have you been thinking about telepathy etc recently?

[Chiral]

are these people you are communicating with actually communicating with you? if you went up and talked to them in 'real' life, would they remember the same details as you?

Great question...can you believe how hard it would be to locate these strangers but I would love too.... to confirm what has happened...also consider the different languages around the world...when practicing telepathy is there some sort of universal language translator....because I'm thinking in English but was in communication with people of other nationalities...mainly Asian...the Malaysian girl who I was communication with was seemingly a little frightened and shocked when she looked at me and I asked her about something...she kinda gave me a look of please why are you here and leave now please....if next when I experiment and I recognise someone I guess I could contact them and confirm if they had noticed anything unusual as far as thinking of me or being in some sort of contact.

There was one telepathic incident last week involving Sina/Apothecary but he was not there is was more like I was standing in front of a small shrine of flowers and cards and candles with others from around here who where saying they missed him...if he reads this perhaps he can shed some light what that might mean if anything to him.

H.

[Teotzlcoatl]

I was just going to start a thread like this until I noticed this one... weird.

[t st tantra]

theres 2 like this!

t s t .

[KanJe]

Mutant - You are the kind of guy that I could argue with for hours. I'm more of a romantic who get all over-emotional with everyone's relative views.

I'm with Hunab on this one. I can't see what makes ones person more valid than another based on the chemical profile of their mind.

Lets say hypothetically I walk into Melbourne CBD after having 2mg of Xanax, who's going to be more stable? The stressed out puppets caught up in a world of logic, or the tripper trying to work out whether he should walk or keep on staring at the sky.

I'm just trying to illustrate both ends of the scale.

To follow on with the question of how we might change the world. Honestly I think the best thing to project to people is unconditional love. I kind of think it would be contagious and be the first step to a perception where the walls of individuality can be taken down. Does that make sense?

Edited June 2, 2009 by KanJe

[immanuel]

Great question...can you believe how hard it would be to locate these strangers but I would love too.... to confirm what has happened...also consider the different languages around the world...when practicing telepathy is there some sort of universal language translator....because I'm thinking in English but was in communication with people of other nationalities...mainly Asian...the Malaysian girl who I was communication with was seemingly a little frightened and shocked when she looked at me and I asked her about something...she kinda gave me a look of please why are you here and leave now please....if next when I experiment and I recognise someone I guess I could contact them and confirm if they had noticed anything unusual as far as thinking of me or being in some sort of contact.

There was one telepathic incident last week involving Sina/Apothecary but he was not there is was more like I was standing in front of a small shrine of flowers and cards and candles with others from around here who where saying they missed him...if he reads this perhaps he can shed some light what that might mean if anything to him.

H.

i wonder if you could direct any control over the environments/people in which you experience this 'telepathy'

[PD.]

I fail to see how these "visions" can be regarded as telepathy as such. Hunab, while i dont doubt that you had the visions you mention, i very much doubt them as being a form of telepathy. Why do you regard it as telepathy and not just a hallucination caused by tryptamines. If you are standing infront of someone in your vision and talking to them then it isnt telepathy, you are just talking to them in a vision! Telepathy by definition is communicating without apparent physical signals, IE, sitting with someone in a physical world, the real world and communicating through thought, not imagining someone in a far off land and talking to them or even imagining someone you know for that matter. Just because you are hallucinating and not really in a "physical" space with the person you are communicating/talking with doesnt make it telepathy at all, it makes it a vision, hallucination, trip, what ever you may call it.

[Chiral]

i wonder if you could direct any control over the environments/people in which you experience this 'telepathy'

look this has only started happening lately so it's all really very very new and I am only basically walking in the door with this...one thing I will say that when I'm deep and making contact my body is like having a seizure...I contort and twist and move my arms and legs around a lot...it's quite strange and probably looks quite scary if you where to be watching....what happens is ...it's like tuning in a TV the old way...the picture is blurry and then it becomes clear..whilst it's blurry I'm twisting and moving my body like really mad and then once the imagery clears and I am in contact or am face to face with who ever I become extremely tense and hold a position...this is all why it's so exhausting and probably has a lot to do with why I can barely walk the next day and the night at the end of the trip...these are things I am remembering and am piecing it all together.

In time I may be able to control the environment...lets hope so...the only problem is having to dose at relatively high levels frequently to accumulate more and more information....keeping my self healthy and fit is a priority if I am to keep up these experiments.

H.

