ash and pituri !!!

[t st tantra]

this must be one of the revelations of eb3,it sugests quite a few experiments.

many of the lectures and workshops at eb3 were accompanied by samples,it was i think one of the highlights,the pituri lecture provided samples of pituri and of ash.i chewed a very large pinch of twigs for a mild flavour and stimulation.i tried so many things but i think this was the one with a bit of fish sauce to it's after taste.then i had some twigs and ash,it was like an explosion in my mouth,flavours, burning,alkaloids!

this is something i have wondered about for years and had tried to source lime unsuccessfully.

but if ash can be easily produced i'll try that.

t s t .

[ 07. December 2003, 09:34: Message edited by: t st tantra ]

[coin]

the lime paste i see around in indian stores is always in a little tub, manufactured in thailand, as are the packets of dried betel leaves

http://importfood.com/lime_paste.html

http://importfood.com/miangkham_leaves.html

just as an aside, something i've never heard anyone mention around the traps, is katha paste..this comes in hard, pressed blocks, and is either the reduced decoction(?) of the areca catechu tree's heartwood, or its bark..different sources conflicting ... it's tannin-rich obviously, and i think this is included only for it's medicinal properties, but is supposedly the most popular additive (astringent/disinfectant obviously), though in some regions it is omitted, or simply the whole unprocessed bark is used

..but if i can send you some lime..?

interestingly, i read recently that some indian vendors (paanwallas) include not only tobacco but a pinch of datura also. i suppose this is more popular amongst shaivites

anyway, sorry for going off topic

[ 07. December 2003, 13:34: Message edited by: coin ]

[Adrian]

Hi t st,

I tried the pituri with and without the ash and found both to be very strong.

Unlike other nicotine containg substances like chewing gum or chewing tobacco I found that this was much more stimulating, slightly euphoric & generally pleasant.

Unlike the other forms I didn't have an I'll feeling and cold sweats.

I'd love to get a hold of some more if it is available.

If this means cultivating it or travelling into central Australia I'll keep my bags packed.

I definately agree that powdered ash would be preferable to the hydrated lime as I've been unsuccessful at producing a safe paste.

[gomaos]

I mixed the pituri branches and leaves from eb3 with my drum smoking tobacco and am still smoking it.

I find it very nice.

Not really into chewing tobacco....

[planthelper]

henry,

can i pls have some of your seeds?

[Torsten]

Pituri grows on private land. The owners of this land are not interested in trading pituri or even letting people on this land, regardless of what money or story you might have. There are MUCH bigger things at stake out there right now and pituri interferes dangerously with these issues. Simply packing your bags and heading west won't do it. Once you do your research you will find that to do this as anything other than a suicide mission requires careful planning, more research and some essential equipment (ie $$). But most importantly it requires the right contacts. I've been researching this for years and was almost ready for the trip a couple of months ago, but after talking to Henry I am glad I didn't quite get around to it. Much more work to be done...

Henry has promised to make some seed available to people who are most likely to succeed in growing it. I figure this means an understanding of arid zone culture and an understanding of the Solanaceae. It also means having the facilities to replicate the climatic conditions. Anything less than this is wasted seed.

Henry has already promised seed to a few people in this community and I am sure that these people will in turn share what they get. Henry is a busy man and the last thing he needs is to be hassled. It seems there will be plenty of seed to go around, so maybe best not to bother him too much.

[nabraxas]

Torsten-

quote:

---

There are MUCH bigger things at stake out there right now and pituri interferes dangerously with these issues.

---

:confused: --can you elaborate?

[Torsten]

As Henry explained in his talk, landrights are a major feature of any negotiations in that part of the world right now. It's a messy situation and Henry is one of the few people who know how to deal with it (as best as it can be dealt with). Anything any of us do is likely to make the whole situation worse.... both for the rest of our community as well as the aboriginal community.

[JumpedAngel]

I am a newbie to this site and am only now catching up with some threads of interest.

I was interested to hear that pituri was available at EB3.

I went out into the desert some decades ago now in search of this beastie, and after some near death experiences managed to aquire it.

I learned to avoid both ash and lime, I have found both to be extremely corrosive on the teeth.

Much experience was gained sailing around PNG and the Solomon Islands where many young people no longer have teeth by their mid teens, this was lime/betel nut.

