DMT Possession and other dimension

[folias]

Mycot,

When I first started getting into Mushrooms about 8 years ago... I would regularly open myself up to other beings who would communicate through me... (the technical name is "trance channeling" and some people can do it open will and I have witnessed this as well)

they would talk about lots of things in a voice that was different from mine... I was still there to the point, I was able to listen... one prominent time they commented upon a book in my bookshelf!

Your experiences sound pretty normal to me... nothing to be concerned concerned about unless you are involuntarily possesed or the voices are telling you to do obviously immoral things to your pets.

The being is probably just your guide :-)

http://www.portraitcorner.co.uk/Articles/c...irit-guides.htm

Again, this is nothing that esoteric to my mind... even freakin Larry David gives some kind of humourous credence to the guide theory...

http://www.hbo.com/larrydavid/episode/season5/episode41.html

I've met a lot people who are in contact with their guides all the time... (being the open minded chap that I am :-)

There are heaps of books about it... racking it all up to new age wish fulfiment babble is not so easy if you are continually experiencing it... but also, test it out and challenge it out and prove it to yourself... if your imagination is able to tell you what horses win which race, then you have a very powerful imagination that should be fostered :-)

But also, its probably more relevant to the inner life and if you have this channel open, you are among the very few... as really not many do in this day and age...

Julian.

[nonovelties]

at first he thought it was an angel, but has since realised that it is in fact a higher aspect of himself that he his brain has managed to break through dimensions to reach.... IE his 12th dimensional aspect, and he has figured out how to literally open his mind!!!!

last thing....... he has been told he is not special. anyone can do this....

Truth has a resonant vibration - anyone else feel it here?

This kind of connection is happening to individuals at an exponentially increasing rate - right now

You can realize you multidimensionality simply by intending it, listening, researching (externally or internally)

We are all fragments of the oneness that is creation. We are not seperate from creation. We ARE creation/creators/DIVINE

If you are able to stop thinking you know everything, and that unless you can sense it with the 5 senses or reason it with your logic mind - you become unlimited

Go on, just entertain the idea - open your mind -

http://www.reconnections.net/Multidimensionality.htm

this is a good starting point - scour the website and pass it on! This site is just one of many,- this information is becoming more and more available

isn't skepticism boring?

[Ace]

isn't skepticism boring?

Not at all - skepticism is about searching for the truth (in concentual reality, not some imaginary/drug induced world). I think reality can be as much and even far more interesting than certain far fetched ideas (such as alien abductions/crop circles/alternate realities/spirits/etc). Each to his own I guess Dont get me wrong - some far fetched ideas can be absolutely fascinating (I've always loved reading up on the paranormal and other 'out there' ideas), but I find they are much more interesting when they are factual, real and tangible. There is so much yet to be discovered that is legitimate and can be seen/experienced by all - I find that so much more exciting than dreamed up ideas/notions.

I'd rather read 'Ripleys Believe it or Not!' and 'Guiness World Records' books than those on ghosts or spirits, simply because the stuff contained on the pages is legitimate and real. Those things happened and can happen again. Just my POV

[phloom]

interesting synchonicity that this is being discussed now, although my experience could be a subconsciously highlighted to me having read this.

I think there are some (personally subjective) key points I would like to add;

- free will must be conserved to some level. If this fails it all falls apart (I think).

- the geometry of higher dimensions links with this, when ones imagination allows it. Be careful of self-servicing belief structures.

- there are facts and there are theories, you use theories to find facts, some are stumbled upon.

- Its bigger than you think. Test your imagination.

- of course facts are made of language and all this is subject to change without notice ;P

I suppose we are all telling the story, each story affects others. Skepticism/accurate observation keeps the story believable; stops it falling apart.

[ajna]

skepticism is a healthy component of this kind of research, but some can take it too far. be skeptical enough to test your experiments thoroughly but not so much that you ignore results which may be contrary to your beliefs.

