How to kick the habit

[hutch]

A friend has confided in me her addiction to the that has been going on since she was 18. She is now 49. She has kicked it a few time's but has always been easily drawn back into it. A need for something she often describes it as. Does anyone have some thoughts on different plants that may help her to overcome this addiction? She can give it away sometime's quite easily (after the initial panic has been overcome). but she claims she needs something to get her through the day but the side affects she is getting from being stoned all day on mainly strong hydro is starting to affect her life.

Any suggestions??? This forum is just packed with much wiser people than me

[MindExpansion]

Only one way to do it IMO, STOP IT.

All very good and well to think about doing it, plan to do it, etc etc....I know so many people that think they can stop 'whenever i want to man'...some of them prove the point to themselves by stopping for a week, then go back to their daily habbit, thinking that because they held off for a week, or 3 or 4 days even, means they have total control over their addction.

What I would advise her to do is to actually write down, not just think about, but write down the bad things it brings into her life. Examples being damage to mental health, paranoia, lung health, damage to social abilities etc etc.

Then write down why she does it, and really examine those things, so if she thinks she does it because its relaxing, she might be surprised to then consider how every time she does it she might get so paranoid shes in tension mode the whole time shes high...meaning it doesnt really relax her at all, or the old 'weed makes it better' sort of thing, like, if shes going to watch a movie she should get high cause it will be better, try doing anything she thinks is better on weed sober and see what the difference actually is.

Sleeping for the first week or so might be hard, perhaps some mild sleeping aids might be of use but I think its better to avoid anything because it may mean you swap one addiction for another in the end.

But the most important thing is to write down and remember all the reasons she isnt wanting to do it anymore, then every time she craves because she thinks it would be great to get high again, she should read over the list, and remember exactly why she made the choice to kick it in the first place.

Also, I'm a strong believer in the idea that if you've been hooked on the weed, you shouldnt attempt 'recreational' use (i.e more occasional use) for a long time, if ever, so don't try to quit for a certain amount of time, I know someone who quit who said that they day they didnt feel like they wanted a smoke, might be the day would try it again, because the cravings are an everyday thing...and will power combined with a solid knowledge of why you stopped (and having it in writing really does matter because it externalises it, makes the reasons real, not just in your head anymore).

Peace and good luck to your friend.

[kenny]

To my knowledge Weed does not have any addictive qualities. In so far as chemicals. So its entirely psychological.

I have tried to quit smoking cigarettes many times. Despite the various aides such as patches and gum, its always the psychological aspect that holds me back. Ultimately, I know within myself that even with all the benefits of stopping smoking, I just don't want to. Even though it effects both my pocket and my lungs, I enjoy it, until I stop enjoying it or have a heart attack. Odds are I will continue.

So from my point of view. For what ever reason, if she is going to quit, she has to want it. If she fails to quit... odds are she simply doesn't want to.

[~shameless~]

As far as my experience with 'the erb' goes, i find nothing can really help, no plants or catus or fungus i know about can help with this habbit - sometimes a really really good dose of subs can seem to make you take a look at your self in a positive way reagarding smoking weed and kik'n the habbit ( smoking weed all the time seems wrong when i'm in a psylo therapy session) but as soon as it wears off my hunger begins again for weed, i'v heard / read on erowid that LSD has had positive effects with some smokers also Ayahuasca, but not with me, every thing except soberness makes me want to smoke joints or pipes, why because i used to love and still love getting blazed.

I used to be cronic - hard core, but have smoked about a gram over the last month and dont plan on doing anything/ nothing more until i get this job i'm going for, (medical coming up real soon),

thats what you need in order to give up weed, (if you love to smoke) a real reason outside the mind, not an ethno, as no ethno product will cure this habbit, its like trying to give up smack with methadone - when you love smack.

Weed is a seriously under rated powerful herb, its addidctiveness is seriously underated, aswell as its withdrawl symptom's

when i started to stop smoking and started my first few sobernight's it felt like i was staring at the gates of insanity and deppression, i'm glad i had a reason to look forward, i got some strange lonley feelings and felt really abnormal for a little bit there. i sigh now knowing that most of that terrible shit is over, looking forward to getting started in new work , but also looking forward to getting stoned again one day in the future, ( its hard to really consider myself a non stoner after all those years) i wont ever smoke more than once a week ever again!!

