Synesthesia

[Stinkmeat]

If anyone is unsure what Synesthesia is, here is a quick overview:

It is basically the crossing over of senses. For example someone may hear a song and associate a particular colour, taste, or smell with that auditory stimuli. There are cases of the crossing over of pretty much every sense, and it can be a combination of more than one. I have also heard of this occurring fairly often on psychedelics.

I have recently noticed (in the last couple of years) that I hear music in colour and also see numbers in colour, thus have been trying to develop this trait/skill. This is where is gets interesting. If I listen to an album, it appears in a basic wash of colour. e.g. The album Anima by Tool gives off a mixed wash of black, deep purple and deep blue. If I listen to a particular song from this album. e.g. Track 2. Eulogy I get a clearer mixture of light and dark blue and light and dark green. Also particular numbers give off different colours. e.g. 3 is green in my mind, while 5 is red/orange and 7 yellow. Certain colours correspond with varying subtle emotions.

I play guitar and thought that I could start to put this into practice while writing my own music. Note that I do not know how to read music but am easily able to follow tableture (musical numbering). I am now starting to write music based on the colours I hear from the guitar. Each note, chord and riff has a varying but constant colour. I can also now draw a basic colour sketch of a song and know roughly what it is going to sound like.

The main thing that I want to know from everyone else is if anyone else has had a similar thing, how they use/deal with it in their everyday life and what you think its purpose, if any, could be? It seems to be more common in people that are already creative, or creative people may be that way because of it.

Edited October 4, 2007 by stinkmeat

[No_One]

Have you read Newtons "Opticks".

In it he goes on about the stuff you're talking about - might blow you hair back might not, if you don't buy it atleast have a look on the net for stuff about his music colour wheel or colour music wheel (it's one of them) - anyway, it's good stuff.

Peace

[mu!]

There was some doco on ABC a while ago about this high-functioning autistic guy who was a nut at maths, could remember heaps of long sequences. He saw numbers as colour aswell. They mentioned he had a brain hemorrhage whilst very young also.

Interesting stuff

Edited October 4, 2007 by mu.

[Stinkmeat]

Yeah I saw that doco on the maths genius. I have seen a couple of others with similar cases. People being able to do insane mathematical equations because they are able to see number grids/patterns that allow them to easily keep track of whatever they are working out. I find this sort of stuff really interesting and wonder whether its just a weird mistake/mutation or some form of evolutionary step. A new higher level of interpretation of the world.

I will try to find that book too Shiva,

Cheers

[chilli]

Hey stinkmeat, welcome to SAB... nice pic! I'm curious, when you say you see music as color, could you describe exactly how you 'see' it? Thanks.

[Stinkmeat]

I'm curious, when you say you see music as color, could you describe exactly how you 'see' it? Thanks.

Hey IllegalBrain. It's somewhat hard to explain. I don't actually see a solid image in front of my eyes, nor do i see the sound waves. It is more of a mental image or association, comparable to thinking of a colour and remembering what that colour looks like. If a song contains an notable key change, this will conjure up a more vivid mental image.e.g. I associate the change from the key of D to E (0 to 3 in drop D tuning) with the colour green. If I was to see the colour green on a piece of paper, I would get the same emotional response as hearing the above mentioned (green) key change. So in conclusion, (haha it sounds like i am writing an essay for school) it is more of an emotional and mental association to a particular sound. A particular sound is associated with a particular colour, but it all happens in my minds eye.

Dunno if that helps you at all because I am starting to confuse myself. ha

Edited October 4, 2007 by stinkmeat

[ThunderIdeal]

interestingly, the number seven was pretty big shit back in newtons day. it still is but everyone isn't bonkers about christianity these days.

this is probably why newton decided there were seven colours in the spectrum, rather than six. apparently the eye doesn't really differentiate between indigo and violet (both are purple).

i think it was posted here this year, something about how a certain percentage of britons have a condition where they perceive colours when they hear words, or something like that.

anyway, i saw a program recently about software that was getting amazing results with children who had extreme difficulty in learning numeracy and literacy skills. i can't say exactly how it works but every number or letter would be associated with a colour and also a letter (or number).

