woman jailed for being gang raped.

[ThunderIdeal]

SC: i admire the dude for the way he can describe the tryptaverse using mere english. we have never hung out. the straw that broke the camels back (camel being my religious tolerance) probably has something to do with a rape victim being jailed and lashed, and discovering that muslims are instructed 109 times by their scripture to kill, convert or humiliate me. FUCK THEM who would stand behind such teachings.

B Loco: my newfound intolerance is directed, at bare minimum, towards the scriptures of judaism, islam and christianity.

i'm not a mean person, i probably wouldn't call a person an idiot to their face because they identify as a christian, but it is how i feel at the moment. infected by a bad meme from over-exposure, as SC suggested in another thread? maybe, but it hasn't left a bad taste in my mouth YET. what does bug me is that nobody i have spoken to seems to quite get the point: if i wrote a scripture that said to stab children in the eyes with scissors, it would be condemned, and people wouldn't let their children near my followers. isn't that a fair analogy?

can we not expect people to raise their thinking above stone-age levels, and to condemn teachings which the true heart knows to be hateful?

[baphomet]

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me - Luke

(Luke 19: 27) I first saw that quote on a documentary called 'The God Who Wasn't There', it was a shameful and deliberate deception in order to make jesus out to be a violent man, that quote was actually from a parable that he was telling his followers and was not an instruction for his followers to kill anyone. Your either intentionally trying to deceive people or (more likely) got tricked yourself.

Deutronomy, Leviticus & Numbers have nothing to do with the teachings of jesus, they are from the torah (the old testament) which is the most holy book of the JEWS!!!

"if media believing extremist people are going to take the koran in a literal context and judge an entire religion on that, then you should tell your christian family to fuck off as well."

There are things in the new testament that I do not agree with but the teachings of jesus were non violent and highly moral (perhaps a little too moral), try as you may I doubt you will be able to tarnish his reputation, most of the shit people say about christianity is incorrect as it comes from the old testament which is the holy book of the JEWS, like I said, people have no problem criticising christians these days but they will never direct this criticism where it rightfully belongs because it is not politically correct

For you to try to compare jesus and mohumed is absolutely ridiculous, the teachings of jesus were probably second behind buddhism IMO in terms of respectability, whereas the theiving pedeophile warlord/false prophet mohumed ordered his followers to murder and steal from others. I can't understand how people these days can say that terrorists cutting off peoples heads are peverting the peacefull religion of islam when mohumed apparently did the same thing himself.

"it would be a fraction of one percent of the worlds 1.5 billion muslims that would condone public executions or terrorist acts"

Bullshit!!

"if muslims were really so against the west, and wanted to oppress western ideas and install a traditional way of life based on old fashioned, outmoded koranic interperetation, then i hate to say this, but the rest of the world wouldnt stand a chance if there was an uprising."

They (in general) are, 'They' do, 'they' are currently attempting exactly that and if they succeed it will only be because western countries are mostly populated with people like you.

"in the end it will be anti-islam hatred, not contemporary islam, that will be responsible for the flow of blood."

EDIT: I'll try to get to your previous post later, that was all the crap I could handle for one day.

Edited February 18, 2009 by baphomet

[B. Loco]

(Luke 19: 27) I first saw that quote on a documentary called 'The God Who Wasn't There', it was a shameful and deliberate deception in order to make jesus out to be a violent man, that quote was actually from a parable that he was telling his followers and was not an instruction for his followers to kill anyone. Your either intentionally trying to deceive people or (more likely) got tricked yourself.

I'm using this as an example of literal translation, as mentioned. how much clearer should i have been for you in my intention ? although it wasnt that complex a motive, im still glad you are switched on enough to have followed my path.

Deutronomy, Leviticus & Numbers have nothing to do with the teachings of jesus, they are from the torah (the old testament) which is the most holy book of the JEWS!!!

Where did i mention jesus? i have book sitting in front of me now, it quite clearly says 'the holy bible' and it contains those verses. it doesnt say 'the holy bible plus bonus prelude'. the old testament is the building block of contemporary christianity, like it or not. i didnt write the history books.