Too sum all my 'dribble' up in one try-hard phrase, ~ you need a reason, not another substance ~

Cheers bro

[MindExpansion]

I enjoy it, until I stop enjoying it or have a heart attack

Or is your addiction making your think you enjoy it, I once had a mate spend half a trip telling me how much weed was fucking with his life, how when he was smoking it things just seemed to be against him, and nothing went right, nothing in his family, nothing with his friends or his health, his job, he said he couldn't get bud for a week and by the end of it everything was going his way...things were just all around better, from his mental health and happiness to his performance at work...then when I asked him why he was still smoking...he said 'because i like it'...quite the eye opener to me.

Peace

[Neoshaman]

Or is your addiction making your think you enjoy it, I once had a mate spend half a trip telling me how much weed was fucking with his life, how when he was smoking it things just seemed to be against him, and nothing went right, nothing in his family, nothing with his friends or his health, his job, he said he couldn't get bud for a week and by the end of it everything was going his way...things were just all around better, from his mental health and happiness to his performance at work...then when I asked him why he was still smoking...he said 'because i like it'...quite the eye opener to me.

Peace

Smoking or drinking sceletium may help

[hutch]

I had heard or read once somewhere that Dimiana (if that's how its spelt) has been used succesfully by some heavily dependant smokers. Anyone with some experience here? Is Kappa any better???

Hutch

[Genesis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernanthe_i...ction_treatment

"Outside Africa, iboga extracts as well as the purified alkaloid ibogaine are used in treating opiate addiction. The therapy may last several days and upon completion the subject is generally no longer physically dependent. One methadone patient said in the Dutch behind-the-news show Twee Vandaag that in just four days he reached a state that normally would have taken him three months, but without the agony. Evidence suggests that ibogaine may also help to interrupt addiction to alcohol and nicotine. The pharmacological effects are rather undisputed with hundreds of peer reviewed papers in support but formal clinical studies have not been completed.

In the United States these clinics are illegal but exist nonetheless, providing treatment for a wide variety of addictions."

I would speak to Torsten, I believe he has had some experience with iboga. Last EGA he did a talk on it, unfortunatly I had to bail before hand so I missed out.

Also there is a new drug out, pharma, that messes (Maybe?) with the dopamine reward system and is being used to stop people smoking ciggies. I know a few people that have been on a course of them and they all say they have lost the eurge to smoke, drink and any other compulsive vice they had. They also became really moody cunts and stopped sleeping. I forget the name of it but I will ask a lad at work tomorrow.

Hope that helped a little,

Gen

Edited March 25, 2009 by Genesis

[Chiral]

To my knowledge Weed does not have any addictive qualities. In so far as chemicals. So its entirely psychological.

I have tried to quit smoking cigarettes many times. Despite the various aides such as patches and gum, its always the psychological aspect that holds me back. Ultimately, I know within myself that even with all the benefits of stopping smoking, I just don't want to. Even though it effects both my pocket and my lungs, I enjoy it, until I stop enjoying it or have a heart attack. Odds are I will continue.

So from my point of view. For what ever reason, if she is going to quit, she has to want it. If she fails to quit... odds are she simply doesn't want to.

Try telling that to people who have smoked bongs since they where 16 and are now in their late 40's...I've seen these people when they can't get any weed and they act like children ...all weird and silly and can't concentrate on anything, can't string 2 words together, skitty, restless and extremely frustrated. I was able to give it up cold turkey as I was never a real fan of the buzz...even though I smoked it for 20 yrs. I found giving it up to very easy...it's amazing how much extra money you have in your sky rocket after a few months of no weed. I don't have a magic cure and I don't think there is one...probably getting busted would shake a lot of people to giving up, but as far as any medicines I don't like your chances.

H.

[mutant]

You all write too much to an initial poster who barely told us some thing about the individual in question. This is stupid. Everyone share his general or personal opinons / knowledge / tips, but we don't yet know shit about the person in question. This is always the thing with such topics. I cannot grasp how people with supposed insight and experience in psychedelics use haven't yet understood that each person is a different case and until we get to know more about the indidual in question we are just playing around showing off some supposed knowledge about the herb.

