Acacia Phleophylla Seed Competition

[folias]

Well, it is not really a competition... I just want to find out who can grow these seeds, which I have had in my posession for five year years. I figure it now might be a good idea to get them out there, and hopefully in the ground and living.

I was kind of hoping someone would come along who could grow all of these seeds, but nobody has.

I am going to donate 10 seeds to Torsten, even though he and Darklight have in the past, apparently been too proud to ask me directly for fresh seed stock, when they have clearly needed some new seeds to carry on their tissue culture work!

So I have 50 seeds I am going to give away, in lots of 10. So that is five lots of seeds. The competition closes on the 10th of June.

To win, you would ideally live in Victoria, on a mountain at the altitude of Mt Bufallo, have extensive experience growing acacias and so on... as I know probably nobody will satisfy these ideal conditions, please tell me in 100 words or less why you should be the one to grow these seeds.

pm is best.

Also, I am putting 3 lots of 8 seeds on www.swapnsell.com.au, as I understand some people are too proud to enter competitions! You can only win one lot of seeds there as well.

Julian.

[incognito]

am going to donate 10 seeds to Torsten, even though he and Darklight have in the past, apparently been too proud to ask me directly for fresh seed stock, when they have clearly needed some new seeds to carry on their tissue culture work!

in my experience theyve had no troubles without ur seed!

bitchy bitchy!

[folias]

They could have asked me for some seed some six years ago (which I gladly offered for free to anyone who wanted some) and not gone through a whole lot of hassles it seems to me... it makes me wonder sometimes when people are too "ethical" and involved in their personal politic and viewpoint so strongly that they fail to take into account what may actually just be best for the work they are doing, and the plant involved.

(jono, I'm just giving some back to Torsten, as I know how he loves it so much!)

Julian.

[incognito]

get out of here, ur being a tart!

[Torsten]

hey folias, if you want to get at me then please get your facts straight first. I have continuously had seeds from 98 onwards. Only few at first, but quite a lot since 2002. So I am not sure what you are going on about.

'Ethno' and a couple of others [non-forum-members] in the community have donated large numbers [many hundreds] to myself and Darklight in those years, as well as me having collected a few myself [from specific trees]. About 2 years ago I shifted a lot of my seedbank around and while keeping a close eye on the special seeds, I misplaced the bulk of the 'average' seed. Darklight asked me for some more about that time and I wasn't able to give her any because I can't find them. I know about half a dozen people who have seeds and I didn't ask any of them either. In my mind it was more important to get my seedbank organised again and locate the original seeds than to source more.

Furthermore, Darklight and I have both encountered other people's mistakes in labelling and seed ID of various species which have in the past caused major losses and gross waste of time, and hence I would always prefer to use my own seed [either self collected or germination tested] for a long term project like TC than to use donated seeds.

I am not sure whether Darklight has sourced any seeds from elsewhere, but the only phleb seed I have received in the last few years was a donation of a few seeds [5?] from a generous forum member.

So yeah, no idea what you are going on about.

As for your seed offer, as I said, I still have plenty, but it is all collected from the one area. If you have any seed collected from other areas on the mountain then I would love to obtain some of that - regardless of my ethical issues with your actions on Mt Buffalo. My plants are doing well even though they are in the wrong climate and I think we've found just about all major reasons for sudden or timed death, so it would be nice to have an ex situ gene pool we can maintain and produce seed from - eventually.

[mu!]

I'm a stone's throw from Mt. Buffalo. I dont really live ON A MOUNTAIN though

I've grown A. obtusifolia from seed with success.

I've built up a fair idea of the things that plague these poor guys (eg, 3 year death syndrome).

There's plenty of acacias thriving in my area (longifolia, baileyana) so i have access to acacia soil.

If i run into any problems, there's an Acacia expert just 5 mins from me. i think he's president of some national gardenin association thing, cant remember

Plus, i wouldnt mind just havin a fair crack at gettin these things goin

[folias]

In my mind it was more important to get my seedbank organised again and locate the original seeds than to source more.

so you're saying you couldn't find your phleb seeds and wanted to find them, but couldn't.

I only know that darklight asked someone else to get seeds for her, and they asked me and I said to them, to tell darklight to ask me directly as she had been so rude in refuting my offer of "fresh genetic material" some years back. I put 1 and 4 together, and figured that you didn't have any seeds at the time. Seeing as darklight was doing tissue culture work with them, I would have thought that would have been a major priority for them, and if you had seeds at the time, you would have shared them with her for that! As it stands, you say they were lost at the time! Surely, fair enough then!

I just want people to know, that I am not anal-retentive and details like this don't stress me out, don't worry me in the slightest, don't cause me to lose sleep at night, don't make my life shorter... sometimes it is just fun for the sake of the old days, to have a go at Torsten in the same kind of way he has a go at others! or others have a go at him... whatever it is these days.

Probably my seeds are from same area of the mountain yours are from, and you have already have some, I'll just give to them to someone else who can grow them then!

I think we've found just about all major reasons for sudden or timed death, so it would be nice to have an ex situ gene pool we can maintain and produce seed from - eventually.

Feel free to share any of the reasons of sudden which people who are growing these trees may not be aware of...

Julian.

[Torsten]

so you're saying you couldn't find your phleb seeds and wanted to find them, but couldn't.

exactly. Still haven't found the bulk of them. But I kinda 'know' where they are. I have a collection of about 2500 species of seeds, and at about the 1000 mark I seriously lost track of some of them. Sorting them all out would take several days - which is why I haven't found them.

