Why are drugs illegal?

[El Barto]

In my naive and uneducated opinion its because it can promote thinking and a way of seeing that is not nesseseraly a good thing for the system we live in

what anyone else think?

[apothecary]

Culture of fear simply makes things easier to control.

"Drugs" are simply a means to an end, same as communists, ethnic minorities who will rape your women, terrorism, homosexuals, sexual offenders (I am not condoning sexual assault, merely observing that 9 out of 10 times the situation is hyped for a purpose), etc.

[nabraxas]

because drugs are bad mmmkay.

[chilli]

"sexual offenders (I am not condoning sexual assault, merely observing that 9 out of 10 times the situation is hyped for a purpose)"

What purpose are these situations hyped for 9 times out of 10?

[apothecary]

Well, the media hypes a lot of sexual assault cases way out of proportion simply because it is good money. Haven't you seen the simpsons episode "Homer Badman"?

Police all over the world have increased their legal ability to infringe on the privacy of internet users to battle "internet child porn", statistically speaking 90% of the "child porn" on the internet is supposed to be legal aged girls who look young and are dolled to look even younger. I haven't personally verified this stat, but I am inclined to believe it

Again, I'll point out I'm not condoning sexual assault, but it really is one of those culture of fear issues. In some states in the US, a statute called "Megans Law" (up to 40 US states have some version of this law now) has been adopted, wherein prior arrests for public urination or consensual homosexual sex can legally require you to register with a sexual offenders list which is distributed to the community, there have been several cases of vigilantism against people on this list already.

Sorry for the hijack.

[goldfinger]

Back to the topic...

Drugs are illegal because while there are people out there that can take drugs on a regular basis while holding down jobs leading a normal life etc....

There are those others that just cant function in life with drug use. I know many ppl who just cannot function in todays society with there drug use. By this i mean they cant hold jobs, cant provide for there familys or just are lacking that ambition to succeed. I also know other people that use just as much and can do all these things and more.

Now im sure if drugs became legal this would just make it so much harder for some people who are strugggling with there dependencies at the moment.

Arrgh this is a topic i could talk about for hours...

I am all for legalisation dont get me wrong.. But there must be rules in affect if they did legalise to protect the people that just cant help themselves.

GF

[Amulte]

Greed. plain and simple.

its got nothing to do with abuse or anything like that. if they really cared about drug abuse, alcohol would not be available along with shitloads of pharmas and the homless would be higher on the 'to do' list. protecting the people my ass. more like protecting their pocket book. they are NOT 'protecting' us but theirselves. they dont want another free thinking movment, it would crush them this time around. they are breeding generations of ignorance and blind patriotism, free thinking will foil their plans.

too many people would loose money if illegal drugs became legal. 1st and formost are police officers. so when ever there is a smell of change for drugs the police step forward preaching about the streets and drugs. 90% of the thing they claim are bullshit. if thery hype up the drug problem then they can continue to earn some extra $$ on the side by selling and arresting.

FFS in USA the majority of its cocaine comes in through texas or florida. majorioty of USA senateors and politicians are from Texas or florida... surely MUST be coincidence (sarcastic).

the illegal drug trade is government sponsered, it provides them alot of extra revenue that they would surely miss. that and the pressures of pharmacutical companies.

go back through time to the early 1920's when drugs started becoming illegal and its more about being racist than anything else. Australia has rarely been able to think for itself in reguards to drug policy so it simply followed suit with its big brother USA. and the ignorance of "if it aint broke dont fix it" is probably why there has not and will not be any change for quite some time.

**Amulte beats a dead horse**

Edited September 2, 2007 by Amulte

[teonanacatl]

well said goldfinger

[tonic]

I am more inclined to agree with Amulte on this one. He raised some good points.

Whilst what you say is definitely truth goldfinger...

There are those others that just cant function in life with drug use. I know many ppl who just cannot function in todays society with there drug use. By this i mean they cant hold jobs, cant provide for there familys or just are lacking that ambition to succeed.

Though who put pressure on society to succeed? The goverment of course. What is success anyway? Big house? Fuel guzzling car? Wife with 2 kids? Large amounts of money?

If that's what success is, I would rather be happy in my own way with my own ideals and if possible the freedom to alter my awareness if I so desire to achieve better thought patterns and learn from the teachings that are there for all to see and benefit from in many different ways [some choose not to]. Though a society where I, and my fellow man cannot be allowed to do so as we wish is just a farce to me and as Amulte said it is largely about commerce, greed and also the greater control of the worlds population.

because drugs are bad mmmkay.

Drugs aern't bad they are just grossly misunderstood. Drugs aern't the problem the people are.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Phosphene_Dream

[chilli]

Going by that latest drug education pamphlet, it might simply be a case of gross ignorance... after all, how many conservative politicians do you think have ever tripped out on anything?

[teonanacatl]

they dont want another free thinking movment, it would crush them this time around. they are breeding generations of ignorance and blind patriotism, free thinking will foil their plans.