For you to try to compare jesus and mohumed is absolutely ridiculous,

again, where exactly did i specifically mention jesus? don't put words into a post that simply werent there to begin with. my reference is to holy texts. please pay attention.

the teachings of jesus were probably second behind buddhism IMO in terms of respectability,

youre probably right there, interesting though that in some buddhist cultures (south east asia), the women have to kneel so they are lower than the monks when they give alms. that's also a disrespect to women isnt it?

whereas the theiving pedeophile warlord/false prophet mohumed ordered his followers to murder and steal from others.

what culture was the child molester that scarred you as a young boy or girl? i will bet you 1000 turkish lira that he wasnt a muslim

They (in general) are, 'They' do, 'they' are currently attempting exactly that and if they succeed it will only be because western countries are mostly populated with people like you.

oh so its the big scary muslim hoards now that are making you shiver at night? if you were around 25 years ago you would have been the communist russians that were set to take over the universe. word of advice, keep your eye on China, brother. the world as we know it will sooner be conquered by brute economic force rather than a bunch of devout and largely peaceful religionists

i maintain that its hate like yours that will bring out tensions in the islamic culture, not any teachings of the scripture itself. how many times can a follower of religion be expected to hear this shit from you before saying 'right that it, im going to fuck you up'. if there is an uprising it will be people like you that brought it on for being so intolerant of that which you do not understand outside of the message you hear on the propaganda machine - or for all i know in your head (its looking more and more like you are an unstable type who's due for a meltdown)

[B. Loco]

bump.

seems like that racist, religionist donkeyhead has temporarily burned himself out.

can i ask how many other people here have a blind hate towards islam, any more than they do about old christian hate? the old fashioned ideas from both books - the koran and the bible - are pathetic and stupid and no one judges the western world on the bible even though the leaders are so caught up in the bastarded righteousness. so the gripe is about saudi arabia not the koran, in this first post. i hope people understand the difference.

[chilli]

the straw that broke the camels back (camel being my religious tolerance) probably has something to do with a rape victim being jailed and lashed, and discovering that muslims are instructed 109 times by their scripture to kill, convert or humiliate me. FUCK THEM who would stand behind such teachings.

B Loco: my newfound intolerance is directed, at bare minimum, towards the scriptures of judaism, islam and christianity.

i'm not a mean person, i probably wouldn't call a person an idiot to their face because they identify as a christian, but it is how i feel at the moment. infected by a bad meme from over-exposure, as SC suggested in another thread? maybe, but it hasn't left a bad taste in my mouth YET. what does bug me is that nobody i have spoken to seems to quite get the point: if i wrote a scripture that said to stab children in the eyes with scissors, it would be condemned, and people wouldn't let their children near my followers. isn't that a fair analogy?

can we not expect people to raise their thinking above stone-age levels, and to condemn teachings which the true heart knows to be hateful?

Absolutely, I completely agree with you. The point I am making in this and other threads is that so would many, many Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, Witches, Satanists... many, most people who identify as such do not stand by the kind of beliefs you mention.

These labels are far too general to be used to constructively talk about what are very diverse beliefs and practices of the adherents, groups and individuals. At the very least, we should sub categorize as much as possible, eg. extremist or moderate Islam, orthodox or reformed Judaism, liberal or evangelical Christianity, white or black or chaos magic... even these labels are too general I think, but are a big improvement over "people who believe in scriptures" or "whining Jews" don't you think?

I think its basically useless to make generalizations about any "kind" of person: people should be treated on a case by case basis. At heart, I believe most religious people are like you, ie. "not a mean person." These are people who do not want to hurt anyone, but are themselves hurting, messed up and confused.

This has been my experience of people of all stripes, and I know a lot of variously religious or spiritual people, and have spent well over a decade studying various religions. People crave certainty, especially in chaotic times, and this is what leads so many people to follow morons who seem sure about something, however preposterous.

This should be our enemy, if we feel we need to have one: violence in all its forms, along with the thinking that produces it: ignorance leading to fear, fear leading to "certainty" and dogma, to ethnocentrism, xenophobia and hate.

