mass seed propigation

[Osprey]

I'm trying to come up with a fairly easy method of sowing large amounts of cacti seed(500-1000 of one type at once).

I searched on the search engine for a LONG time yesterday and the closest I could get was Rev's seed tek (excellent!)and him saying"This is a good tek for small amounts of seed,For large amounts try Teo's or Gomao's method".

I can't find those teks.(believe me I looked diligently)

Can someone give me a link or advice please?

I've tried just scattering in large propigation trays with a plastic humidity dome over it,but they don't seal well, and I end up with tons of mold and algae in the flat.

Rev said when the tray is still steaming from the micro,you can douse it with Mancozeb before sowing the seeds.Could that adversly affect the seeds?

I suppose I could just wrap the flat with plastic wrap to make it seal better.

I have many thousands of seeds to sow,and little containers are too fiddly.

The reason I am planting so many is the hope of finding some special ones in the bunch.

[Teotzlcoatl]

I guess your looking for monstrose and varigated cacti and such?

Ever thought of increasing mutations using radioation or other methods?

[blangschpeer]

Mancozeb shouldn't be too bad for the germ rate, if mould is your worst enemy try to keep it as bright as possible for as long as possible. Once most of them have germinated you can reduce the light a little to prevent them being burnt to a crisp

[recondite]

If I was gonna go bigger than the chinese food containers that I usually use. I would look into the rubbermaid bins that are made to fit under a bed and some automotive stuff called "collision wrap" for the lid. It is basically saran wrap with a really strong adhesive on one side. Body shops use it for covering broken windows/windshields. It's available up to 24" wide, and one roll would last you for a while.

Edited July 28, 2008 by recondite

[Osprey]

Maybe one problem is that I have been punching holes in the bottom of the flats and takeaway containers for the water to drain out.

Perhaps that isn't needed.

The other problem area is the "soil mix"I use is probably too way rich

I don't really want it devoid of nutients, because I don't want to pot them on for a year or two and i feel like just sand or something would slow thier development.

how about this:

1.Nuke wet* "dirt" and put in full sized flat while still steaming.

2.Douse with Mancozeb while still hot

3.scatter 500-1000 seeds on top

4.put clear propigation dome on top and wrap with cellophane

5.Once seeds are germinating,get rid of the cellophane

Wet dirt,I suppose would be wet enough that if you sqeeze a handfull of it ,some drops would come out

The biggest question for me is the dirt components.I've been just using my regular mix(potting soil,pumice,aged cow manure,lime,gardensoil,sand) put through a screen.

Perhaps I could use that,but cut 50% with sharp coarse sand.

It seems like at some point,I would need to put holes in the flat

It can't be a good thing for germinating seeds to have to come up through solid mold and algae

Edited July 29, 2008 by Osprey

[recondite]

You need to have holes in the bottom of whatever you are using if you plan on having them in there longer than just germinating them. You need drainage and to be able to bottom water. What I do is burn a lot of holes with a soldering iron, in straight lines, from the inside of the container so the plastic wisps are touching the soil. Bottom water to field capacity and let drain for a while. Electrical tape over the holes that you made in a straight line, from the outside of the container, sow seeds, and seal. Leave them sit for a few months, gradually punch some holes in the top until you can see the soil dry out, remove the tape, start bottom watering and remove the top.

In regards to a fungicide or a microwave, I've never used them for soil. Only H2O2 after the container was opened. I've used a PC on a few batches of soil when I was having problems. The soil mix that I use is pretty simple. The majority of it is MG or Schultz cacti/succulent mix screened through 1/4" screen mixed 1:1 with coir for the bottom. The top 1/4" or so is 100% Schultz or MG cacti soil screened through 1/4" then finally through a fine window screen.

Edited July 29, 2008 by recondite

[Osprey]

Well, after a couple days of research and some reflection, I'm starting to think that sowing large amounts of seed in a single container is'nt a good idea."All your eggs in one basket"

multiple small containers provide more protection from losing all of them to some pathogen.

Another intriguing idea someone said they have good success with is spraying the trays with a dilute mixture of h202 and water to combat mold and algae.

He said he sterilizes the soil and sprays it on before and after sowing,then periodicaly as needed to combat mold and algae.a couple capfulls per quart spray bottle.

This seems like a nice low cost-non poisinous alternative to fungicide.

[Undergrounder]

Osprey - im a newbie to cactus seed growing, but i have four happy trays of little cacti at the moment and so i did at least something right:

1. Get sand, just sand... avoids mould, fungus gnats, and better drainage.

2. Get those little plastic takeaway containers if you like, but make sure they;re square. 6 of them just about fits a standard seedling tray, so that's useful to put them in one seedling tray so theyre not so fiddly. You could use a big tray if you like, i had no problem with mould, i didn't use fungacide, and IMO the H202 did not help much.

3. Punch holes in the bottom

4. Fill the bottom 1cm of the tray with a coarse material for drainage

5. Add the sand

6. Wet thouroughly, to saturation point

7. Sprinkle seeds on top

8. Mist, and close lids, leave closed until most of them have started to germinate.

9. Take off the lids and leave it nice and airy, but SPRAY LIBERALLY with a mister, don't be afraid to keep it wet as long as you keep the lids off.

From there just remember to keep them watered (with a mister!), you can't overwater seedlings, and add some very diltute fertiliser when they're big enough to resist algae. A little algae hasn't hurt my happy cacti.

I think what has worked for me was to forget the humidity, but to keep them well watered, and to use SAND (non-sifted).

Edit: I just remembered... the BEST big scale seed prop method is on the hotmail server here:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...st&p=159119

Edited July 30, 2008 by Undergrounder

[Osprey]

Thanks alot for that link undergrounder,it was very helpful.

[Jack]

You dont need to punch holes in the bottom, I have some arios, turbs and obregonias in containers for 13months and I have had no issues at all. In fact i did a test and removed half the arios and put them in seedling punnets after 6 months and the ones in the contianers are twice the size.

[Jack]

One other thing I use (yates brand i think?) seedling mix for germination and have had much better germination with this than any other mixes, cactus or otherwise.

Lastly works for me in my conditions will not necessarily work for you. You need to experiment and workout whats best for you, I would try different methods, but I would suggest if you are inexperienced that you do trials using smaller batches of seed as seed can get expensive and if you stuff up there goes a fair bit of $$ down the drain. My first attempt many years back at growing arios from seed planted 800 seeds and only have 1 remaining seedling from that batch now that was an expensive way to learn.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Jack