Muscimol warning

[Nobun]

Mmmmmmh Sounds good bro'

I have few fresh ones picked last weekend' in the fridge' have had no time to work with them as of yet' shall def try though'

You can smoke them with your favourit bud' but the effect is very mild' and somewhat harsh'

Also a small amount beofre bed' shall give you a good nites sleep' and awake refreshed' has anti-depressant qualities'

I love the body strenght these ladies can bring' she also works as a pain killer' in small doses'

Very under-rated shroom indeed'

I ate loads of them whilst detoxing off "Scag n' Methadone" along with Iboga' as of when I could eat no more woods' Very synergistic=)))

Bliss

Nobunoni +

[Nobun]

Duplicate post

Edited September 4, 2008 by Nobun

[Nobun]

Duplicate post

Edited September 4, 2008 by Nobun

[ballzac]

OK I am game' as of when they come up in Oz' or Nz' send em to me' I shall process and eat them' and tell you of what I find'

I know you're probably just kidding, but in case you didn't notice Torsten's post, they are illegal here. Best not to suggest people break the law. Seriously though, I guess someone could send you spores. Do the spores contain any prohibited substances? You could cultivate them and if there was no difference it would rule out genetics as a factor. Also, sorry to be pedantic, but it's ibotenic acid, not ibotic acid .

Someone once offered a friend of mine some capsules filled with dried Aminita. My friend asked if the had been heat treated and the guy said, "No," and that they had been dried in the refrigerator. The guy said that he had used them plenty of times and never gotten sick but always tripped. My friend put his trust in this guy even though it seemed to contradict a lot of what he had read, and tried some capsules. He got no effect. He tried several more times with increasing doses and still got no effect. Apparently the capsules were about a year old, and my friend was told that they may have lost their potency. This could be explained if the muscimol conversion had taken place, and the muscimol degraded over the course of the year. I'm just wondering if this is possible at low temperature. How was this guy not getting sick from these if the conversion had not taken place?

[Undergrounder]

if they're only in capsules there wouldn't be very much to get sick on?

if you heat them too much, ie: boil them, you kill the muscimol, so maybe if he tried the muscimol conversion, but over did it, he just got edible A. muscarias w/ no effect or sickness.

nobun: im not sure if you can even grow the A. muscaria mycelium in jars can you? I thought the pine tree relationship thing was required even to grow the mycelium.. but i could be worng

[Torsten]

amanitas are legal in NZ as far as I know, and since NZ and Oz amanitas appear to be lumped into the same 'toxic' category by some, then disproving this with NZ amanitas would be a good first step.

the australian scheduling is about muscimole, so sending spores should be fine. sending ibotanic acid is probably fine too ;)

[alkatrope]

Are you kidding?

Amanitas are illegal?!

Oz is the only nation in the world I've ever heard of that made Amanitas illegal.

Why don't you just tell us when stuff ISN'T illegal in Oz?

I can't remember why but Oz's Amanitas are KNOWN to be different from ones in other parts of the world and are KNOWN to do little more than make you sick!

FOAF never had any nausea problems upon ingestion when he was in NZ.

[Nobun]

The process of conversion of Ibotenic acid to Muscimol is called decarboxylation'

It takes place at temps of 170-200 F

Whn I was in Germany a few years ago' you could purchase small bottles of Ibotenic acid' you just poored it in a spoon and heated it with your lighter' as per instructions on th bottle' powerful stuff =)))

I shall check on this spoor thing in a jar'

WARNING: Do not consume any carbonated beverage, (beer, soda, etc.) before

or after consuming the dried Amanita Muscaria. It appears that Muscimol can be

reconverted into Ibotenic Acid in the presence of carbonated water. This reverses

the effects of drying where Ibotenic Acid loses CO2 and becomes Muscimol. The

resulting effect being similar to fresh Amanita Muscaria ingestion nausea,

vomiting, stomach cramps, stupor, coma like sleep, excess salivation and no

hallucinogenic effect!

Here are some links to this shroom'

A timelaps video=

Then there is this e-book' I would ignore all the religious stuff and go to the end of the e-book iof where it tells you of how to grow the mycila and also make some kind of wine'

http://www.ambrosiasociety.org/download.html

Ez

Nobunoni +

[lampy]

It appears that Muscimol can be

reconverted into Ibotenic Acid in the presence of carbonated water. This reverses

the effects of drying where Ibotenic Acid loses CO2 and becomes Muscimol

Interesting!

This could be why i got quite sick off amanitas a few years ago when i was in the UK. I bought them already converted and ate them while consuming copious amounts of very carbonated lager.

Defiantly felt like ibotenic acid poisoning

[MindExpansion]

So is ibotenic acid available here, T you suggested sending it would be ok, does that mean it's not scheduled.

Peace,

Mind

[mutant]

Maybe people want to also question if the fullest transformation of IBO acid to muscimole is done by sun drying instead of oven [heat] drying - then of course, if one was to consume the material, where legal, the tea would provide a final additional heat to the preperation.

I am pretty convinced that this is the case since a very knowledgeable guy from e-dot [stephen peele, a mycologist] suggested that the decarboxylation is more complete when sun drying the material and/or exposing to UV light.

I have never experienced nausea from greek picked amanita muscaria and amanita pantherina. It's so frustrating that so many people keep replicating the same old mistakes and misinformations.... Another thing that people might want to consider is that in some regions Amanita muscaria might contain little more muscarine , still too little to pose a real threat, but maybe enough to cause oversalivation, muscle twitches etc.