[KanJe]

look this has only started happening lately so it's all really very very new and I am only basically walking in the door with this...one thing I will say that when I'm deep and making contact my body is like having a seizure...I contort and twist and move my arms and legs around a lot...it's quite strange and probably looks quite scary if you where to be watching....what happens is ...it's like tuning in a TV the old way...the picture is blurry and then it becomes clear..whilst it's blurry I'm twisting and moving my body like really mad and then once the imagery clears and I am in contact or am face to face with who ever I become extremely tense and hold a position...this is all why it's so exhausting and probably has a lot to do with why I can barely walk the next day and the night at the end of the trip...these are things I am remembering and am piecing it all together.

In time I may be able to control the environment...lets hope so...the only problem is having to dose at relatively high levels frequently to accumulate more and more information....keeping my self healthy and fit is a priority if I am to keep up these experiments.

H.

Now that you have seen this place in your mind, why not try and reach it again through meditation.

PD - In regards to the vision that Hunab had where he was looking at the asian girl and she told him to stop. If she actually existed and that happened in real time, wouldn't that be telepathy?

[PD.]

If she actually existed and that happened in real time, wouldn't that be telepathy?

If she actually existed outside hunabs mind and both parties were communicating through thought alone in REAL time and able to verify this then yes, that could be seen as telepathy. The fact that it all happened in hunabs mind during a tryptamine hallucination doesnt make it telepathy, it makes it exactly what it is, a hallucination.

[MindExpansion]

Hallucinogen - something which generates hallucinations.

So you take a hallucinogen, you hallucinate.

With that out of the way.

the only problem is having to dose at relatively high levels frequently to accumulate more and more information

What information, and what do you feel you need to do with this information?

Some would argue G, that you are exhibiting some symptoms of schizophrenia. Others might say you are taking these hallucinations too seriously without recognising the possibility that they may be just that, hallucinations.

Also, I don't know who wouldn't feel knackered for a few days after a heavy trip experience, telepathy or not.

On top of that, keep in mind that while you may feel recovered from the trip after 2 or 3 days but your neurochemistry will be altered for much longer than that, so regular dosing may never allow your neurochemistry to return to bassline even if physically you feel that you have, just something to keep in mind for looking after your mental health.

Peace

[Chiral]

Okay so there is tripping and laughter and freaking out and fractals and mandalas and swirling colours and all that usual trippy stuff...then there is what I have been experiencing lately....I just gotta say this is completely different...remember I'm saying now that there are no colours or any of that usual visual stuff.... although on that very large dose where I first freaked out and wrote that post...there was some visuals with a vine and a triangular door..since then cube trips have been very DMT like which is common and to be expected...then switched back to subs and it's no colours no tryptamine feel just a snap crackle and weird transformation of thought and seeing actual human beings in normal conditions...and for the first time I am seeing their faces very clearly and reading body language and communicating....I have never experienced this in any other form of hallucinogen...and I've tried a lot of em. Perhaps it's just the way the subs interact with me ...I don't know.... I am saying though it feels like what telepathy would be like...or to put it differently...to be out of my body and in someone else's talking to someone else...perhaps it's not me they are communicating with...perhaps my mind travels and connects onto someone else's and I see and hear their thoughts through them....I don't know...but no fractals, no swirls, no mandalas....none of that stuff happens with these semi large dose sub experiences...I just want someone else to have a similar experience so that it can be cross referenced, and then maybe that will give my claims a small amount of merit...at the moment I'm probably sounding like a freak or something.

H.

[MindExpansion]

No not like a freak, but remember I told you that your neurochemistry is probably not getting back to normal between doses, take a month off tryptamines, then hit it again, see if you have the same experience, that would rule out the possibility that the different qualitative effects are a result of the altered state of neurochemistry with regular dosing, which to me does seem like a possibility. Also it is possibly now what you are expecting to get from a trip, so it is what you are getting. Just some other possible explanations for the qualitative difference in effects.

[KanJe]

Hunab - For me the most important step in the process for an experience like this is the reflection period. To me it's absolutely crucial.

My recommendation is to relax, reflect, meditate and come to terms with what has happened. Maybe more understanding will come from approaching it this way.

Edit: MindExpantion pretty much covered what I meant, I'm just a slow typer.

Edited June 2, 2009 by KanJe

[Chiral]

Yeah look I'm down for that...i regularly take breaks ...sometimes for months and months on end...there was even a period in my life where I was out of the loop for a year or so....I'm happy to take time and reflect...strange thing is I seem to hit bottom hard then recover quiet quickly and still say no wait another week but I get so eager and feel so great that I say to myself ..dman I feel good what am I waiting for...impatient I guess...I might get run over by a truck and never get to that trip that just explodes my mind and it all happens...well you never know ...we don't know anything about the future ...all we know is that its coming but we never know what it contains.

Will take a 2 week break and reflect and write some more in my journal, and you won't hear anything from me on this till next time...2 weeks is a long enough break for someone like me surely.

H.