It is the ideas and beliefs and the scriptures themselves that should be scrutinized, analyzed... ripped to shreds for all I care.

What bothers me, and the kind of meme I think we need to be wary of being infected by, is polarizing issues and simplistically hating and blaming other groups of people for the problems in the world.

This is exactly the kind of stone age level thinking we need to rise above.

[Torsten]

The point I am making in this and other threads is that so would many, many Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, Witches, Satanists... many, most people who identify as such do not stand by the kind of beliefs you mention.

So, it is OK to be a member of the nazi party as long as one distances oneself from the genocidal aspect of that party?

These labels are far too general to be used to constructively talk about what are very diverse beliefs and practices of the adherents, groups and individuals. At the very least, we should sub categorize as much as possible, eg. extremist or moderate Islam, orthodox or reformed Judaism, liberal or evangelical Christianity, white or black or chaos magic... even these labels are too general I think

I agree with you there. But aren't you just trying to label people more accurately rather than broadly in an effort to distinguish the discimination better? ie, your system would allow us to accept moderate muslims, but reject extreme muslims. Moderate muslims might now blow up trade towers, but they still discriminate against gays, so you are just making different levels of discrimination acceptable.

I think its basically useless to make generalizations about any "kind" of person: people should be treated on a case by case basis. At heart, I believe most religious people are like you, ie. "not a mean person." These are people who do not want to hurt anyone, but are themselves hurting, messed up and confused.

Most members of the nazi party also weren't mean people, yet they supported or at least allowed atrocities to be committed as a result of their 'general' support for an organisation.

What bothers me, and the kind of meme I think we need to be wary of being infected by, is polarizing issues and simplistically hating and blaming other groups of people for the problems in the world.

I agree with you completely. That's why I dislike most religions. Religions are by their very nature polarizing and these organisations infect generation after generation with this meme. If you really dislike this meme so much you should not be defending the biggest sources of the greatest amount of racial and social discrimination, which is what religions are.

[chilli]

Like Baphomet, you seem determined to slant and distort my words which are moderate and humane to make it sound as though I am intolerant and supporting hate. As I said, we should tear into ideas, not discriminate against entire groups of people. My suggestion of at least using more refined labels was a concession to those who feel the need to categorize people, I try to avoid this where possible.

You advocate writing off groups of people you know very little about on the basis, not of beliefs or practices that they say they hold, but beliefs you stubbornly attribute to them, despite what they themselves might say about what they believe! This is why I have not bothered to answer many of Baphomet's questions, because I do not feel obligated to answer childish questions like "so you are saying you support child rape?" etc.

Originally, I thought this little furore (not a pun hehe) was just a result of a misunderstanding, a problem of definitions, but now I see that the issues run a lot deeper than that. I think this may be why some people have resisted or distorted my single, simple insistence that it is wrong to blame Jews generally for Israel's criminal actions: it is not that they don't understand, but that they want to blame Jews because of their prejudice towards them. Everybody needs and enemy, it seems!

Likewise, Torsten, you seem to want to blame Muslims, Christians, all religions and sacred writings, for the problems in the world, thus perpetuating the very problems you decry. Not very enlightened. Actually, I think your views are simply prejudiced, intolerant and bigoted. Like most people with this mentality, you sound actually quite ignorant of the things you are so prejudiced against and denounce so radically. I am not saying this with malice, but this is how what you have written on the subject of religion so far sounds to me.

You should realize that your ironically ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, inerrantist, literalistic interpretations of scripture are not shared by many religious people. You seem to say these people are hypocrites, but the irony is that in order to argue that people who read the scriptures differently from you are not being consistent, you have to adopt the very mentality of those you are decrying, that is, the orthodoxy, literalism and dogmatism you say you deplore!

What you really seem to be arguing for is a literalistic approach to Scripture, and that only a very dogmatic religion is a "real" religion!

