Good and Evil

[chilli]

I'm interested in hearing the beliefs of others on this forum with regards to good and evil.

Do you believe such distinctions can be made, or do you have more of a non-dualist or monistic belief? What are the reasons for your belief?

If you do believe in a distinction between good and evil, how do you make them? Are they mutually exclusive categories, or do they exist on a spectrum?

What kinds of things do you define as good or evil?

How can we tell if we are deceived, so that what we believe to be good is actually evil, and vice versa?

These are the kind of questions I am interested in hearing answers to, but feel free to broaden the topic.

[mutant]

no such thing as good and evil, regard them to be monotheistic morals values. I hate morals, especially other people's morals, especially morals that are suspect of dark motives like christian ones.

man should make his own ethics, what are his own limits limits etc....

that said, every ideology has a standard, every stand, so, only way is function properly is among people with similar morals as yours

[Inyan]

Good and Evil, Heaven and Hell, propaganda and truth... what you believe and have been led to believe is based on the motives of those who wish to spread their own wishes, desires, objectives... which is very subjective and extremely variable. Ethnocentric dogma clouds the mind in such a way that any truth is quickly squashed in favor of the powers that be. Free thinking, questioning, etc. is often related to the obscure realm of rebellious minds who are insecure and thus frowned upon. There is only action and inaction. Perception is biased and easily manipulated. Insecure in that those minds do not cling to a set of "truths" as if they were true simply because an authoritative voice emulated the correct answer to be mindlessly muttered and thus those that are insecure are potentially able to free themselves from the collective ties of the society that binds their mind. Is a man evil because he does an act perceived as evil? Is a man good because he does an act that is perceived as good? What is the motive behind the act and does that matter? How does the man perceive the act himself? Does it matter how good a man perceives the act he has done if those affected or witness to the act can not perceive it in the same manner? Pleasure, joy, love... fear, anger, hatred... emotions cloud the mind as they are attached to preconceived notions of what is, what should be, what will be, and what was. In the end, what matters most? How you are perceived by yourself or others... which one matters most? I find it simpler to simply try to fully experience what it is to "be" and in being to try to see how the mind, emotions, trains of thought run rampantly this way or that while simply observing what triggers this or that within and in this way perhaps gaining some insight into what truly is or is not real within. Perhaps, what we should really be asking is what is real and objective and still, I think we will end in hours of debate. Is it the watcher that sits quietly in his or her corner watching sensations unfold into the reality we see and hear? Is it the reality as perceived by the majority which changes with the time one lives in or the place one happens to inhabit? For me, there is love and there is fear. There is pain and there is pleasure. There is consciousness and unconsciousness. There is contentment with simply being and existing. Anything that promotes love and pleasure with the least amount of fear and pain is to be desired. Anything that promotes consciousness is to be desired in as much as it is desirable to have consciousness excepting of course when pain and fear a re at such levels that consciousness of it would make life unbearable at that moment and for that time. There is perceived control, control, and lack of control. Where I have control perceived or otherwise I tend to generally feel better. When I feel out of control or not able to control a given situation or personal expression within that and find myself simply reacting or being pushed along... then I may experience fear or a manifestation of fear such as anger, resentment, etc. if I am unable to let go. Control, real or imagined.... how does this affect our lives when we perceive it as being within our grasp or completely outside of our grasp? In relinquishing ones control does one gain control? Subjective or objective... what matters? To me, it all depends on where I'm at. Now that I'm sufficiently muddled and completely indecisive on this issue what is there to be afraid of? I fear, I may never know the answer to this question, yet I still find myself trying to debase myself to feelings of love and awareness thereof as other options such as wallowing in fear, self pity, anger, etc. while they do exist for me... are not where I wish for the majority of my time to be spent. Does this make me evil or good? I guess that depends on whether you believe in a heaven or hell. I suspect it is safer not to believe in a hell, but if it isn't... it surely is less depressing than thinking of so many different religions and sects thereof all going to hell save the one true righteous one who happened to just happen to get things right. How many wars have been enacted in the name of religion? How many wars can be considered evil or unjust? Which side of the propaganda do you choose to believe? How many wars have been started in the guise of something holy or just when in fact money or gain was the principle reason hidden from the masses? Is war then inherently evil or are just some wars evil? Is killing someone good and noble sometimes, but not always? Is ignorance any reason or justification to ones well being when one finds that they may have killed or maimed someone who is innocent. Does the end in fact, justify the means? Who's end is more important? Your end, my end, the wealthy, the poor, and why are the rich so few and the poor so grand in number? Surely the poor must deserve to be poor and the wealthy must surely be entitled to their riches due to their superior intellect and such. Or perhaps in the selling of what is right and what is wrong and judiciously applying praise on those who think not and agree more..... Enough of my rambling.