She can give it away sometime's quite easily (after the initial panic has been overcome)

What panic?

but she claims she needs something to get her through the day

if she has such mentality, she's lucky to be using pot and not some other shit. There are many other shit to smoke, but it's up to the individual in question, life style, and the question 'do you really want to quit' like others said. If you want to and you have been smoking for 30 years, then prepare for a fucking change , a HUGE change in your life... Emotions will seem more intense as life will become more lively. Life seems easier to cope with through cannabis use??? Then without it might seem more difficult, but they this is life... If one has an escapist mentality, it's difficult to skip it overnight, if at all....

but the side affects she is getting from being stoned all day on mainly strong hydro is starting to affect her life.

IN WHICH WAY??

Many people fucked their mental health partially through cannabis overuse. Maybe these symptoms will kick the shit out of her and force here stop as they did with others. Strong modernday hydro cannabis is disliked by most regulart cannabis users I know. Especially for heavy use it's totally contraindicated IMO

[C_T]

Probably something to help you sleep for the first week. Perhaps talk to your GP.

And definitely take up reading or something, to get your mind off it. If you don't think about it, its alot easier. But the not sleeping part can be very frustrating.

[Chiral]

You all write too much to an initial poster who barely told us some thing about the individual in question. This is stupid. Everyone share his general or personal opinons / knowledge / tips, but we don't yet know shit about the person in question. This is always the thing with such topics. I cannot grasp how people with supposed insight and experience in psychedelics use haven't yet understood that each person is a different case and until we get to know more about the indidual in question we are just playing around showing off some supposed knowledge about the herb.

Take it easy Mutant...these threads have a habit of weaving in and out of advice and will form a life of its own. I'm sure there will be some decent advice and some self expressed experiences that people will want to tell. It will all make up a picture as the thread progress's..why so short and snappy with people who have posted so far...?

What has supposed insight and experience in psychedelics use got to do with Cannabis addiction. From my experience many heavy Cannabis addicts don't use any other forms of drugs..well rarely anyways...I'm talking about wake and bake bongers, and those that punch 20 or more cones a day. Much like painkiller and opiate addictions they feel like they can't function properly throughout the day without their drug. I beleive it is physical addiction and not purely psychological. Yes I guess we could use some more info on the person who Hutch is referring too but that will come with questions as posters offer their advice as the thread develops.

H.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Uncle. S]

it's amazing how much extra money you have in your sky rocket after a few months of no weed

i love cotney(?) rhyming slang my old boss used to use it so much

[Chiral]

i love cotney(?) rhyming slang my old boss used to use it so much

LOL..its Cockney rhyming slang...derived by the East end Londoners..know what I mean geezer..!!

apples and pears = stairs

Pigs ear = beer

bowl of fruit = suit

sky rocket = pocket

Henry the eighth = a nice 8th of hash..LMAO

H.

[faustus]

IMHO addiction is oftentimes a way to deal with some inadequacy (real or imagined) in life be it boredom, malaise, anxiety, fucked interpersonal relationships or whatever. so your friend has been using cannabis to cope with some aspect of her reality for >60% of her life.

but she claims she needs something to get her through the day

then she needs to find a more adaptive way of getting through the day. if she can't find non-drug ways to enjoy life then she'll always resort to the one trusty thing that does. what is it about "the day" that makes things so unbearable? identify this and change it. this might involve changing her profession, changing her lifestyle, removing people from her life that are bad for her, or it might involve her changing her values and worldview (which is always harder to do).

given that they hijack the dopamine pathways of the brain, drugs of addiction rob you of the ability to derive pleasure from natural sources. it'll probably take a year for her brain to get back to normal. during this time very few things will give her pleasure, which means:

1. until your brain goes back to normal it may be that nothing can replace the gaping hole that quitting has left

2. in the absence of any other source of pleasure, she'll likely revert to drug seeking behaviour.

i'm sorry for painting a grim picture, but it's reality. if you take a drug for such a long time, there's no way in hell that quitting is going to be easy.

if your friend is *serious* about quitting, then she may want to consider the following in earnest:

1. remove all drug-related cues. consider not hanging out on a drug forum.

2. stop use of all drugs of abuse. there's a tendency to "compensate" with increased use of other drugs.

3. insist that your friends don't consume drugs around you. and if they don't respect this, then you might need to re-consider your friendships. in the short-term at least, don't hang out with them.

4. see a therapist, and consider going on antidepressants.

5. develop hobbies that are intrinsically rewarding and life-affirming.

6. be patient. there's a latency between stopping use of a drug and feeling "normal" again.