For example, when you say that all Christians tacitly support homophobia and should rightly be scorned by homosexuals, you are actually making a theological argument that "true" Christians should believe in an inerrant, authoritative Bible. But many, many Christians simply do not! You are arrogating to yourself the right of interpreting other people's religious writings for them, for instance homosexual Christians, of which there are a lot! Drop in to the Metropolitan Community Church next time you're in the city, if you don't believe me.

Similarly, when Baphomet claims that "true" Judaism supports homophobia, he makes his own interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures normative for what "true" Jews should believe, and contradicts, devalues and dismisses what many, many Jews actually do believe.

And worst of all, you do the same thing with Hip-Hop and Aleister Crowley!

I bet that is statistically a highly improbable sentence fragment.

I might return to this topic in future, when I have more emotional energy to spend on what at the moment seems like a futile and frustrating endeavor. However, as long as the administrator of this forum openly condones and even advocates bigotry, intolerance and racism I think I will stop participating here for a while, as I don't want to be a part of the kind of community where that is winked at or explained away.

I have gotten a lot of value from this forum over the years, and made some friends. As I have told my wife at times, this forum is the closest thing I have to an accepting community at the moment, which I guess is pretty pathetic, but true, so this is not a light or easy decision for me.

I do appreciate the encouragement and understanding I have received from a lot of you over the past couple of years, although I have to say many of the people who I feel this way about don't seem to be posting much these days.

It would be nice to return one day and have a rational and fair discussion about these matters, one that results in understanding instead of anger and division... and I realize I do my part to contribute to this, as well. I will still drop in to visit the plant forums occasionally, as I've developed a rich understanding of ethnobotany from this forum over the last 6 or 7 years, and learned many things that I haven't found in other forums, and to check my PM's.

Hopefully, some of those of you who share Baphomet's and Torsten's beliefs on these matters will try to gain some more perspective, and a deeper knowledge of the things you denounce, and transcend these unhelpful and backwards ways of thinking about people. Stop dividing and caricaturing, stop hating and blaming generalized groups of Bad People and Enemies! Basically, stop acting like such a bunch of Richard Dawkinses!

I oppose this mentality of "US" vs "THEM" whether its held by Israelis, Palestinians, Americans, Jews, Raelians, Christians, Muslims, bogans, surfers, goths or skaters! It is just the same fucking stupid hyper-charged high school dynamic with nuclear weapons involved!

I want to offer a serious warning that this is not the kind of thinking this world needs at the moment, it is intimately connected with real violence. In these chaotic times where many people are suffering terribly for what god they they believe in, their sexual orientation, what color their skin is, who they vote for, what they wear, where they live, on and on, it is creating a background buzz of HATE, even as the world seems to be rushing into a new dark age.

I am not religious, if forced I would say I am a "soft" atheist or agnostic, a position that has been challenged by profound mystical experiences, and a certain kind of logic, whereas other profound experiences and logic(s!) seem to confirm an atheistic view! Ah, good old duality... its fun to play with.

Nevertheless, as an avid student of religion, I leave you with these intolerant and hate inspiring scriptures:

"I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.

Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.

Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful"

Shalom!

Edited February 21, 2009 by Sublime Crime

[Torsten]

I don't need to read 'Mein Kampf' to know that the nazi party provided the popular support for a regime that committed atrocities. Similarly I don't need to become intricately familiar with sacred texts to know that there are aspects in these texts that promote bigotry, hatred and violence. So, it is irrelevant just how much I know about religions and their scriptures.

You also complete missed my point. I don't care if there are splinter groups in religions that do not condone these passages. A member of a nazi splinter group is still a nazi because ultimately when push comes to shove the splinter groups are more likely to side with the core group than with the opposing side. In religion, the many christian groups will still for the most part side with other christian groups rather than with gay rights groups for example.

Obviously not all jews are responsible for the atrocities in the middle east. I know plenty of them who find the actions abhorrent. However, when they HAVE TO make a choice whether to side with israel or with palestine almost all of them will side with Israel. I am talking about the ones I know, not all jews in general, so maybe my sample is not representative, but I doubt it.