[Legba]

Good and Evil

"In pure esotericism, good is all that is in its place; bad is all that is out of its place. Likewise, fire in the kitchen, when in its place, besides being useful, is good. Yet, the fire out of its place, burning the furniture of the living room, would be bad and harmful. Thus, any virtue, no matter how holy it might be, is good in its place; yet, it is bad and harmful out of its place. We can harm others with our virtues. Therefore, it is indispensable to place virtues in their corresponding place. What would you say about a priest who preaches the Word of the Lord inside a brothel? What would you say about a meek and tolerant male who blesses a gang of assailants attempting to rape his wife and daughters? What would you say about that type of tolerance taken to such an extreme? What would you say about the charitable attitude of a man who, instead of taking food home, shares his money among beggars who have a vice? What would be your opinion of a helpful man who in a given moment lends a dagger to a murderer? Remember, dear reader, that crime also hides within the rhythm of poetry. There is much virtue in the perverse one and as much evil in the virtuous one. Even though it may appear incredible, crime also hides in the very perfume of prayer." - Revolutionary Psychology

[nabraxas]

Brahman alone is real, and everything else is illusion or a dream of Brahman.

Anyone who knows Brahman recognizes that there is no good or evil and this world we live in is merely an illusion signifying nothing.

cherry picked from:

http://www.nasamike.com/main/book/5h.htm

Edited January 26, 2009 by nabraxas

[Chiral]

its more like right and wrong

you know in your mind when you are doing something wrong..you allways get that little warning and slight amount of guilt

The odd thing about that is when you do something right there usually isn't any kind of speak from the mind...just a small sense of satisfaction.

H.

[drugo]

I like to see good and evil as linguistic objects representing energy. However, given that they are just symbols, it seems that they also reduce the understanding of energy (more specifically, human experince), resulting in neat little manageble, effecient categories. Highly reductive, reducing understandings of complex flows of eternal energy into simple definitions, which in turn corrupt the understanding of the flow of energy. PLus it becomes increasingly problematic when agenda comes into play; moral codes, sanctions, laws, limits. Good evil binaries have supported and continue to support some of the worst atrocities of humanity. Genocide, death, pain and absolute misery. Resting on a reductive binary foundation. good - evil, white - black, rich - poor, us them, me-it, better me- not me. I'm attempting to dissolve this ego illusion into the greater imaginary oceans of eternity, childhood innocence, creativity and love.

Do you cats now any tricks in heading down this journey? i have a feeling that ultimately we are all personally our own best teachers.

Point but don't preach, or something like that.

Love.

Edited January 26, 2009 by mooksha

[Undergrounder]

no such thing as good and evil, only relative to one's place or expectations in society or moral culture. Society, morality and culture are all transient and different, so no such thing as 'good' and 'evil'.

From a psychology perspective, i don't believe people are born with an innate characteristic of being 'evil', it is just the name a naive society uses to describe a whole catch-all of circumstances and psychology that makes a person tend to do things that a society doesn't like in certain situations.

[mutant]

Well, I changed my mind.... These damn glochids are evil man!

[Neoshaman]

There is no good or evil but thinking makes it so.

[The Dude]

There is no good or evil but thinking makes it so.

There's no such thing as hell, but you can make it if you try - bad religion lyric