[chilli]

Hey IllegalBrain. It's somewhat hard to explain. I don't actually see a solid image in front of my eyes, nor do i see the sound waves. It is more of a mental image or association, comparable to thinking of a colour and remembering what that colour looks like. If a song contains an notable key change, this will conjure up a more vivid mental image.e.g. I associate the change from the key of D to E (0 to 3 in drop D tuning) with the colour green. If I was to see the colour green on a piece of paper, I would get the same emotional response as hearing the above mentioned (green) key change. So in conclusion, (haha it sounds like i am writing an essay for school) it is more of an emotional and mental association to a particular sound. A particular sound is associated with a particular colour, but it all happens in my minds eye.

Dunno if that helps you at all because I am starting to confuse myself. ha

That's interesting, as I thought that with that kind of synesthesia you actually saw the sounds in your visual field. Perhaps what you are experiencing is a milder form or something entirely different? How long have you had this experience for?

[Stinkmeat]

That's interesting, as I thought that with that kind of synesthesia you actually saw the sounds in your visual field. Perhaps what you are experiencing is a milder form or something entirely different? How long have you had this experience for?

You could be right IllegalBrain, I have never been medically diagnosed with synethesia before or anything to that extent. I just assumed as much. It has been happening to me for at least the last 5-6 years that I have consciously noticed (about the time that I started to become passionate about music).

They have done tests on UNI students to get a rough idea how common it is. Apparently a lot of people have it in a very mild form. The way they tested it was by getting a group of people to assign a colour to each letter in the alphabet, and repeated it at least twice. The people that were thought to have synesthesia were able to assign the same colour to each letter every time they undertook the test. The people that didn't have synesthesia returned a random test each time. Although this test has obvious flaws (i.e. the ability to simply memorise what colour you assigned to each letter), I believe that it discovered that 60-70% of the test population had a mild form of synesthesia.

Just for shits and giggles, let me know what colour you think the letters A,B and C are. I know what I think they are, but am curious to see if anyone matches up.

[dqd]

Blue, black and orange, to my mind anyway

[Ace]

I dont think this is quite synesthesia, but has anyone ever noticed distinct tastes/smells whilest yawning? Occasionally when I yawn I notice a very distinct smell or taste that I have not experienced for some time. The other day for example I got a distinct smell from my childhood - the rose scent from my grandparents place (which I havent actually smelled for at least a decade!). It isnt just a mild sort of thing, when it happens it is usually very distinct and immediately reminds you of something, even if you havent thought of it or experienced it from anywhere from a few days (like the distinct smell of certain fungi ) to many years. Another example was randomly smelling a hotdog (random, thats for sure!) whilst in mid-yawn, even though there was absolutely nothing in the vacinity which might have been the source of the smell.

Not sure why this is - it certainly isnt just a case of halitosis or anything I know taste and smell are very closely related and even function together in most cases, but why it would relate to occasional yawning is beyond me. It is worth noting that the smells/tastes that occur at random are very short lived (only whilst yawning) and never seem to relate to my surroundings (the hotdog example above was experienced while on a bus to work one morning with absolutely no signs of hotdog action on the bus or where the bus was travelling). It also doesnt seem to be related to recent experiences - if anything, it seems to be things that havent been experienced for a long time.

Sorry for the hijack, thought it might sort of tie into the unusual crossing of senses thread

BTW - I've never experienced the colours/words/numbers thing. I tend to see words/letters/numbers as simple visual symbols (which I'd imagine the majority of people would) more than sensory (colour) cues. I wonder if this may be related to the way you were taught to read? I know there are endless ways to learn and each would (you would think) have a slightly different way of influencing the reader. Perhaps you struggled (dont take this personally, I am not trying to insult, just finding a possible explanation ) with learning to interpret words as symbols, so as a natural reflex to the difficulty of the taught methods, you developed your own method (using colour) to help cope. With time, maybe this method worked well and it continued to develop and perhaps only recently become distinct enough to be obvious to you? Just a theory

The human body and mind are both very complicated systems - and bloody fascinating!