[ballzac]

So is ibotenic acid available here, T you suggested sending it would be ok, does that mean it's not scheduled.

Peace,

Mind

I'm curious about this too, because I would have guess it would be considered a precursor or something, but don't know much about the law.

UG, the guy who gave the capsules to my friend seemed very knowledgable on ethnobotany, so my friend felt pretty confident that this must be a legitimate method of ingestion. He was told to have upwards of half a dozen 000 capsules, and ended up having about twenty in one go the final time before giving up. Like I said, I think they were just stale. Still not sure how this guy was tripping and not getting sick off them if he only dried them in the refrigerator.

[Torsten]

from memory I don't think ibotenic acid is scheduled in oz, but it might be an analog [can't remember which act, so don't know if analog applies].

ibotenic acid is expensive though and not easy to source.

[Conan Troutman]

from memory I don't think ibotenic acid is scheduled in oz, but it might be an analog [can't remember which act, so don't know if analog applies].

ibotenic acid is expensive though and not easy to source.

would likely be illegal in most states now under the new laws, no?

[Torsten]

what new laws?

[Undergrounder]

I just saw a journal article that mentioned in a mass pectographty analysis, caps and spores of A. muscaria had approximately 0.010% Ibotenic acid in fresh caps. Surprisingly (or not), Muscimol was not detected in fresh caps at all. From this point alone, anyone eating air-dried or fresh Amanitas should be considered officially dumb, gullible, or american.

but on the little bit of research i just did, extracting Ibotenic acid from A.muscaria should be pretty easy, ie: blend it and stand it in water, then if you want to break the law, boil it slightly also.

but yeah i don't know about the definition of -precursor-, and under any interpretation of the word you'd have to say that ibotenic acid is a precursor to muscimol, ie: "a compound that is required in the synthetic or extraction processes of drug production". I wouldn't risk it, you could probably be charged even if it would be a hard case to make?

(definition from http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/...ursor+chemical)

(amanita link at http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...amp;aid=248683)

[Garbage]

Who hasn't struggled with a rising gorge!

[Conan Troutman]

why wouldnt this fall into the precursor laws?

[John_Barleycorn]

if you heat them too much, ie: boil them, you kill the muscimol ... Surprisingly (or not), Muscimol was not detected in fresh caps at all. From this point alone, anyone eating air-dried or fresh Amanitas should be considered officially dumb, gullible, or american.

As mutant mentioned, any drying may be enough to effect decarboxylation. It doesn't seem to work with MJ, but it could with flys. However, you then run straight into the potency deterioration issue, which I can verify is substantial with both Sth Aus and NSW specimens. Possibly because of enol-ketone tautomerism, but another consideration IIRC is that muscimol is a liquid at room temperature, so how much can be expected to remain in dried shrooms? You don't necessarily have to boil a substance to evaporate it.

Incidentally, the shrooms can handle at least a half hour's vigorous boil without loss of potency (an over-cranked oven could be a different matter). My experience is that boiling still doesn't cure the queasies with Aus shrooms, and so preparation and ibotenic acid probably can't be blamed alone. Maybe some other alkaloids, maybe something in the fibre ... I said quite a bit about this on EBA. Too bad those comments have been lost. It was interesting to see someone recommending skinning the caps to reduce the nausea; I have often read (without actually testing it) that that was where most of the action is.

[Conan Troutman]

As mutant mentioned, any drying may be enough to effect decarboxylation. It doesn't seem to work with MJ, but it could with flys. However, you then run straight into the potency deterioration issue, which I can verify is substantial with both Sth Aus and NSW specimens. Possibly because of enol-ketone tautomerism, but another consideration IIRC is that muscimol is a liquid at room temperature, so how much can be expected to remain in dried shrooms? You don't necessarily have to boil a substance to evaporate it.

Incidentally, the shrooms can handle at least a half hour's vigorous boil without loss of potency (an over-cranked oven could be a different matter). My experience is that boiling still doesn't cure the queasies with Aus shrooms, and so preparation and ibotenic acid probably can't be blamed alone. Maybe some other alkaloids, maybe something in the fibre ... I said quite a bit about this on EBA. Too bad those comments have been lost. It was interesting to see someone recommending skinning the caps to reduce the nausea; I have often read (without actually testing it) that that was where most of the action is.

has anyone had success with drying then boiling? surely this would maximise decarboxylation

[Torsten]

why wouldnt this fall into the precursor laws?

which ones? only the customs act has a provision for unnamed single step precursors. all other acts list the precursors by name. I am pretty sure ibotenic acid wasn't listed in any of these.

I just can't remember where I saw muscimole.

[Undergrounder]

Muscimol is listed on Schedule 1 i think. If that's what you mean by muscimole.

[Torsten]

what act?

[WoodDragon]

I note that hydrolytic decarboxylation is enhanced at low pH. Would adding citrate to a boil, or even vinegar, reduce the proportion of remaining ibotenic acid, or would this exacerbate the decomposition of muscimol as well?

Please note that I explicitely do not recommend that anyone try, or rely, on the content in the above paragraph, and that I only ask from theoretical curiosity!

[Undergrounder]

what act?

oops i saw it in the ACT schedule... NSW doesn't seem to have it...

hmmmmmmmmm

In fact ACT seems to be the only one with it listed?

i swore i saw it on the NSW schedule.

*This message will self-destruct in 24 hours*

Edited September 10, 2008 by Undergrounder