Ace, not having a go at ya but you don't seem overly open to some ideas. comments like 'some imaginary drug induced world' and 'far fetched alternate realities' implies that you see your version of reality as superior to that of others' in your peer group. maybe things didnt work out for you in these 'delusional landscapes' or something, but it doesn't mean everyone else who finds more is falling down the rabbit hole.

there are real and tangible spiritual experiences with and without drugs, they've happened to people for thousands of years and continue to do so. whether or not it's a part of the mind or an external force is irrelevant because they still happen and have an effect. and as folias said "if your imagination is able to tell you what horses win which race, then you have a very powerful imagination that should be fostered".

just because you haven't seen/experienced something doesn't mean it's a dreamed up notion, and if you must know more about it - see/experience it! of course you are entitled to any opinion you have, and this is just mine

[phloom]

Well said Ajna.

funny how that tends to be the general rule.....

that's why so many regular DMT users end up with some sort of god complex - it's just not healthy to be constantly reassured and approved of by imaginary beings!

And I think this a very important statement Torsten.

I myself struggle with belief vs reason, sometimes god complexes. I believe somehow that when we collectively as a race realise reality can be manipulated and even changed these two towers of thought can walk home together like lovers.

The most profound states ive experienced have been from going out on a limb psychologically; I have been burnt too. Something is left with me though, intangible but definitely real (at this point).

Dont despair about the skepticism.....i BELIEVE that in the end it will make your fantasy all the more real and incredible. After all computer games aren't much fun with the cheats IMO.

"REFINEMENT"

[The Dude]

Skepticism sucks the lifeforce away from the infinite possibilities. Skepticism is really an entrenched belief if you ask me. It is a faith in everyday reality being as un-mystified un-special and un-impossible as it is re-enforced to be.

By doubting something you are resonating stronger with your own beleif system. By doubting an alternative you reinforce your own belief structure moreso. The idea is that existence has infintie possibilities but is connected by some kind of 'order' defining the form of infinite variations - that is in itself chaos.

There are patterns, that we must deduce with our mind, there are methods to 'see' the order within chaos. Otherwise it's all a nonsensical existence. Skepticism is the counterbalance to novelty and change. It is the doubt that dissallows change sometimes. I'm of the thinking that this is always a collective experience, Magicians / Hypnotists / Performers especially those involved in NLP, mentalism and what can only be considered telepathy, are on the way to catalysing shifts in consciousness from fear based (skeptic) to love based (optimistic) where the love of it is what allows you progress or 'evolution'

Further 'miraculous' work I am unsure of the mechanics of. If some jesus figure fully believes in the word and authority of god being expressed through all of existence and therfore also through him, he would take this authority to heal others in PUBLIC displays for further [colletive] consciousness evolution - so they killed him... if he ever even existed. I believe in the power of trance states being able to dictate our illusory reality to us. It is a matter of consensus opinion.. or a collective trance. What frequency of consciousness we choose to reside in remains a choice, whether or not it is validated by the rest of those distracted by the trance of matereality. Maybe if the 'signal' is powerful enough it would transcend belief structures and provide tangible proof.

...I don't know I think that is the nature of the occult. It is forever hidden until your eyes are ready to see. This cannot be provable if you are unable to see it anyway. I'll leave you with a lyric "sometimes truth is stranger than fiction".

Edited November 21, 2007 by El Duderino

[ajna]

yeah i agree with u there el dude, skepticism can be inhibiting which is why i feel it needs to be used wisely. for example when you start getting telepathic messages from something claiming to be god, telling you to sacrifice your eldest son in order to save the world, it might pay to step back and consider this may not actually be a divine source hehe

and yeah Torsten's statement is very relevant. it may be that for anything to pass along 'psychic channels' it must pass through our own imagination, desires, beliefs before getting through. this could be where being free of desires comes in, to clear away that filter. next task is to be able to distinguish between your own imagination and something 'other'. i would say given the history of spiritual traditions belief in the devine may well be a filter but not one that negatively affects the message, just channels it and gives it form.

[chilli]

Skepticism sucks the lifeforce away from the infinite possibilities. Skepticism is really an entrenched belief if you ask me. It is a faith in everyday reality being as un-mystified un-special and un-impossible as it is re-enforced to be. By doubting something you are resonating stronger with your own beleif system. By doubting an alternative you reinforce your own belief structure moreso.

An honest and wise skeptic would doubt his own belief systems most of all.

catalysing shifts in consciousness from fear based (skeptic) to love based (optimistic) where the love of it is what allows you progress or 'evolution'

Didn't you watch Donnie Darko?