I only know that darklight asked someone else to get seeds for her

We did do a lot of work together a few years ago, but that was then. If you know somethign about darklight then don't automatically assume that I am involved.

I put 1 and 4 together, and figured that you didn't have any seeds at the time.

You were kinda right as my seed is not 'handy'. But that doesn't mean I actually wanted any seed. I was actually offered seed when I was in melbourne recently and also the year before - by the usual suspects - and I declined all of them.

I just want people to know, that I am not anal-retentive

LOL, you said it. Most other people probably wouldn't have even tried to tie the whole thing into some conspiracy

Probably my seeds are from same area of the mountain yours are from

Bummer. Did you ever collect seeds from the other areas you went to?

Feel free to share any of the reasons of sudden which people who are growing these trees may not be aware of...

I usually do - at the time I work them out.

The vertical root space thing seems to have been very important in regards to the 3 year death, but then again I have a plant that is 3 years old and still in a 1L pot and loving it. It is in a special climate though which changes everything [the seedling house]. But exceptions will always mess up good theories.

The last sudden death problem we experienced was that even well established plants can't handle wet clay in our summers. Death was swift in all 3 of them. The drought allowed them to thrive for 18 months or so, but the first good rains killed them. Clay + wet subtropics = death

I would like to see more people in cooler areas such as canberra get into this species. It does really well down there. I think anyone in the alpine region of NSW and Vic who has some experience with growing acacias from seed should get priority for any seed that is available. As long as the plant can be put into the ground within 6 months of germination, and will be supplied with water until established, the alpine area is by far the easiest place for good success.

[Darklight]

I put 1 and 4 together...

You know shit, as usual, and your maths is flawed. Is this some example of you making yourself feel important again by inventing and/or inflaming debate with people who don't like you? Or are you merely desperate for recognition now that phlebs mightn't be the highest yielding acacia in the public imagination?

A member here kindly offered me seeds a few years ago around the time when we had *lots* in culture . When I found out the seed was yours I refused it on the grounds that I don't take stuff from people I don't like and I consider your actions on the mountain to be extremely ethically suspect.

Subsequent to the discovery that the plants I had TC'd were not phlebs as the seed had been misidentified I stopped the TC work. The problems I had been having with the TC of phlebs are common to many of the Fabaceae I have worked with, though paradoxically not to any of the other acacias I have cloned. For the last few years I have regarded any seed that might wend it's way into my lab as doomed until this problem is solved- and for that reason may be better conventionally propagated.

The TC problem may not be insurmountable, but I am working on it with other, related species whose seed is more available and less endangered, and whose characteristic growth habits in TC reflect the problems I have had with the phlebs. I believe that to solve one may be to solve the other, and in the meantime I don't kill bucketloads of phleb seed. This is still happening despite the fact that I have other and more immediate demands on my time and funds, but it's not my first priority

If you have any more claims about my intentions you'd like to fabricate, keep them to yourself and don't parade them about in a desperate bid for attention. The chances of you actually being right can be measured accurately with lots of zeroes after the decimal point

[Darklight]

If this thread is truly about making an offer to the wider community, then get the spurious references to my alleged role in this out of it so I can delete my posts and let you get on with it.

Otherwise it looks like you grandstanding again. You've wasted more words on your vivid interpretations of other's actions than you've spent on the alleged purpose of the thread.

[folias]

Torsten,

I generally feel that these seeds should go to canberra and victoria people.... I just got a message from someone in the u.s. who has a seven year old phleb.... although it must be six and a bit, as I believe it is from seed I got to them.

Did you ever collect seeds from the other areas you went to?

I only found seeds the first time I went up there...

Is this some example of you making yourself feel important again by inventing and/or inflaming debate with people who don't like you?

damn... I thought I was feeling the love from you all that time!

Subsequent to the discovery that the plants I had TC'd were not phlebs as the seed had been misidentified I stopped the TC work.

Just think, if you had graciously accepted some generously donated seeds back in 2002, maybe, just maybe you would have had the right seeds and at the very least learnt some more things!

The point is, the seed has to come from phlebophylla populations at some point... that you didn't want it, just because it was from me, just seems a bit silly and I just wanted to make a point for the sake of understanding human behaviour in general, and maybe what we could all learn from this!

Or are you merely desperate for recognition now that phlebs mightn't be the highest yielding acacia in the public imagination?

Mulga used to say this too... "you are only communicating because you want attention."

Actually, I communicate because I enjoy it.

ah, actually, I noticed my seeds were starting to grow mould on them, and I figure it is better to get them in the ground asap and I've been holding out for someone who could grow all of them.... who never appeared!

Also, I have to say that the places you can reach with the DMT from phlebophylla are very, very different from that of other species... it is just very unique and distinctive and also a very valuable thing which I would hope that it would be possible for more people to experience in the coming years.

Julian.

[Torsten]

There is also a 9 or 10 year old plant in the US which is from mulga's or myco's seed. Similar climate conditions as vic/alpine though, so I think this should be the main focus.

[folias]

Okay, the competition has well and truly finished and the user names of the winners are.

Azure (ethnobotany australia)

obtuse (ethnobotany australia)

tonic (ethnobotany australia)

shruman (ethnobotany australia)

mu (shaman australis)

captain marshmallow (shaman australis)

All these people lives in quite coldish, mountainish climate apart from Tonic, who lives in coastal NSW... but I thought I would give him a go anyway as he seems passionate about it and it would be interesting to see how he goes. Everyone will get 8 seeds each, rather than 10 because of the "tonic" factor!

People who have won, please let me know your address and I can send the seeds next week!

Julian.