So no, no one is being discriminated against because of their birth situation. It is voluntary membership of intolerant organisations that I hold individuals accountable for. Regardless of whether these are political, religious, social, or whatever else people come up with to unfairly distinguish themselves from the rest. Individuals should not be able to hide behind the sacresanct status of 'religion' to be held accountable. Most people would not tolerate that from any other organisation, so why do we accept it from a bunch of loons who claim to have all-powerful imaginary friends?

[Torsten]

sublime crime, there are some quotes in your sigline that I have not seen before. I presume these are from baphomet? can you please show me where they are as they are not acceptable.

“"Opressed black people"? GTF outa here! Slavery ended 143 years ago! they have no one to blame but themselves!!”

How is this racist? It just shows baph's ignorance of history. I mean, obviously only a racist person would state something like this, but the statement itself is not racist. This is a fine line baph walks most of the time, but you don't seem to understand the difference.

“white rappers are nothing but a bunch of nigger worshiping pansies!”

Unacceptable. Please show me where if it is still there.

“If the black people in these neighborhoods were a little smarter, more honest and hard working, had a stronger sense of morals, stopped stealing from and murdering their fellow man and stopped selling crack to their mothers, then maybe they would get somewhere?”

See my first comment. he did not talk about all black people, but about a social group within the black community. Again, I disagree with him completely and feel that such tripe can only come from someone who is racist, but the statement itself isn't racist. Sustitute the word white for black and no one would regard it as a racial statement.

“If people want freedom of speech and want to be able to drop words like nigger, bitch, hoe, etc then they should be prepared for me to call them niggers, etc!”

Fair point. I've never understood why only fags are allowed to call themselves fags. If you want equality then you have to accept equality on all sides. The whole concept of owning your derogative terminology is stupid and just breeds more inequality.

Baphomet does bring up uncomfortable topics.

"Does everyone agree with the FACT that islamophobia is a perfectly rational fear and a logical reaction to a hateful, prejudice, backwards, dangerous belief system? And likewise anti semitism is a perfectly rational reaction to a prejudiced, racist, genocidal, religion?"

Like I have said in the last few posts, religions are organisation of voluntary membership, so if people want to belong to organisations that are widely viewed as hateful and prejudiced then that's their problem and they need to answer to that. We put up with such discimination every day - the only difference with baphomet is that he regards all religions that way rather than what most other people do who just regard one or not-the-one-they-belong-to in such negative light.

[Gunter]

Could be worse, Jews often stoned to death women for similar things according to their scriptures.

Any nation based on a religion is going to commit atrocities.

[baphomet]

Like Baphomet, you seem determined to slant and distort my words which are moderate and humane to make it sound as though I am intolerant and supporting hate

That's really cheeky mate, accusing someone of distorting your words when one of the main reasons that you are posting here is to run away from THIS thread where you were busted doing exactly that, in case anyone hasn't been following it, here's a bit of background. For countless posts over countless threads you have been lying and deceiving people in an effort to try to make me out to be a monster and distract them from the fact that you are getting totally fucking owned in every thread in which you try to debate something with me, that is not me being arrogant, it's the truth.

Your main tactic in this bogus ad hominem attack was to claim that I was conflating jews with zionists whist anyone who was following these threads would be very much aware of the fact that not only do I know the difference, I have outlined it several times and gone into it in great detail, I also linked to a video by rabbi weiss from jews against zionism, post 14 in THIS Thread, in fact looking back on that post people will see that as early as back then you were falsely accusing me of this and when I said "I think your talking shit!! Please back up the accusation that you have just made by quoting me" you came up with.. absolutely nothing, you knew back then that what you were saying was a blatant lie but you persisted in making this claim and when you finally produced this "evidence" it was another lie/fabrication, in fact the most blatant example of lying I have ever seen in a forum, the problem is that when you lie on a forum there are permanent records of everything that has been said so I don't know who you think your fooling?

In the first thread I linked to, you took something I said that had nothing to do with zionism and inserted the words "zionist jews" in there, (I still can't believe you did that) then you claimed that I said that jews are parasites who secretly run the world which is another lie, here you are doing it again to justify your cowardice.

eg:

This is why I have not bothered to answer many of Baphomet's questions, because I do not feel obligated to answer childish questions like "so you are saying you support child rape?" etc.