EDIT: Just thinking of a logical explanation for my yawning/smelling/tasting crossovers. Perhaps whilst in a perticular brain wave pattern (it also seems to be while I am fairly relaxed and zoned out), yawning triggers the memory part of my brain to fire a certain pattern in the electrons (or whatever they are) which allow me to experience an unrelated memory via the taste/smell senses? Seems logical enough to me. I wonder if the yawning phenomena is a common thing and perhaps documented somewhere? It'd be interesting to see if my theory is correct

Edited October 9, 2007 by Ace

[Stinkmeat]

Now that you mention it Ace, I do remember learning to read and write with the aid of coloured flash cards in preschool/infants school. That does help to explain the letter and number side of things but there is still the auditory part to consider. It may be explained by my before mentioned inability to read music, but ability to read musical numbering. My brain could well have just mad the colour/number link automatically.

About the yawning phenomenon, I get a similar thing but not while yawning. It is usually just a random smell that appears out of nowhere but gives me an overwhelming sense of nostalgia. Some examples are the smell of a certain green budding plant, a certain fungi, the smell of my parents or relatives home and new plastic smell. The new plastic smell is the most profound. It is mostly related to when I was a kid, opening a new toy or video game or something like that. It makes me feel like I am 6 or 7 years old again. Most of these arise when I am either looking forward to something that maybe related to that smell. Maybe your body was telling you to go buy a hotdog that day hahaha.

[Ace]

Well there ya go! That certainly seems to be a link there - probably even more links if you were able to dig thru old/faded memories. The link to the music/reading tabs is also a very good possibility.

Yeah them smells certianly do bring back memories - the smell of some fresh herb, some fungi and any distinctly smelly things involved with good times The smell of plastic/rubber from childhood also comes up occasionally now that you mention it - when I was a little tacker my grandparents (same ones with the rose smelling house) used to give me toy dinosaurs (used to know every scientific name for them, even from the youngest of ages!) that had that awesome plastic smell. Not the really offensive stench of certain plastics, just pleasant ones that you seem to remember for a lifetime. And the tasty smells of old lolly containers (like them old novelty garbage bins and coffins and the old 'hubba bubba' and stuff) Mmmm, I'm imagining them right now!

I wonder if the smells (well now that I think about it, they are less so 'smells', than just very distinct memories/thoughts that come across as smells) that occasionally pop up in mid-yawn (or occasionally just randomly, but much less often IME) are just reminders of nostalgic and pleasant memories? Perhaps its just my body trying to get me to stress less as an adult and go back to the easy days of childhood? Would make sense

Maybe your body was telling you to go buy a hotdog that day hahaha.

Hmm, well I do enjoy a quality hotdog...

[chilli]

You could be right IllegalBrain, I have never been medically diagnosed with synethesia before or anything to that extent. I just assumed as much. It has been happening to me for at least the last 5-6 years that I have consciously noticed (about the time that I started to become passionate about music).

They have done tests on UNI students to get a rough idea how common it is. Apparently a lot of people have it in a very mild form. The way they tested it was by getting a group of people to assign a colour to each letter in the alphabet, and repeated it at least twice. The people that were thought to have synesthesia were able to assign the same colour to each letter every time they undertook the test. The people that didn't have synesthesia returned a random test each time. Although this test has obvious flaws (i.e. the ability to simply memorise what colour you assigned to each letter), I believe that it discovered that 60-70% of the test population had a mild form of synesthesia.

Just for shits and giggles, let me know what colour you think the letters A,B and C are. I know what I think they are, but am curious to see if anyone matches up.

Okay, red yellow green... yeah from what I have read, it is quite common, although foaf's I have heard of have only every experienced it on alice and mesc.

As far as the smells and stuff go, I thought I would mention this seeing as it is topical... I have had the nostalgia/memory smells, I guess heaps of people do, but just lately I have been experiencing nostalgic flashes of places and situations that are apparently apropros of nothing... they just pop into my head at seemingly random times, but are similar in impact to the memories I have associated with certain smells.

Edited October 12, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Stinkmeat]

I'm not sure if this is scientifically proven or not, but I have heard a few people say that smell is our most easily remembered sense. Maybe it is easier for our brain to associate a smell with a memory, rather than an image. When these smell memories occur, I usually know exactly what the smell is but it takes me a while to get a mental image of what else was happening or who was there at the time.

That doesn't explain you though IllegalBrain. I have never had profound memories unless accompanied by a smell or sound. I always think of past events, some with more fondness than others, but they never give me the overwhelming sense of feeling like a child again.

And I will put up my opinion of the ABC colours when a few more people have stated theirs. None have been the same so far, IllegalBrain is sorta close.