[No_One]

Seeing is Believing:Believing is Seeing

[The Dude]

An honest and wise skeptic would doubt his own belief systems most of all.

True. some major philosopher that i cannot remember said something along the lines of "every great seeker of truth must question the very reality before him, his own belief structures".

The mystical experience is real. ... trust me If it need to be through altered states that it is witnessed, to crack open the head so to speak, maybe that is what's needed. Ancient cultues had their initiation rites with entheogens, the next closest thing would be meditation or trance as many religions have, still nothing beats entheogens...

Point is I personally have witnessed strange phenomenon that my rational mind would later doubt, based on some kind of skepticism that I now see as nothing more than protecting my old world view, my grip on sanity as i then believed it should be. Skepticism in this instance was an oxymoronic bastard that meant nothing more than blind faith in my previous 'religion of rationality' and left me disbelieving what my direct perception was telling me. Later encounters with the 'other' have left me understanding that these synchronistic revelations of a holographic self reflective reality, are happening all the time, all existence is synchronistic clockwork run by a higher order that is pretty well hidden, but the game of connect the dots.. when i was a young lad, taught me that doing so can leave me with a picture I can better understand than random dots on a page.

Didn't you watch Donnie Darko?

True that lesson was infantile and stupid and he made his point that many more emotions are involved, however as new agey bullshit as this sounds... essentially all emotions can be sourced to either Fear or Love. Existence is a Dualistic system and these polarities mirror every other aspect of reality.

Edited November 21, 2007 by El Duderino

[Ace]

Well said Ajna, and I honestly didnt mean to come across as insulting (appologies to all! ).

The way I see it is that there are magicians and those watching them. The magician can do anything the mind can perceive, even though everyone knows his/her tricks are simply clever illusions. I feel that skepticism is kind of like trying to learn how the magician performs his tricks. The only downside is that once the tricks have been learnt, the magic is gone.

This is something I guess I have always tried to achieve - to discover how the magical and mystical side of life/the universe works and why it works (in what I would call 'real terms' - i.e. scientifically). For me, it isnt enough to sit in the crowd and stare in amazement, I need to discover what is behind the curtain or up the magicians sleeve, even if it means missing out on the magic (I still find the methods used just as interesting as the actual illusion).

At the same time, I guess the same can be said about those against skepticism. I'm sure there are a few people here on the same path (to see how things are done), but they probably decipher it in a different way, using different terms instead of sticking to a scientific sort of view point.

Anyway I'm not sure if this even makes sense, but I hope it helps to share my ideas about skepticism compared to the more 'paranormal' forms of reality. Sorry for taking things off topic

[chilli]

The mystical experience is real. ... trust me If it need to be through altered states that it is witnessed, to crack open the head so to speak, maybe that is what's needed. Ancient cultues had their initiation rites with entheogens, the next closest thing would be meditation or trance as many religions have, still nothing beats entheogens...

I agree that there is such a thing as real mystical experience, I don't think a belief in mysticism or a spiritual realm/other dimensions excludes a healthy skepticism. If anything, for me it encourages it. On a side note, the most powerful and meaningful mystical experiences I have had occurred without entheogens, usually during periods of prayer and fasting.

True that lesson was infantile and stupid and he made his point that many more emotions are involved, however as new agey bullshit as this sounds... essentially all emotions can be sourced to either Fear or Love. Existence is a Dualistic system and these polarities mirror every other aspect of reality.

I thought the exact point was that all human emotion cannot be reduced so simplisitically... anyway, I don't think I agree that existence is dualistic, especially with a capital D. The fear/love dualism just reminds me of Christians I used to know who believed that faith is the opposite of fear, and use it to support a positive thinking belief system, which I think is silly and doesn't take into account the richness of human experience.

[The Dude]

I agree that there is such a thing as real mystical experience, I don't think a belief in mysticism or a spiritual realm/other dimensions excludes a healthy skepticism. If anything, for me it encourages it.

True... Skepticism / Faith are two sides of the coin needed in matter construction. Faith and Dreams to imagine in the first place and skepticism to test the structural stability of said dreams. I just think that when skeptical rationality takes over the reigns, the real magic is missed.. ie the fact the real IS illusory, there is no distinction between real/illusion.

