how can I tell if my kanna has finished its fermentation?

[XipeTotec]

been doing a jar for 6 days.... how do I know when it is ready to dry out?

[planthelper]

when the mixture stopped behaving "active", meaning no more froth is building up on the top, no more bubbles and so on.

if in doubt just leave a bit longer, but if it's summer where you live, 6 days should have been enough.

[XipeTotec]

when the mixture stopped behaving "active", meaning no more froth is building up on the top, no more bubbles and so on.

if in doubt just leave a bit longer, but if it's summer where you live, 6 days should have been enough.

hmmm, to be honest... i havnt really noticed any froth etc... this could be because I tend to shake the jar before I open it. The only thing I have noticed is a change in colour (dark green) and when hot, there tends to be gas when I open lid. It still has lots of solids (roots etc) which I was under the impression would go mushy. The smell is not something that I would describe as a "fermented smell", it smells sort of fresh. could it be that my efforts have been in vein?

[Conan Troutman]

hmmm, to be honest... i havnt really noticed any froth etc... this could be because I tend to shake the jar before I open it. The only thing I have noticed is a change in colour (dark green) and when hot, there tends to be gas when I open lid. It still has lots of solids (roots etc) which I was under the impression would go mushy. The smell is not something that I would describe as a "fermented smell", it smells sort of fresh. could it be that my efforts have been in vein?

I take it you UTSE?

Id say your close after 6 days in the sun and it not smelling 'cheesy'

also a HOT TIP...dry in oven, set at lowest with spoon in door to hold it open a crack...when dry remove brunt of the solids and scrape the xtal residue from the sides of the dish then bioassay separately

[XipeTotec]

I take it you UTSE?

Id say your close after 6 days in the sun and it not smelling 'cheesy'

also a HOT TIP...dry in oven, set at lowest with spoon in door to hold it open a crack...when dry remove brunt of the solids and scrape the xtal residue from the sides of the dish then bioassay separately

yeah... i have used the search engine on this quite a bit.... the closest I found to being able to tell if ready is a reference to, "after a while you just get a feel for it", so I thought I would clarify.is there a reason to oven dry as opposed to sun dry? as far as the trying out the residue seperately... I can only assume you are talking about the crystals...in which case... as many seem to think that they may be oxalic... i might leave that one for tantra or FM

[Conan Troutman]

yeah... i have used the search engine on this quite a bit.... the closest I found to being able to tell if ready is a reference to, "after a while you just get a feel for it", so I thought I would clarify.is there a reason to oven dry as opposed to sun dry? as far as the trying out the residue seperately... I can only assume you are talking about the crystals...in which case... as many seem to think that they may be oxalic... i might leave that one for tantra or FM

its not oxalic acid...no way that amount would escape the fermentation process ask PH...Sunlight=UV light and i dont trust it

[XipeTotec]

Sunlight=UV light and i dont trust it

why not?

[hebrew]

dont dry in oven - i was told by a xhosa initiate, it will make it taste bad, dry in the sun.

[XipeTotec]

i emptied onto a tray, roots do not seem to have broken down at all.... does this mean fermentation has not taken place?

[planthelper]

im sure fermentation took fully place.

the roots are very tough and fibrous, thats why they don't break down as well as the rest.

i sometimes removed most of the woody material after the fermentation took place as i don't believe the woody stuff contains many actives, but gee i could be wrong.

those x-talls which appear at various locations whilst you dry the material out, might be oxcalic, but all of them dissapear once the drying out process is completed.

my point about this x-talls is (and i think conan you excactly know what i mean, as you say bioessay seperately) that at those locations where they appear, they often appear together with a tough, resinous, deposite, which i believe consists of the most active material. in short, i believe some actives, naturally concentrate themselfes at those locations (often this happens at the rim which forms in your glassware). those specks are not powdery as the rest of the material, but even display a shine and very close grained surface, on the side which had been stuck to your glassware. it looks the same as paint looks, if you scrapped some off, a solid surface.

[XipeTotec]

ok, thanks for the advice guys... finished the drying now... (didnt notice any crystals), Will let u know how finished product goes.... hebrew... i went with oven dry, as it isnt too hot here today

[XipeTotec]

also... something dawned upon me a couple of days ago.... for constant heat for most of the day.... a car in the sun is tops!!

Also.... it tastes very salty.... i saw someone in another thread said material after extract was salty tasting (maybe a bit acidic... its hard to tell!! )

... how does oxalic taste (acidic i know)... could it be mistaken for salty?

Edited January 16, 2008 by XipeTotec

[XipeTotec]

also... something dawned upon me a couple of days ago.... for constant heat for most of the day.... a car in the sun is tops!!

Also.... it tastes very salty.... i saw someone in another thread said material after extract was salty tasting (maybe a bit acidic... its hard to tell!! )

... how does oxalic taste (acidic i know)... could it be mistaken for salty?

mr bump

[planthelper]

i don't know how oxcalic acid tastes, but my fermented scelly powder never tasted salty, so i guess your fermentation was not completed. i think you could add this material to a new batch and let it ferment a bit more, or heat treat it. what i mean with heat treatment is, copy the methode traditionell described by the hottentots, that is to put the whole plant material into, or close to the amber of a fire. i have never done this, but i guess, rewetting and placing the material in the stove should to the trick.

[Auxin]

Free oxalic acid sublimes (turns from solid to gas) at 150°C

Bad for ovens, relatively harmless to fire pit stones.

At risk of hijacking I noted that Delosperma bosseranum leaves have the saline oxalate flavor, it seems disputed just how effective D. boss. leaves are but if it were to be used would it be fermented in the same fashion? (ie has anyone actually done it and noted anything from the process?) I kinda screwed up and forgot to taste my D. boss. roots before sticking them in my pipe, is the consensus still that they have too low of oxalate content to bother with fermenting?

If none of that hijacked the thread this will It has been demonstrated that the mesembrinoid alkaloid profile of Sceletium spp. is altered in the process of fermentation, has anyone experimented to see if a Delosperma bosseranum (dried) + Sceletium tortuosum (fermented & dried) mix has the same or different properties than a mix of Delosperma bosseranum + Sceletium tortuosum where they were combined Prior to fermentation?

[t st tantra]

i've fermented whole flowering bosseranum,the fermentation was basically the same.

the effect is different though,hard to define,more stimulant,more psychedelic but mild and often showing best in combos.bosseranum + heimia acetone ext was an excellent moderate stimulant that i will attempt to reproduce in the future.

t s t .