Yeh, smoking it wasnt too bad, I stuck a hand full in a bottle of Gin, and took that down to the Waterstock Music Festival some years ago, educational.

Tolerance seems to be reduced after time, ash and lime are thought to be inconsequential then.

[Torsten]

ash is absolutely ESSENTIAL to get a strong overpowering hit from almost any masticant. Sure, midl stimulation can be achieved from chewing without, but it simply doesn't compare.

I would tend to agree about the corrosiveness of lime (calcium hydroxide), but I wonder if this really does apply to ash as well. I doubt it. Other options are baking soda or even the definitely harmless limestone (gardenlime). I know a lot of the locals use baking soda for their various masticants.

[t st tantra]

finally found some lime,next to the betel,of course.

there was gypsum there too,so i guess this is also used.

what is the red lime paste?

in the amazon the ash is collected together,water is added,the liquid is poured off and the process repeated until the liquid is no longer cloudy.

the water is evapourated off leaving an alkaline salt and this is used as ash and lime are used.

t s t .

[JumpedAngel]

Where Pituri is concerned I did a lot of study years ago concerning the plant and its applications, prior to going out and searching for it.

Back then I recall my greatest fear was mucking things up by not being able to cure the harvest, as I had read that this was an important part of preparation.

I remember reading that the herb was buried, and or baked.

My culinary forays into Aboriginal cuisine lead me to suspect that this curing process involved nothing more than rapping the herd in a paper-bark bundle, then burying the package in a fire place with hot coals and sand and leaving it for a few days.

Stories of storage caves, may have had more to do with the aging of the herb than the simple hording of it, where else do you come across a story of an Aboriginal hording anything?.

Having had access to both cured/aged pituri as well as the fresh dry herb there appears to be a marked difference in effects, not that I was ever that regular a user, but I believe this too should be sounded out.

[Torsten]

excellent angle angel! After all not many people would smoke uncured tobacco either. I wonder if it takes away some of the spicy heat, as I found that to be almost unbearable. Several people claimed this to be caused by the nicotine itself, but I don't understand why chimo paste doesn't have that taste effect even though it is much more concentrated nicotine. Maybe the heat is caused by an essential oil that needs to be removed by curing....

[JumpedAngel]

From what I recall the cured stuff was less unpleasant with an almost sweet or ripened aftertaste.

[JumpedAngel]

My intuition keeps screaming “fermentation product” at me whenever I consider cured pituri, this however is beyond my abilities to investigate.

More on lime, I distinctly remember my travels throughout PNG and the Solomon Islands and the effects of lime on those people.

Stage one was a complete reddening of the inside of the mouth and teeth, as if every cell was under attack, like if someone had been chewing those red choo-choo bars for hours. (So what is in the red lime paste?)

By stage two the teeth had turned completely black.

Stage three showed the teeth to be corroded away to black stumps.

And the final stage was no teeth at all, I wish I had been more of a photographer back then.

Several years ago, I wrote an article for a local journal, on the historical use of plaster and lime putty in the trade of stonemasonry over several millennia, It became apparent to me back then through my research that the hydration of lime cycle is not immediate and never really complete, and that the best quality lime putties in statuary works for example was that from the oldest putty (left covered in water for decades and regularly agitated), Other references showed examples of ancient monuments where they were disassembled for modification to the building only to find that the lime putty used as mortar had still not fully hydrated after being a part of the masonry for centuries.

I am further reminded that in poorer tropical countries the corpses of people who had died as a result of infectious diseases were covered in lime in order to accelerate and aid in the decomposition of the corpse. Lime, it appears, retains the capacity to dehydrate living cells for many years after it has been slaked (mixed with water).

In considering ash, all I see is chemicals of the same periodic group and am left wondering as it certainly felt corrosive on my very sensitive teeth, and yes this was the carfully prepared ash of the sand hill wattle.

[t st tantra]

t st tantra:

in the amazon the ash is collected together,water is added,the liquid is poured off and the process repeated until the liquid is no longer cloudy.

the water is evapourated off leaving an alkaline salt and this is used as ash and lime are used.

t s t .

someone posted a link to tga schedules and i noticed a mention of 'alkaline salts', in schedule E ,i think.

t s t .