Derren Brown used to be my hero when he would crank these synchronistic telepathic connections, with multiple persons at the same time in a collective telepathic kind of "magic". Point is he really flipped peoples ideas of reality on their head, freaks them all out. True it could be staged but thats really really Really pointless as it casts further doubt when his stuff is debunked... and the whole purpose of this work is to entertain and enlighten... or at least keep us guessing, cuz reality is more fluid than many think. some tricks are easily explained as suggestion/manipulation or reading of subtle body language but some of the larger collective thinking /perception excercises are unexplainable without a belief in the mystical. does this mean i got douped?

seriously watch them for yourselves, specifically the one where volunteers pick a number at random in their heads that he then gets to do a simple subtraction/addition of certain numbers, using many a person not knowing the numbers in their head he gets them to add those up to reach a number that was pre-picked, it was that days date. The freaky thing is how he used their numbers in their heads to make Them perform a maths equation that would collectively equal the desired result. The point is... Desire, Goal Setting, attraction to end points. How we get there the universe will handle we just need to know what we want. <-- hardest part. If we want anything at all it's easy enough to get.

Skepticism is ok, for gauging peoples actions and intentions and even your own perceptions, reality and perception being highly malleable, skepticism is a key to seeing what's going on. First we should think about skepticism though, in all instances it seems to be re-validating another belief; to create reality in the first place we have original conditions or original assumptions made on the structures/concepts of reality, and ever since then it is a matter of learning.. cross-refrencing with our original beliefs and incorporating new ones, skepticism plays a part to see if these new sensory input and belief constructs are congruent with the old. If they are not we may reject the new information. However, Why not be just as skeptical of the old constructs? if the only constant is change, then theres nothing paranormal about a change in perception.

Sometimes the Tower must be fully burnt down before one can rebuild something structurally stronger. Maybe it's kind of stupid to start little fires occasionally and patch up with duct tape... if there's something worth doing, it's worth doing right. Who wants to join my " Deprogram and Reprogram Program" ? First we'll hack at every part of your belief body and feed that to the sharks... then by making love to the universal mind we will birth a new body of beliefs.

...I'm rambling, point is if 'blind idiotic faith' means i can lead a happy life and share this with my brothers and sisters then send me to the idiots. the thing is my faith is self constructed and i must always remain skeptical to test its structural stability. However when anything happens you have the option to trust/distrust, this is automatic. You may reflect later but as the instant occurs you have the automatic reaction. Doubt is not always the healthiest automatic reaction to your thoughts. I'm remaining optimistic.

I thought the exact point was that all human emotion cannot be reduced so simplisitically... anyway, I don't think I agree that existence is dualistic, especially with a capital D. The fear/love dualism just reminds me of Christians I used to know who believed that faith is the opposite of fear, and use it to support a positive thinking belief system, which I think is silly and doesn't take into account the richness of human experience.

It's hard to know what the point of the movie was, that was certainly Donnie Darkos (the characters) point but it need not be the truth... why? cause the movie said so? .. my whole point is just that, things are this simple. It's amazing how complex computer software is considering it's all 1's and 0's eh? you can't reduce that so simplistically? I mean theres photoshop and 3d studio max to account for, complicated code right there. - Lets explain reality by every imaginable creation of it!!! lets explain emotion by every combination of fear/love ratios. I thought the purpose of building models is to not need to re-create the entirety. I thought the idea is to try to distill some kind of essential .. extract of 'pure being' - hehe am reminded of I heart Huckabees.. too many existential movies for me I think, time to exist again.. instead of talking about it.

The Christians are correct that there are two options Faith / Fear (Faith/Love/Altruism for me are interchangeable to some extent dependent on context). The Christians are also an oxymoronic existence as seen by their dichotomous position of enforcing faith by inducing fear. Believe or you'll go to hell. what if i don't believe in hell? hehe.