[Evil Genius]

Hi Hutch! the Guys already told you some great stuff some very important points! Let me just say you this: the Enviroment is the key when you stop smoking! Get rid of your old life and everything that reminds you of it! Even friends or smoking girlfiends because they drag you down! Build a new life with positive habits & people! bye Eg

[hutch]

You all write too much to an initial poster who barely told us some thing about the individual in question. This is stupid. Everyone share his general or personal opinons / knowledge / tips, but we don't yet know shit about the person in question. This is always the thing with such topics. I cannot grasp how people with supposed insight and experience in psychedelics use haven't yet understood that each person is a different case and until we get to know more about the indidual in question we are just playing around showing off some supposed knowledge about the herb.

What panic?

if she has such mentality, she's lucky to be using pot and not some other shit. There are many other shit to smoke, but it's up to the individual in question, life style, and the question 'do you really want to quit' like others said. If you want to and you have been smoking for 30 years, then prepare for a fucking change , a HUGE change in your life... Emotions will seem more intense as life will become more lively. Life seems easier to cope with through cannabis use??? Then without it might seem more difficult, but they this is life... If one has an escapist mentality, it's difficult to skip it overnight, if at all....

IN WHICH WAY??

Many people fucked their mental health partially through cannabis overuse. Maybe these symptoms will kick the shit out of her and force here stop as they did with others. Strong modernday hydro cannabis is disliked by most regulart cannabis users I know. Especially for heavy use it's totally contraindicated IMO

Sounds more to me like you would like to put your hands around her throat and give a little squeeze Put her and her likes out of her wasted excistance. She is a neighbough of mine and from what I have been able to learn about her over a few years she has had a pretty tough life.

"I cannot grasp how people with supposed insight and experience in psychedelics" QUOTE

Not everyone in this forum is into psychedelics and from what I have been able to learn from my short time as a memeber of this group is there is an amazing pool of knowledge among its many members. The internet gives an opportunity for others to learn like never before.

"What panic?"

I asked her that very question a few weeks ago. Like most heavy uses of any addictive substance she has panic attacks when she realizes she is nearly empty. I watched a show not so long back on ICE users in the States. Now that's one shit of an addiction. The camera was on her as she smoked her last cone and thats when the panic set in. You could see how uncomftable she had just become in her own skin. Amazingly though, once she had soarced her next hit she seemed quit normal. Just knowing the stuff is on its way was enough to calm her down. I can't explain it much better than that. I personally don't suffer with panic attacks.

Thanks to others for their ideas and thoughts. Some good stuff in their and I will talk with her on some of the ideas raised.

Cheers

Hutch

[t st tantra]

one of my friends was successful abstaining after long term use......she replaced with smoked plant maoi and very low dose trytamines,said it was easy.......stopped them too after a couple months.....eventually lower level return to herb.........damiana very highly recommended too,higher dose may be needed initially.....

t s t .

[t st tantra]

forgot to mention the other cannabis thread active recently which talks about cannabis and opoid receptors.......complex stuff........

t s t .

[lickapop]

I agree with hutch.

I dont care what the experts say when they say weed is not addictive. My bro is definitely addicted.

He has been smoking it since he was 15 and and is now 34. He kicked H, ciggys no problem but tried and failed quittin weed.

We had to go up to Port keats NT for work last year. 5200km drive round trip, 2 days work we where gone 6 days.

We got a few hours out from home and usually he sparks up. But he didnt bring any/was trying to quit.

He did not sleep at all the whole time we where gone. At one point he was so on edge he had me by the throat with a stanly blade

eyes totally glazed over. By day 4 he was crying. Now usually he never shows emotion and is very passive. But he was hurting.

IMO I think the green is a fucking disgusting drug when abused. I have watched my bros mind deteriorate badly with his use.

I predict if he continues he will have severe mental disorders in the next 10/20yrs.

I recently got him some Damiana to mix into his mull and is keen to try it. Use more damiana instead of weed over time.

We will see what happens... fingers crossed

[hutch]

I agree with hutch.

I dont care what the experts say when they say weed is not addictive. My bro is definitely addicted.

He has been smoking it since he was 15 and and is now 34. He kicked H, ciggys no problem but tried and failed quittin weed.

We had to go up to Port keats NT for work last year. 5200km drive round trip, 2 days work we where gone 6 days.

We got a few hours out from home and usually he sparks up. But he didnt bring any/was trying to quit.