If you put something in inverted comma's to indicate that you are quoting someone, then you'd better make sure that it is EXACTLY what they have said, WORD FOR WORD! It's not ok to change it a little to suit your purposes or add little bits into quotes, the fact of the matter is that what you have quoted me on above are not my words, this is what I actually said "Do you think it is wrong to rape children and keep them as sex slaves and if so should it ALWAYS be condemned?" I also asked if you feel the same way about racism, homophobia, etc, I should note that just before I asked that question I said this "I think you will still be too scared to answer these questions but it's worth a try.." I have asked again since then and your still too scared to answer them and the reason for that is obvious, you know damn well where I am leading with this and you know that I have a valid point. You changed my words here to make the question sound infantile and cover up the fact that you are a coward who is running away from a discussion that you are simply too scared to have.

The fact is that the discussion has reached a point where you can no longer escape these issues and are forced to take some kind of moral stance regarding the things contained in these religious texts, others can see the game that you are playing and have urged you to answer the questions too but rather than bite the bullet you decided to act like some kind of pathetic wannabee martyr for the cause of political correctness and bow out of the discussion rather than face the music regarding your lies and exposure of the flaws in your logic. Your attempt at trying to trigger an emotive response with your avatar and the words written underneath it are corny at best and people should keep in mind that you are unwilling or unable to debate the real history of the holocaust as well as the countless war crimes that it has been used to justify and it's use as a propaganda tool to silence critics of israel and judaism in general. For all I know there could be no jews at all in that photo, they could have all been freemasons, disabled people, gypsies, homosexuals, prisoners of war, etc, etc, etc, and they may have died of typhoid. If you can show me proof that 6 million jews were systematically executed by the nazi's in concentration camps I will dress up as a rabbi and strip to the tune of havanagela at the steps of Flinders St station during peak hour till I get arested, I will video tape it and upload it on Utube, I will also donate $2000 to the simon weisenthal centre and send you a copy of the receipt.

BTW, your other major gripe (other than the lie about me conflating judaism with zionism) is also invalid due to the fact that the person who said "I am sick to death of whining jews" did not say that all jews are whiners, therefore it is not a racist generalisation! If he said "I'm sick of racist white people" you wouldn't have a problem, same thing!! But the fact that one sounds more acceptable says a lot, to be honest I'm sick of your incessant whining too, you have no grounds to complain here!

“white rappers are nothing but a bunch of nigger worshiping pansies!”

The quotes you listed from me regarding black people were out of context and I have asked you many times to go back to THE THREAD THAT YOU ARE QUOTING THEM FROM and discuss them in their original context and tell me what makes you think that I am a racist, as expected you were unable to do that, the best you could do was this:

"Baphomet, I do think you are racist, and to explain why I have another riddle for you, in the form of a rap song:

Verse 1

Aight dis be da way da madfukin shit be goin ima break dat shit down fo all yall nigazz niggaz caint fuk wif dis nigga cos cuntz ll git fucked up madafucka yall niggaz know why cos dis neggz be aq crazy assed nigga dis nigga dont fuk wif niggaz main madafuk yall niggaz talkin dat bullshit madafuckas brang dat shit on nigga cos dis nigga take all yall niggaz on madafuka dont be fuckin wit a nigga likie this dis negga be swearin that shit muthafuka if cunts wanna fuk around they be gettin fucked up!

Chorus

yeah nigga!

madafukaz!

(Repeat 3x)

Verse 2

muthafuckas wanna fuckaround biatch ass'negga put a nega dik in a negz bro dont b fukin wif dis nigga dis negga sweardat shitmadafuka fuk niggas niggas be in this bitch wit too much shit negaz nah brada dis negga dont take dat kinda shit madafucka, kunts wana fuck around negga dont call di negga crib no mo'kunts'll git fucked up madafaka yeah nigga dis nigga done tell allyall niggaz befo' dont fuk wid a nigga like me cos yall niggaz gots to recognize, a kunt like me- FUK niggaz up...sunamabitch!

