Obama or McCain?

[devance]

MindExpansion

'I think i nkowo wants this is'The conference, called Love Won Out, is being organized by James Dobson's conservative Christian organization Focus on the Family. The group says they help people overcome unwanted same-sex attractions through religious means, including group discussions, counseling, Bible reading and prayer.

I find it disgusting to see something like this in this day and age. I don't know what it is that makes those religious fools think they are so superior but they need a good touch of reality.'

--------------------------------------------

Reality might be beyond, rock songs or even a university education.

I was a atheist at one time .

-------------------------------------------------

So you must teach on the area of genitials as reality.

[atheist]

Pussy and dick.

'but they need a good touch of reality.'

But not by you, I bet.

Hurray for MindExpansion.

He will teach us and rescue us from primitive ideas of life after death.

I hope thats all.

[MindExpansion]

My idea of life and death is that death will bring a state equal to that before life.

Anyone who uses their religion to justify supremecy or righteousness is a cause of more problems than they will ever solve.

What right do they have to say homosexuality is wrong, I'm happy for you base your idea of homosexuality on your beliefs, but you do not need to then go and act on that idea as if your view is the only true view. So as far as many crhistians are concerned, homosexuality is wrong. If they held that view to themselves, didn't go out spreading that message as fact or truth, then fine, no worries, everyone can have their opinions, but when they do start going out and presenting that personal view as truth or fact, which all too often they do, then they cross the line, because at that point they are making the assertion that their religious beliefs give rise to truths, which they do not, they only give rise to other opinions.

It is the feeling of righteousness and supremecy which religion often gives that is the downfall of the whole idea of religion, because it leads to arguments, fighting, war and other non-benificial acts (such as publicly calling homosexuallity wrong or making it out to be something that needs 'curing') all in the name of one god or another, because to each believer, their god is THE god, and the beliefs dictated by their religion are THE beliefs. So my opinion of religion is that because all too often people cannot keep their religious beliefs to themselves more trouble comes from the existance of religion, than would come if no religion existed in the world.

I do not mean to offend you, you are obviously religious, and like i have said of your beliefs, I am allowed to hold mine, but when your beliefs start being the basis of your actions and a source of a feeling of supremecy and righteousness, and when those actions effect someone in a non-benificial way, like when religions go to war with one another, or when you make a homosexual man feel so bad, so sick and so wrong that he kills himself, it is at that point that you have crossed the line.

Peace,

Mind

Edited September 8, 2008 by MindExpansion

[baphomet]

So as far as many crhistians are concerned, homosexuality is wrong. What right do they have to say homosexuality is wrong, I'm happy for you base your idea of homosexuality on your beliefs.

You wanna know how to fuck up one of these idiots? Ask them when Jesus ever said ANYTHING about homosexuality? He didn't!!!! They have the whole world believing that Jesus was against homosexuality when he wasn't! I guess no one bothers to actually read the bible to verify their claims or asks them to quote scripture, they just assume that these fundys must know best cause they read the bible a lot. The only part of that book that says anything about homosexuality is the old testament (the torah) which is the most holy book of the JEWS and without doubt one of the most disgusting books ever written, rivaling the koran and hadith for its pure depravity. Nowhere does Jesus actually feature in this book and people who believe this shit are more Jews than christians IMO cause it directly contradicts the new testament.

[chilli]

MindExpansion, I think your statement "it is the feeling of righteousness and supremecy which religion often gives that is the downfall of the whole idea of religion, because it leads to arguments, fighting, war and other non-benificial acts" shows a fairly facile view of religion.

Religious beliefs also seem to sometimes give people a sense of humilty and not being better than anyone else, and lead them to be pacifists and peacemakers and selflessly spend their lives helping others altruistically.

Likewise, there are atheists who think they are superior to others and use their beliefs as a way of expressing this attitude, and militantly act on their beliefs. There are also atheists who are peaceable and tolerant and see atheism through this lens and live out the same belief in a different way.

I think the sense of superiority and concomitant kinds of behavior you refer to could easily be found in any number of people from any number of groups from any number of parts of the world, because it is a problem of the human condition, not any one belief system.

________________________

The only part of that book that says anything about homosexuality is the old testament

Actually, the New Testament also mentions homosexuality in the letters if Paul.

_________________________

Okay back on topic (kinda):

Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They're

nothing but hideous space reptiles! {unmasks them}

{audience gasps in terror}

Kodos: It's true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about

it? It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.

{murmurs}

Man1: He's right, this is a two-party system.

Man2: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.

Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away!

{Kang and Kodos laugh out loud}

Edited September 8, 2008 by Sublime Crime

[baphomet]

Actually, the New Testament also mentions homosexuality in the letters if Paul.

Some translate it that way, others don't but what's it matter? Those letters are fake anyway!. I shouldn't have been so general, I just meant that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality contrary to popular belief.

Edited September 8, 2008 by baphomet

[MindExpansion]

I think the sense of superiority and concomitant kinds of behavior you refer to could easily be found in any number of people from any number of groups from any number of parts of the world, because it is a problem of the human condition, not any one belief system.