[chilli]

I'm not sure if this is scientifically proven or not, but I have heard a few people say that smell is our most easily remembered sense. Maybe it is easier for our brain to associate a smell with a memory, rather than an image. When these smell memories occur, I usually know exactly what the smell is but it takes me a while to get a mental image of what else was happening or who was there at the time.

That doesn't explain you though IllegalBrain. I have never had profound memories unless accompanied by a smell or sound. I always think of past events, some with more fondness than others, but they never give me the overwhelming sense of feeling like a child again.

And I will put up my opinion of the ABC colours when a few more people have stated theirs. None have been the same so far, IllegalBrain is sorta close.

Yeah it is kind of weird, it has only been happening in the past year or even less. I'll just be in the middle of a sentence, or just doing something like picking something up and suddenly a vivid memory of a time and place will occur to me. What is weird is that it's usually not a special time or situation I remember, just something like a house I walked past 10 years ago, or something equally as random.

Perhaps I have broken my head.

[Stinkmeat]

Perhaps I have broken my head hahaha

Now that I think about it, I have had sorta similar things happening to me IllegalBrain. Except mine are in reverse. I had a dream a few months ago in which I was working in a kitchen. I was doing seemingly unimportant tasks such as washing dishes, entering a cold room, etc. About a week or two later I got a job working in a kitchen. On the second or third day that I was working there, I got hardcore deja vu. I was doing the exact same thing that I was doing in my dream. Like I had seen the future in my dream. Freaked me out a bit.

I also had a weird memory of a random event will cooking (the memory was totally unrelated to what I was doing at the time and was too obscure to fully make out).

Edited October 13, 2007 by stinkmeat

[devance]

Well, as we can't smell urine [females in heat] as animals can because of the nose's nerve center has mutated into a small [small as a pinhead] but complex sensory and nerve center.

So maybe essential scents are maybe very important for mood and health.

[Stinkmeat]

For dgd and IllegalBain, here is my opinion of the ABC colours. A - Orangie Red, B - Blood Red and C - Blue

[chilli]

For dgd and IllegalBain, here is my opinion of the ABC colours. A - Orangie Red, B - Blood Red and C - Blue

But those aren't similar to mine! Hey, so anyway are you saying you have grapheme->color and sound->color synesthesia? Is that like, really rare?

[Sparkster]

But those aren't similar to mine!

Jung always said a symbols can mean different things to different people, and theres no single way of interpreting them

I'd have to say that colours people 'see' are more subconsciously associated with the album art. (e.g: Tool, Anima)

I'm sure if you asked people what colours they associated with the Beatles White album, it would be a far different answer from the Sargent Peppers album. Not because of the music, but the immediate and first impression of the album.

The association is there, the subconscious is just heavily responsible.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Sparkster

[Stinkmeat]

Yeah I did take that into account Sparkster, but I hear colours from songs that I have downloaded (thus never seeing the cover art). I also think that most intelligent musicians would create cover art that portrays their music in some way, so it makes sense that I would also relate the two

And IllegalBrain, I know they are not exactly the same colours. But your A and B (red and yellow) are not that far away one the colour spectrum from my orange and red. And I thought green was pretty close to blue, I assumed dark green but by the sounds of it I was wrong. Just curiosity.

[Stinkmeat]

And IllegalBrain, if I do have syneshtesia, I definitely don't think it is a special rare type. It's just that have tried to develop it more than most people. Thus can be used in a different way. I think that a lot of people would have something similar to me, but may not notice it or really give a shit.

[chilli]

And IllegalBrain, if I do have syneshtesia, I definitely don't think it is a special rare type. It's just that have tried to develop it more than most people. Thus can be used in a different way. I think that a lot of people would have something similar to me, but may not notice it or really give a shit.

I meant isn't it rare to have two kinds of synesthesia? Besides, from what I have read most people who have it are aware of it from a young age and either love it or hate it.

I wish I had something cool wrong with my brain.

[Stinkmeat]

I wish I had something cool wrong with my brain.

HAHAHAHAHA, fukin gold.

Yeah I s'pose it is 2 types, the letter + number/colour and the sound/colour. Possible rare. Most of the docos and research I have seen have cases with only one type so yeah possibly rare.