[Chiral]

One thing I would like to add is that what sometimes becomes annoying on this board is that...this is an Ethnobotanical site that encourages the talking and developing relationships with other members and trading ideas and experiences through the use of medicinal and psychoactive substances that these wonderful plants contain....what annoys me sometimes is the way some people say to stop using and don't take these substances anymore...I see it more and more and in some case's it's probably a good idea but when people start to say its just a hallucination man it's nothing but that....then why are we here talking about them if they mean and are nothing but a wacky high....kinda makes this site pointless when people wanna just say yeah well the stuff from this plant just makes you high in this way and that's all there is too it and nothing more...I like to think there is something more...a damn lot more.... and the continued use experimentation and encouragement of these wonderful molecules is what I expect...not the opposite. There are some very open minded people here and there are quite a few that are continually cynical about anything out of the ordinary...I guess that's to be expected but I don't understand why so many consider themselves Shamans yet talk down the actives and encourage people not to take them seriously...why don't we tall all the Shaman in all the other third world countries that there experiences are nothing but getting high...is that what we should do or shall we open up some, and start to experiment now... more with what we know and are finding out with modern techniques.

rant over.

H.

[Alchemica]

Hallucinogen - something which generates hallucinations.

So you take a hallucinogen, you hallucinate.

With that out of the way.

Do you really think that everything that may come to the surface through the use of a psychedelic is a pointless hallucination? Don't people strive to alter their consciousness to improve on something... to look for better answers to life? I understand that many people see it as an escape, a holiday if you like. I have no problem with that, but it seems rather pointless to always treat the psychedelic/hallucinogenic experience as a "psychotomimetic state", one where everything you experience should be dismissed.

Don't you have experiences where aspects of your life come to the surface through the use of "hallucinogens", ones that could do with improvement? Why am I killing my lungs with smokes? Why do I seek to alter my consciousness so frequently? What do I not like about my life?

...Or is everyone here perfect enough that they don't have issues that they seek to resolve?

Others might say you are taking these hallucinations too seriously without recognising the possibility that they may be just that, hallucinations.

I won't argue that most hallucinations are purely a product of the imagination (and not something that need to be acted on), but surely some of it is the un/subconscious mind revealing aspects of one's life that they normally wouldn't see, at least for consideration? For me, psychedelics often bring out a deeply introspective state and if I was to dismiss everything that I had contemplated under the influence, it would be a waste of time and substance

Edited June 2, 2009 by The Alchemist

[Chiral]

^^^ Agree 100%...thank you....all this negativity about hallucinogens has been grating on me lately....I mean whats the point exactly.

H.

[immanuel]

,

Edited April 19, 2010 by mardybum

[KanJe]

Everyone needs to remember that objective truth is just as valid as subjective truth.

Hunab, I was just trying to remind of you how reflection can help learn more from your experiences. I don't want you to think by any means that I think your experiences are untrue.

On a personal note, your experiences are true to me because to an extent I have gone through some of them myself. Don't let anyone tell you that evidence is needed to validate your experiences.

Edited June 2, 2009 by KanJe

[immanuel]

i didnt necessarily mean he needs evidence to validate his experiences, i just meant you have to be really careful. i mean would you tell a schizophrenic they dont need evidence to validate their experiences?

[KanJe]

Mardybum, I'm not aiming this at anyone. Sorry if it seemed I was trying to put you down. I just wanted to level it out.

[PD.]

I have never mentioned that what hunab is experiencing is pointless tripping, i myself have used certain "messages" i have felt/recieved to work through certain aspects of my life, more what i was getting at is that no hunab, you arent telepathic due to some visions you have only just begun to experience and yes you should chill the fuck out and take time to reflect especially when you have asked me in conversations what you should do with the information you had. That is, who should you tell or how should you act about the knowledge of a major crime syndicate importing large amounts of meth and coke. You "know" the place where it all happens etc etc like it is all real. I dont believe you should take these visions at face value and act on them in waking reality, moreso you should try and gain further insight into YOURSELF and what these messages mean to YOU, not some fantasy drug cartell you "chanelled" into by using a hallucinogen. Yes there is messages but the way i have come to understand these things is that generally the messages are there for you to ponder/reflect on in the waking life and are about YOU. When you can understand what is happening and why when in a sober state you may get a greater insight into yourself, trying to understand what you dont already by going into the altered state again and again is pointless imo and will only lead you to further questions whilst not learning anything about yourself. Im in no way saying dont do it, just remeber that the sober time is AS important and special as this wonderful subbly alternate world you have recently discovered

[Chiral]