I agree to an extent. But what I feel, is that intrinsically attached to religious belief, is the feeling of righteousness. Religious people all feel that their beliefs are the right beliefs, because that is the nature of religion, it is the following of ONE belief system, and once you believe it enough, you feel it is the only RIGHT belief system, what I mean is, a Christian will look down their nose at a Muslim, whether it is open and blatant, or subtle, but they do feel superior because in their eyes they follow the RIGHT belief system. Whether this supremecy manifests in negative ways such as imposing ones views on others, fighting, war etc, or other ways is more up to the individual. So a believer might be happy to just keep their beliefs and let others hold their wrong beliefs. Or they might feel like going out (as happened during the colonial era when colonising Africa occurred) and spreading their good belief, to save the non-believers from their sinful beliefs. Or they might go out and help other humans, because that is a part of the moral code of many religions, and also of human beings period (atheists can help people too, so no religion is the not the basis of morality before someone mentions it).

So yes, not all act out their feelings of supremecy/righteousness, and some act on them in ways that benifit others. As far as giving a sense of humility is concerned, I don't think this is often a result of religious belief. Humility may have been an intrinsic part of an individual's person, and also it may develop. But the role religion plays in this is two fold, because while it may lead people to admit more faults, based on beliefs of forgiveness etc., it also often leads to the sense of righteousness and supremecy I mentioned before.

But the whole religion issue is always a topic that is subject to great personal variations in opinion, and while I enjoy discussing it, it is getting this thread off toic

I like your Simpsons analogy SC. But as I've said before, I don't feel that it doesn't matter who is in power of the US. I think it has international consequences, and I think that it does make a difference which one is in power, even if not a huge difference.

Peace,

Mind

[devance]

Good luck.

'I think the sense of superiority and concomitant kinds of behavior you refer to could easily be found in any number of people from any number of groups from any number of parts of the world, because it is a problem of the human condition, not any one belief system.'

------------------------------------------------

Scientology.

A cult.

'Actually, the New Testament also mentions homosexuality in the letters if Paul.'

Only for you.

I wonder why?

A destruction of logic, language, political systems, and economic systems and biological.

Give it a try.

[MindExpansion]

Sorry to say it but I don't think anyone who believes in any religion can call any other group a cult without being hypocritical.

Peace

[Legba]

Only that person is worthy to be a follower of any religion who, although he remembers the wrong done to him by someone, will not manifest any evil toward that person. Both candidates probably fail here but as Kodos mentioned: It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.

[chilli]

...whether it is open and blatant, or subtle... they do feel superior because in their eyes they follow the RIGHT belief system

Yes, but it is exactly this attitude that I see as a predicament of unexamined human nature, we all generally believe we have the right belief system, that is why we believe it. Obviously, this is a generalization, but no more than to say believers of ... religion consider themselves to be right, however subtly. Once you get that subtle, it is just the human condition.

I feel bad for continuing this off topic as well, but apparently I can't help myself.

[MindExpansion]

Yeh actually you're right on that one. I mean, atheists think their belief is right to the same extent as muslims or christians or jews or scientologists etc etc. so that is fair enough.

I suppose, to try and link all of this back to the topic, what I don't want is some extremist (and as a creationist she is at the extreme end of her belief system) in power in a powerful country. Nor do I appreciate religious organisations presenting their beliefs as facts. At least atheists try and use science, religious peoples treat their religion as fact, which it most certainly is not and then they impose behavioural guidelines based on these facts, like no abortions, no gays etc etc. I'm not a fan of that sort of discriminatory bigitory. And they also dispute things like evolution (in the case of creationists) with no evidence but the words in a book written by a number of people at various points in time and compiled somewhere along the line. To each their own, but in that lies the point, keep it your own, and don't impose rules on people who don't hold your beliefs unless you have a better reason for doing so than the words in a book (For example, I can tell a criminal that stealing is wrong, because it is bad for other people, but to tell a homosexual that he is sick, well he's not hurting anyone so leave him be, abortion being a grey area but I'm pro choice and that is a discussion for a whole 'nother day).

Peace,

Mind

[Ace]

Was going to start a new thread but figured this one would be suitable:

http://iftheworldcouldvote.com/

Quite an interesting poll between Obama and McCain which illustrates all countries' (that have voted) views on the next person in the top office.

Not that I have paid a whole lot of attention to the campaigns or really care what happens (I mean they're only going to replace a dick with a dick), I though some might find this interesting. Oh and I'd prefer Obama over that trigger happy bumpkin McCain anyday (seems most of the world does too).

[devance]

Perhaps a break down in culture that only liberal arts major can cure or complain about

Liberal arts majors are not hireable [ who I like]because of the habit of parroting read classic that know one has read or even cares to.

So the sad day of being a clerk in a social welfare office.

Thats if lucky, a liberal arts degree can give a assurance of caring so might be hired.

As many past [vietnam era]black students took black studys course and got a degree in the history and culture for U.S black culture.

But no good for getting a paycheck

With the economic meltdown, not a usuable skill and not likely to change for another 15 years even if Ophrey was president..

[devance]

Well more to the point.

McCain is insulting with the, Joe the Plumber, which as a political connective punctured all 4 tires [car] on my vague interest in politics and him.

But smarter people than me like him.

Their opinions are better informed than mine I think.

On the other hand I like Obama.

So either way good for me.

[Legba]

Wake Up America!

[nabraxas]

http://thisfuckingelection.com/

Edited November 4, 2008 by nabraxas

[Genesis]

Well it looks like Obama won... Kicked some serious arse. Fucking hope he can pull America together...

Good on him,

Gen

[DreamingNagual]

Let the slide into SERIOUS Novelty Begin

Edited November 5, 2008 by DreamingNagual

[rahli]

Alex Grey