Chorus

yeah nigga!

madafukaz!

(Repeat 3x)

Bridge

madafukaz any niggaz wana bring drama bring that shit on niggaz cos cunts'll git fucked up neggaz , cuntz dat fuk with this cunt git fucked up madafuckaz swear brada sweye madafuka negaz dont knoe me disnegga a krazyassed muthafuka dont be fuckin wid a nigga like dis u git fuked up !!

Chorus

yeah nigga!

madafukaz!

(Repeat 3x)

When considering this quote “white rappers are nothing but a bunch of nigger worshiping pansies!” people should keep in mind that the thread was called 'Hip Hop Bitches, Hoes and Niggaz' and was started by you, in fact you used the word nigger 4 times before I even posted (not including the title) and it was frequently used by other members.

You initially asked "What is the difference between this kind of thing, and some white guy rapping about "niggers" acting like violent criminal thugs and drug dealers, like he could just say "I'm just talking about niggers who don't respect themselves and who act like niggers"

Which lead other people to ask "how do you act like a nigger? or what is a nigger?" and someone else said "the rapper has a choice to not 'act like a nigger'" so when I said that “white rappers are nothing but a bunch of nigger worshiping pansies!” I meant the term "nigger" to mean rappers who define themselves as "niggers" and not all black people, I have no problem with black people like Deloris Tucker who oppose this use of the term nigger and the disgusting lyrics contained in most rap music, I make a clear distinction between black people and self proclaimed "niggers".

"Opressed black people"? GTF outa here! Slavery ended 143 years ago! they have no one to blame but themselves!!”

Let's deal with that in it's full context

"Opressed black people"? GTF outa here! Slavery ended 143 years ago! they have no one to blame but themselves!! But many of them like to blame everything on the white man, other immigrants such as koreans live in the same neighborhoods and start off with even less in many cases but due to hard honest work they usually own the local corner store in no time and send their kids through college!"

Most rappers like to call themselves "project niggers" and refer to black people who live in houses as "house niggers", the fact of the matter is that america now has a black president and black people in general are no longer oppressed due to their race, it is now white people who are most racially discriminated against in america! This quote was a response to you suggesting that white rappers don't have the right to use the word "nigger" because they are not (quote) "oppressed black people". Your exact words were "it would be unthinkable for a white rapper to say something like that, because of their privileged status as opposed to oppressed black people", this makes me sick because not all white people are privileged and not all black people are oppressed or poor, for example rappers like nelly are from a privileged background whilst many white rappers are inbred white trailer trash and are far from privileged, you were making a racist generalisation that was totally incorrect.

The fact of the matter remains that what I said about the koreans in these neighborhoods is true, yet most people (including yourself) make excuses for the black people in the same situation. When black people commit a crime it is not their fault it is due to the "poverty" and their "oppressed status", this is bullshit, they need to take some responsibility for their situation.

“If the black people in these neighborhoods were a little smarter, more honest and hard working, had a stronger sense of morals, stopped stealing from and murdering their fellow man and stopped selling crack to their mothers, then maybe they would get somewhere?”

To understand this statement one must realise that it was a statement designed to offend in order to make a point further down the track. The words that immediately proceeded this were "I am generalising and I know it but" .. I went on to demonstrate that black people say the same things themselves and provided links to rap songs saying much worse than this, my point was to highlight the shock and offense that people feel when a white person is saying it and their tolerance of black people saying the same thing, it is totally hypocritical and my aim was to highlight the double standards in society that allow this to continue. I am sick of being likened to white meat and having black rappers glorify the killing of white people and having tryhard little wigger fucks singing along with them when I can't say anything critical about black people in general, even if it's true.

“If people want freedom of speech and want to be able to drop words like nigger, bitch, hoe, etc then they should be prepared for me to call them niggers, etc!”

Amen!

"Does everyone agree with the FACT that islamophobia is a perfectly rational fear and a logical reaction to a hateful, prejudice, backwards, dangerous belief system? And likewise anti semitism is a perfectly rational reaction to a prejudiced, racist, genocidal, religion?"