He did not sleep at all the whole time we where gone. At one point he was so on edge he had me by the throat with a stanly blade

eyes totally glazed over. By day 4 he was crying. Now usually he never shows emotion and is very passive. But he was hurting.

IMO I think the green is a fucking disgusting drug when abused. I have watched my bros mind deteriorate badly with his use.

I predict if he continues he will have severe mental disorders in the next 10/20yrs.

I recently got him some Damiana to mix into his mull and is keen to try it. Use more damiana instead of weed over time.

We will see what happens... fingers crossed

Be interested in how your bro goes with damiana. I have been reading some interesting reports on its benifets to those with an addiction to weed. I wouldn't mind trying that one myself so I guess the next this is to find a cutting or a few seeds.

Cheers

Hutch

[hutch]

To my knowledge Weed does not have any addictive qualities. In so far as chemicals. So its entirely psychological.

I have tried to quit smoking cigarettes many times. Despite the various aides such as patches and gum, its always the psychological aspect that holds me back. Ultimately, I know within myself that even with all the benefits of stopping smoking, I just don't want to. Even though it effects both my pocket and my lungs, I enjoy it, until I stop enjoying it or have a heart attack. Odds are I will continue.

So from my point of view. For what ever reason, if she is going to quit, she has to want it. If she fails to quit... odds are she simply doesn't want to.

I was addicted to the quitex chewing gum for a few years. I found that just as hard to kick when the mouth ulcers made chewing painful, arh but what we would put our bodies through for just a hit of nicotine. Glad I beat that one although I don't think you ever really quite tobaco.

[lickapop]

I was addicted to the quitex chewing gum for a few years. I found that just as hard to kick when the mouth ulcers made chewing painful, arh but what we would put our bodies through for just a hit of nicotine. Glad I beat that one although I don't think you ever really quite tobaco.

Nicotine is a real mind fuck. To my knowledge there is no physical symtoms to withdrawals from nicotine. You can sleep comfortably for 12hours without it without physical discomfort. But as soon as you wake you have this hunger for it.

I am only guessing but I rekon weed is the same. If you can get your mind around it your body will easily follow. Quite unlike H with the fuked up physical syptoms of withdrawal

I got my Damiana from Happy Herbs but I have seen it from other vendors

[Zen Peddler]

In my experience quitting wasnt a big deal but i havent been a heavy smoker since 2001ish - and i quit because of a health concern. Before that I smoked for maybe five years but friends who were also smoking lost the plot a bit and that freaked me out.

A close friend however - who is female - has found it a LOT harder to quit smoking. She pretty much gets consumed with two weeks of anxiety if she quits cold turkey. She has smoked damiana and a few other herbal replacements with ok results, but i think its just the smoking something vibe more than the damiana replacing the vibe of the smoke.

My best advice is GABA - two days of that stuff and the post-smoke anxiety will ease.

A good psychedelic experience can put the mind in a better place as well.

[hutch]

In my experience quitting wasnt a big deal but i havent been a heavy smoker since 2001ish - and i quit because of a health concern. Before that I smoked for maybe five years but friends who were also smoking lost the plot a bit and that freaked me out.

A close friend however - who is female - has found it a LOT harder to quit smoking. She pretty much gets consumed with two weeks of anxiety if she quits cold turkey. She has smoked damiana and a few other herbal replacements with ok results, but i think its just the smoking something vibe more than the damiana replacing the vibe of the smoke.

My best advice is GABA - two days of that stuff and the post-smoke anxiety will ease.

A good psychedelic experience can put the mind in a better place as well.

A good psychedelic experience can put the mind in a better place as well.

Funny that you say that as that is the way I am starting to lean. I read a very interesting article (one of many on a thousand different web sites I have read) on the Discovery Channel website about a reporter going over to Peru.

link

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventur...ures/peru2.html

So far from everything I have read on this subject there is a lot to be gained by such an experience and it would not be only for her but me also. Guess I am no longer talking about 12 inches of a cactis or a few seeds here and there but something a little deeper. This Ayahuasca (or at least their recipes) and the Sharmans attached to it seem to me to be a life changing experience and I am now thinking seriously of saving up for a trip there myself. Such positive experiences can't be ignored. I have a lot on my plate at the moment as I am sure heaps of others here have as well. Western medicine does not have all the answers. Anyway, thanks for your input.

Cheers

Hutch