hand its a constraint. Seeing the former has been discussed i'll elaborate on constraint. By saying 'i believe in this' then it means i don't believe in that, that or that. William James once uttered 'who calls the absolute anything in particular, or says that it is [this], seems implicitly to shut it off from being that'. Humanity seems to offer multiple truths, and therefore multiple beliefs. You just have to decide with your heart and mind which ones swing with you. A practical view from this idea, which i think is crucial for maintaining anything like a 'happy', fulfilling, passionate, and meaningful existence, is the idea that although I may think my beliefs are not absolute, or in other words, not the only truths, I think that it is crucial to hold my beliefs with the highest value. By doing this you will arguably not fall into the disenchanted, apathetic, meaningless, 'what's the point if there is no real truth', attitude plaguing the post-modern world. As Lyotard says we have 'incredulity towards metanarratives', but this disbelief doesn't have to bring apathy and dullness, rather it can bring growth, expansion, curiosity, passion and hope. A truth seems to exist as a structure which supports itself, kinda' like an elaborate cubby house, and when you start removing some parts of a cubby house and attach them to different one, a lot of the time it will look out of place, and false. This mixing of truth results in what Lyotard calls an injustice. Its best to appreciate each truth in the context or 'structure' with it lives. Mind you, sometimes you can fuse different cubby houses together and build strong houses, cities, universes and beyond. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 14, 2009 By doing this you will arguably not fall into the disenchanted, apathetic, meaningless, 'what's the point if there is no real truth', attitude plaguing the post-modern world. I wish this was true, I wish people saw and realised the meaningless attempts to grasp the universal truth, objective - they would then try more to make their own lives better. Because having no ultimate goal as species or as worldview, only leaves you more space and time to make you own life worth it. That's one of the main positive shit of being a radical atheist.... you got to take care of your own spiritual and worldview shit... Don't get me wrong, I do have a conception of the real truth, I am just convinced [that is I believe] that very few can afford to understand it, accept it, benefit from it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