I have never mentioned that what hunab is experiencing is pointless tripping, i myself have used certain "messages" i have felt/recieved to work through certain aspects of my life, more what i was getting at is that no hunab, you arent telepathic due to some visions you have only just begun to experience and yes you should chill the fuck out and take time to reflect especially when you have asked me in conversations what you should do with the information you had. That is, who should you tell or how should you act about the knowledge of a major crime syndicate importing large amounts of meth and coke. You "know" the place where it all happens etc etc like it is all real. I dont believe you should take these visions at face value and act on them in waking reality, moreso you should try and gain further insight into YOURSELF and what these messages mean to YOU, not some fantasy drug cartell you "chanelled" into by using a hallucinogen. Yes there is messages but the way i have come to understand these things is that generally the messages are there for you to ponder/reflect on in the waking life and are about YOU. When you can understand what is happening and why when in a sober state you may get a greater insight into yourself, trying to understand what you dont already by going into the altered state again and again is pointless imo and will only lead you to further questions whilst not learning anything about yourself. Im in no way saying dont do it, just remeber that the sober time is AS important and special as this wonderful subbly alternate world you have recently discovered

Yeah I'm a fan of sobriety a lot....people think I don't take time off but I do take plenty of time actually...I seemed to have conjured up images of being an over user ....perhaps I have through all my babbling of late but anyways I do take breaks...in fact they are usually forced breaks as I have so much to do around here with looking after my daughter ...we all know how much hard work that can be...seriously a 2 year old is lotta work...they are relentless with energy and seem to wanna eat every half an hour... so I never put my family and daughter before my psychedelic studies...in fact I always ask my wife what are her plans for the day I wish to use for my adventures and if she says she has plans and she wants to do this or that then I simply say cool no probs...if she says she's got nothing on then I have but only one evening per week where I have an opportunity to play. Thinking about what has happened during my days of sobriety is pretty much all I do...I do reflect and I read a lot and take a lot of naps and rest when my daughter does so I sync up with her ....so as you can see it's not all bongs and drugs and meth heads around here ya know...I'm just one person who has had this hobby for 30 years and enjoys finding out any new and exciting territory in psychedelics...to tell the truth for a while there I had almost given up on them as I found I couldn't get deep enough and took a year off and did nothing....I made music and joined a yoga class and took up jogging etc...it wasn't until I picked up my dusty old copy of plants of the gods again that I felt that probably I should look into the plant side of things more...I had been messing around with synths way to much overseas....that's why I lost interest...there is an emptiness in them after you do them for so long....plant psychedelics have so much more to offer and seem to be the real deal as far as opening up subconscious doors that have wanted to be opened...I guess that's how I ended up here ...took a break and realised that plants are the real deal and now I have that whole field to explore it's like I have been reborn and finally found what what my mind has been searching for. I agree that you can over use and abuse these substances but I'm not really one for that to tell the truth...I don't smoke weed or drink ...I have an issue with opiates and have found some very interesting new world inside the sub...that's it really ...but you know I like to talk about these things and share what has happened...there is that caring element amongst us here and we try to look after each other and that's nice ...but it's all good here....I come from a long line of hard heads... my grandmother worked in the same pub in England from the age of 16 till in her 70's....she drank a bottle of whiskey a day and smoked 2 packets of capstans every day...she lived till she was 89...god bless her...tough as old boots.

H.

[kindness]

I'm going to be a retard and just drop in without reading the whole thread here... looks interesting and I want to read it all will do soon....

story.

years ago friend and me ingested datura stramonium seeds... tea thereof. We didn't talk for hours but communicated via our minds - in a normal kinda dialouge, i.e. we talked to eachother but without words, we had a friend, (a nurse so to speak) with us who was straight who later told us that occasionally we would vocalise stuff. The things we said didn't really make logical sense to our friend but upon retrospection were snippets of the conversation we were continuing with in our 'minds'.

Ignore this post if it isn't in flow with the rest... just felt compelled to write.

mz

[reptyle]

The vocalisation centres in the mind are connected to but not directly able to transfer or emit the entire scope of the actual thought processes of the mind...this means that asking or confronting a person about the non-verbal "conversation" often ends in a negative confirmation.

When humans began to develop a mind which was capable of interpreting empathy...and further developed compassion, there arose simultaneously the capacity for interbody communication...the area's of the "frontal lobes" (haha) that allows humans to percieve separations of self, and divide the personality of God into multiple aspects...each connected in "neural constellations" (haha) capabale of transfering information though "electrical and chemical" signals to each other which can be represented by waveforms.

I say haha because the nature of the human is a multifocal metaphor network which manifest physical, mental and spiritual planes...all information is one undefinable substrate...read the story and you get the idea's underlying the methodology of Gods existing percievablitiy.

If you pretend you dont know then you will constantly confirm it for yourself. You are God living an aspect of error checking and permeating possibilities undivided IT knows everthing, even knowing its not knowing...its perfect.