[The Dude]

Making another reply in case nobody can be stuffed reading that ^^^

The way I see it, we are born into a self-perpetuating existence.. perpetuated by ingrained beliefs. As Youths the rebellious nature is.. Natural. It is natural to be cynical and criticise and doubt our previous indoctrination, faith it seems is despised most of all cuz its seen as stupid to believe in untangible concepts that are nothing more than an authority figure based on fear - which is the antithesis of faith but nevermind, faith gets a bad rap. (IMHO faith initiated the whole there being something instead of nothing.. cuz some god character believed in it)

Skepticism and rebellion works for long enough, but after a while the rebel without a cause mentality is depressing and a cause must be found.. a cause with idealism and optimisim and going out on a limb with faith, that is the idea of providing an alternative.. you can't really be cynical of it unless we're all for conservativism, this applies to politics and metaphysics.

[phloom]

wow! yeah fully dude.....Ive read this whole thread about twice now. Its really got me thinking.

Im thinking about language, about how we have agreed on these symbols we are using here; "faith", "truth", "reality", "reason" etc.

I keep getting a message in lucid states; when I ask the big questions ie why?, how?, what next? is anyone there?

the answer; "stop asking stupid questions". This doesn't mean stop asking questions at all, just realise that there are many lines of thought that just go in circles. Then there are ones that uncover new ground. Like this thread for example (of course this is subjective isnt it?).

Its very difficult for a flatlander to imagine a cube; but not impossible. Maybe it will be easier if I concieve of one corner and you another etc etc; until it reveals itself fully. I suppose it comes back to story telling, if you don't like the story why do you keep telling it.

A prophet named Banksy once said "Most people don't use their initiative, because no one told them to"

[chilli]

Sometimes the Tower must be fully burnt down before one can rebuild something structurally stronger. Maybe it's kind of stupid to start little fires occasionally and patch up with duct tape... if there's something worth doing, it's worth doing right. Who wants to join my " Deprogram and Reprogram Program" ? First we'll hack at every part of your belief body and feed that to the sharks... then by making love to the universal mind we will birth a new body of beliefs.

Creepy. What is the schema of this 'new' body of beliefs?

point is if 'blind idiotic faith' means i can lead a happy life and share this with my brothers and sisters then send me to the idiots. the thing is my faith is self constructed and i must always remain skeptical to test its structural stability. However when anything happens you have the option to trust/distrust, this is automatic. You may reflect later but as the instant occurs you have the automatic reaction. Doubt is not always the healthiest automatic reaction to your thoughts. I'm remaining optimistic.

I grew out of blind idiotic faith some time ago, but I hope it works out for you. I think trust is important at all stages of life, and hope, but these are not the same as blind optimism. You sound strangely like a televangelist...

The way I see it, we are born into a self-perpetuating existence.. perpetuated by ingrained beliefs. As Youths the rebellious nature is.. Natural. It is natural to be cynical and criticise and doubt our previous indoctrination, faith it seems is despised most of all cuz its seen as stupid to believe in untangible concepts that are nothing more than an authority figure based on fear - which is the antithesis of faith but nevermind, faith gets a bad rap. (IMHO faith initiated the whole there being something instead of nothing.. cuz some god character believed in it)

Skepticism and rebellion works for long enough, but after a while the rebel without a cause mentality is depressing and a cause must be found.. a cause with idealism and optimisim and going out on a limb with faith, that is the idea of providing an alternative.. you can't really be cynical of it unless we're all for conservativism, this applies to politics and metaphysics.

Conflating skepticism and teenage rebellion strikes me as kind of unwieldy, as is projecting one teenage experience onto the entire population. I have found people usually seem to go from idealism to disillusionment to a synthesis of the two if they don't kill themselves... that is, unless they get stuck at idealism or disillusionment like many people seem to.

[phloom]

It confuses me how people criticise someone elses ideas without substituting anything better.

Yeah sure things arent so black and white, so how are they exactly?

[chilli]

It confuses me how people criticise someone elses ideas without substituting anything better.

Yeah sure things arent so black and white, so how are they exactly?

I guess you are referring to me? If you read what I wrote again, you might see that I explain my reasoning when I dare to offer my opinion on El Duderino's comments. You might even find my answer to your question, it is there you just have to concentrate.

It confuses me how people think discussions can take place without criticism and disagreement... but I digress into thread rape.

[phloom]

I think I understand what you getting at..... No I don't, I see El D expressing a need, which I resonate with. You allude to something in between 'teenage idealism' and disillusionment, like you've seen it all before.