Leqba corrected me on the term islamophobia but I still stand by the FACT that islam is a dangerous, divisive, hateful, prejudice belief system and is definitely something to fear, even though people are capitalising on this fear and using it as an excuse to justify wars and take away our civil liberties, one need only look at a muslim country as a microcosm to imagine the macrocosm of a world run by islamists.

Antisemetism (specifically religious antisemtism) is defined as "the prejudice against, or hostility toward, the Jewish people based on hostility to Judaism and to Jews as a religious group". I have been waiting for you or anyone else to tell me what is wrong with this exactly but so far no one has been able to.

"Condoned by this site's administrator, and apparently do not qualify as racism."

That is not true, my views are mine alone! Just because Torsten allows me to express them it doesn't mean he supports them!! The threads you are quoting from are old, from the first few weeks of me signing up and predate the time that I developed great respect for many members here (not least of whom Torsten), I knew my boundaries, knew how far was too far and I walked a fine line, my intention was to shock and offend to prove a point and I may have gone too far in some cases, if need be I will edit some posts but don't blame Torsten or any other moderators, I purposely pushed things to the limit but did my best not to give them a reason to ban me (although Torsten and others did warn me). If you look at the quotes that you cherrypicked on their own out of context then it does look like the moderators had a reason to intervene but when they are looked at in their original context things become blury, especially considering the fact that you used the word nigger 4 times before I did as well as naming the thread "Hip Hop Bitches, Hoes and Niggaz".

You are one hell of a drama queen.. and did I mention that you are a deceitful coward?.. And a sore looser?? Anyways, just do the right thing and remove that bullshit from your post, at least the lie about my views being condoned by the site administrator, stop acting like such an asshole.

Cont'd (edit - on second thoughts, this will be my last post for a while)

Edited February 23, 2009 by baphomet

[chilli]

Damn it I shouldn't have looked at this thread again! Torsten, I am supposed to be leaving, just let me have the last word! ;)

I am going to force myself not to look at this thread again after this, because there are so many inconsistencies, and I feel compelled by the voice of God to bring balance.

Now, this is what I mean about entering a new dark age... your comments on Jews and religion generally are basically at what I think of as "Youtube" stage, maybe a "Yahoo! Answers" level.

For instance, you still seem to have failed to understand what an ethnoreligious group is. This matters, because most Jews do not consider being Jewish a matter of choice, but that they have been born into a particular ethnic identity. This is why there are so many atheist Jews, compared to very few openly atheist Muslims or Christians.

This "Youtube Yahoo" is a very serious condition. It usually comes from ingrained, learned prejudices, or as a result of exposure to a popular mind virus designed by the master of memes himself, the grand wizard, Richard Dawkins.

I recommend educating yourself about religion that beyond what you learned at that camp when you were 12 or whatever, especially if you wish to denounce it so vigorously as the Root of All Evil. You seem to be guided mainly by your emotions on this issue, which while valid and understandable, are a completely unreliable source for interpreting the beliefs of people you admit to knowing so little about.

Being badly treated by certain religious people is something I can sympathize with, and probably most people on this forum. Being gay doesn't give you the inside scoop on prejudice, and other minority groups are subject to similar treatment by bigoted, ignorant people, for example atheists and drug users.

Actually, I have a staggeringly higher ratio of very unpleasant interactions with people professing Christianity I have met, compared to any other belief system, or even just people generally. It's a large part of why I am hiding out in Aotearoa. As a result, I am much more disposed to be prejudiced towards them than any other group I can think of, so I am extra careful not to make inaccurate, sweeping statements about them.

________________

Baphomet, none of those things you said are true, probably... I only read a couple of bits and surmised it was samo, samo, which unless it is written by Jean-Michelle Basquiat, is a waste of my time!

Just wanted to say though, thanks for showing me so much about myself in the course of showing me so much about yourself. ;)

And yes, I know I'm a drama queen, I'm a mentally ill artist, what did you expect?!

I actually wrote that exact sentence in my last post, but then edited it out.

Peace out my niggaz... don't hate!

Word.