What is this 'third path'.

Smugness?

I think if you you concentrate and read carefully, you'll notice we are dancing around the same opinion essentially but getting confused with 'unwieldy' words. But I also digress.

Edited November 22, 2007 by phloom

[chilli]

I think I understand what you getting at..... No I don't, I see El D expressing a need, which I resonate with. You allude to something in between 'teenage idealism' and disillusionment, like you've seen it all before.

What is this 'third path'.

Smugness?

I think if you you concentrate and read carefully, you'll notice we are dancing around the same opinion essentially but getting confused with 'unwieldy' words. But I also digress.

It's quite straightforward, let me spell it out for you in true Hegelian fashion: thesis>antithesis>synthesis. You could also look at it through the filter of any number of human developmental theories... all it really means is that in the course of their lives people often swing to one extreme, then another, before integrating parts of each into a more psychologically mature perspective. As far as I know, one of the signs of a developed mind is the ability to hold ideas in harmony that when looked at simplistically seem irreconcilable.

[phloom]

Hooray! a real theory and very well referenced too! It took a bit of slander but it has emerged.

So. Having learnt this, and as a young person does this mean that the elders in our society, indeed in this community hold the intellectual keys to expressing the next stage of our collective evolution? Some how it seems its a bit quiet on the elder front.

Does this mean that here in my precociois youth I am somehow lacking an important piece of information?

I am all ears

[chilli]

Hooray! a real theory and very well referenced too! It took a bit of slander but it has emerged.

So. Having learnt this, and as a young person does this mean that the elders in our society, indeed in this community hold the intellectual keys to expressing the next stage of our collective evolution? Some how it seems its a bit quiet on the elder front.

Does this mean that here in my precociois youth I am somehow lacking an important piece of information?

I am all ears

I don't know what slander you are referring to... did you slander me? I certainly haven't slandered you or anyone else here. Well, not much anyway.

The theory was there in my previous post as well, I just phrased it differently... I'm glad I was able to put it in a way you could grasp, but you still apparently missed something, which is where I said "I have found people usually seem to go from idealism to disillusionment to a synthesis of the two if they don't kill themselves... that is, unless they get stuck at idealism or disillusionment like many people seem to" by which I partly was implying that these processes occur and become static at various times in various people, so you might have a very childish old man or a wise and humble teenager (yeah, right!). So the stuff about elders and collective evolution you pulled in from somewhere else, but thanks for participating.

[The Dude]

Conflating skepticism and teenage rebellion strikes me as kind of unwieldy,

WTF? where does rebellion come from if not a healthy skepticism of that you are rebelling against? Dissidence stems from mistrust (ie: skepticism). Rebellion seems an uncontrollable urge in the youth they don't even know why. If for anything this urge to question everything is there to tear down the indoctrinated belief systems that naturally arise, with our own assumptions and our acts of faith believing everyone else, the instinct to question seems to be part of our evolution as we have grown into tribal societies and now with government especially.

How we perceive reality is based on assumptions and beliefs, sometimes it is contrary to them, unfortunately personal experience seems to have taken a backseat in terms of legitimacy when we rather dismiss our perceived reality to continue believing the consensus view, dictated by authority figures and public opinion, cuz it's scary to trust your own authority over reality-perceiving(creating) decisions.

If you were convinced an alien abducted you, would the you you are now clash and doubt your own experience? surely it must be a delusion.. what with the way they bend space/time, it's impossible!!!

...

I figure, the questioning nature of the youth is what starts them off as seekers of truth. Because of the dissillusionment of the obvious lies. The purpose of the dark side is to lie cheat and steal.. so that by their very actions we can see there must be more to this picture, the picture thats occluded by "their" lies. "they" the dark side, Satan the deceiver is present within all as we grasp at truth and find ourselves holding a muddy picture of it. All reality is essentially a deception, but there are some well polished aspects that reflect some kind of truth.

Conflating skepticism and teenage rebellion strikes me as kind of unwieldy, as is projecting one teenage experience onto the entire population. I have found people usually seem to go from idealism to disillusionment to a synthesis of the two if they don't kill themselves... that is, unless they get stuck at idealism or disillusionment like many people seem to.

Haha, did you see what you just did there? you talk of me projecting (probably my) teenage experience onto the entire population as being unweildly then you go off and do the same. no biggie, everybody generalises, The stupid thing is i fucking agree with you! (cuz you reworded essentially what i said) You grow up with the beliefs taught you, idealistic and happy, you see the bullshit facade of what Really happens, you become disillusioned. This is no good state to be in permanently so you build your own faith.. and like you say synthesise skepticism and faith(idealism).

I like conflating... or rather finding out the commonality of things. Rebellion is a result of Skepticism which is about Mistrust - which is essentially all about fear of personal harm. if we are skeptical of something such as a novel idea, it is a fear that believing it would make us wrong (be douped). also there is the deep unconscious fear of anything new. When we are skeptical of older constructs it is a fear about what has happened before, a mistrust of our own traditional beliefs - which have previously caused us harm. Sketicism of anything is a fear of that thing being somehow harmful. Skepticism of a new belief is mistrust in its benefits and it is a suspicion it is actually harmful. It stems out of the fear of being wrong, as that has proven to be harmful before.

Skepticism is hindering when it dissallows one to even entertain an idea they see as too far from their own beliefs. Entertaining a belief allows it to prove itself. If the result is beneficial who the fuck cares how well it fits with traditionally established truths. The funny thing is that spiritual truths have been established long before empricial rationality took the scene as the only legitimate belief.

I grew out of blind idiotic faith some time ago, but I hope it works out for you. I think trust is important at all stages of life, and hope, but these are not the same as blind optimism.

"blind idiotic faith" i said in inverted comas as a way of saying what people may think about faith in general. However the only way to test your faith is to keep your eyes open - and not be idiotic about it.

You sound strangely like a televangelist...

mmm strange indeed, I've never heard a televangelist promote mind expansion as a way of deconstucting your indoctrination and creating a synthesis of personal experience and ideas that tries to explain just what the fuck you believe in: A foundation on which to stand after deconstructing the rest of reality.

Fear destroys, Love creates.. love would consist of all our hopes/ideas/dreams that are what attract us to actual things/events, doubt only destroys/deconstructs which is needed with non-functional or outdated ideas/beliefs but should not ever be the dominating aspect, for we could very well will ourselves out of existence

Belief creates existence and i rather exist than dissolve into entropy.

Mind Expansion is meant to break open the head, the connection is there to be seen, you dont even need to try associating anything, with the doors of perception unlocked you just witness it. Gnosis is common but often mistrusted, if you are skeptical of personal experience to the extreme this is unbalanced and unhealthy skepticism i believe.

Creepy. What is the schema of this 'new' body of beliefs?

The symbolism is taken from the Tower card in Tarot. It represents ... structures, falling down, destroyed. It could mean the destruction of your old thought constructs paving the way for a paradigm shift.

Now the idea I was trying to get across was that self-analysis and introspection with the purpose of deconstruction/reconstruction of these belief structures is best done properly instead of half-arsed. That metaprogramming a new belief structure might best be done on a clean slate, a tower that has been fully burnt down, instead of trying to patch up an old belief system with new information, this information is always skewed by past experience.. the new structure must fit into the old building, this is inescapable to some extent but a return to the source re-boots your whole thinking and may sweep away entirely a defunct belief system - it may burn it to the ground, and out of its ashes .. a pheonix. It's best to restart from the ground up sometimes.

I just realised that I'm mixing way too many metaphors here, but the other idea introduced before was to "make love to the collective" and birth yourself a fresh baby of a belief system. I named this my program but i'm sure i stole that from somewhere, point is the deprogramming and reprogramming is a (trans)personal affair and it is about how YOU interperet your universe. There'll be no indocrination by me... although my writings could be misconstrued as such. these are merely assumptions of how reality could maybe really be. I'm not claiming any kind of godly authority here in my writings (unlike some schools of belief).

Edited November 22, 2007 by El Duderino

[chilli]

But don't you think you are god? Anyway, when discussions get so long and focussed on the definitions, semantics and dynamic of the discussion itself I can't be bothered anymore... Maybe if you summarized it in a few sentences I'd be more inclined to respond, but as it is there are too many glaringly obvious problems to address its too time consuming, sorry.

Edited November 24, 2007 by IllegalBrain