I think it still takes a special kind of person to be a free thinker, majority just are followers, and free thinkers probably take drugs now as it is. Thus I doubt legalisation of drugs would provove a dramatic change in thinking, not initially in the way you put it. For a start drugs arnt accepted and legalisation wouldnt change that, majority of people will still rather get drunk and its doubtfull the majority of people will approach psychedelics with the desire to open their mind. Over time I think this would change but so would politics along with it.

There would also be money raised if drugs became legal, the government would make a mint taxing it.

its got nothing to do with abuse or anything like that. if they really cared about drug abuse, alcohol would not be available along with shitloads of pharmas and the homless would be higher on the 'to do' list

There is a greater user base of alcohol users then there is for most other drugs, majority rules thats how it is. Its a different story now when a drug rises to popularity then banning a drug so inbuilt in our society, could garentee alcohol would be ban if it came to fame now!!!

Though who put pressure on society to succeed? The goverment of course. What is success anyway? Big house? Fuel guzzling car? Wife with 2 kids? Large amounts of money?

Success is what ever makes you happy but I would like to think there should also be a clause that your happyness shouldnt come at the direct expense of others.

Drugs aern't bad they are just grossly misunderstood. Drugs aern't the problem the people are.

I agree totally, society is too imature to access more then two legal drugs. It cannot even handle the two its got let alone more!!!

Hehehe I think it was auxin who said the only way for us to win the war on drugs is if drug use stopped completely!!! and its so true, no drugs and the jobs and money from them disapears and likewise one can argue look we dont NEED drugs and we can function well without them so can we now have them legally. I seriously think its the only way drugs will ever become legal. But who is gonna give up drugs?

Just as aside, if you take alook at any intenet or even non internet group of people each group feels somhow hard done by some rules placed apon them by the government. A good one is Ive recently been looking at hunting forums and bird hunting in QLD is banned because of animal rights activists, as always the against side found evidence to support their claim and so QLD government banned it on public outcry grounds. So one group took away the rights of another group, who gave them the right to do that?

[No_One]

There's a good doco called "Target Mafia", it not only verifies the points Amulte made but also investigates the methods used by J. Edgar Hoover and the Mafia to line their own pockets behind societies back.

[goldfinger]

Had to respond

teonanacatl i think were on the same page with this one.

Honestly i think there are too many conspiracy theories popping up in this thread

its got nothing to do with abuse or anything like that. if they really cared about drug abuse, alcohol would not be available along with shitloads of pharmas and the homless would be higher on the 'to do' list. protecting the people my ass. more like protecting their pocket book.

Alcohol is available because the people need at least one substance to help relax and unwind. The masses have it and if they prohibited alcohol could you imagine what would happen. Just look at prohibition in america when it happened. Alcohol abuse is not a problem with everyone. As i said before some people can not function in society whilst under the influence of drugs. Legal or illegal. I can quite happily have a few beers everyday go out to work the next morning and provide for my family. Whilst some just cant stop at a few, end up drinking before work get sacked etc..

too many people would loose money if illegal drugs became legal. 1st and formost are police officers. so when ever there is a smell of change for drugs the police step forward preaching about the streets and drugs. 90% of the thing they claim are bullshit. if thery hype up the drug problem then they can continue to earn some extra $$ on the side by selling and arresting.

Yeah probably but the government would make way much more money if they legalised it all. Much more than what the total number of shady cops would make in a year. We would be talking multi billion dollar industry..... Cmon you guys in parliment

What is success anyway? Big house? Fuel guzzling car? Wife with 2 kids? Large amounts of money?

Success is what you make it.. As long as you are happy with what you get out of life, you dont need these things to be successful. But everyone is free to have their own view on their success. But whats the point of staying stagnant in your life never achieving anything better. Im not having a go at anyone just giving my own opinion. Everyone is free to have there own thoughts on this subject.

Drugs aern't bad they are just grossly misunderstood. Drugs aern't the problem the people are.

Well said....

GF Spread the Love

[Μορφέας]

Greed. plain and simple.

no, perhaps their is monetary influences in prohibition, perhaps it is the main reason for some substances but drugs are bad and unpredictable in nearly all cases, how many ppl fuck their bodys up and become skinny wasting walking dead from amphetamine or heroin, how many people suffer from permanent anxiety issues from cannabis amphetamine and other drug abuse, how many people have died from abuse and ADDICTION to heroin, opiates and amphetamines?

prohibition is wrong, no one should tell another what they can and cannot do and i believe their should be access to clean and regulated controlled drugs for the safety of our brothers n sisters that are addicts or recreational users, its evil for us to force them to pay for dirty unpredictable potentially lethal stuff from the street.

If opiates/amphetamine was legal how many stupid little teenagers would there that would find them, go omg and being immature and young are going to spend 5 years abusing them to find out theyv wasted their lifes and suffer from permanent damage.

for 1/ the drugs that are illigal which should be considered are the synthetic ones, and being a bunch of introverted complaining plant loving hippys Id expect you all understand the huge differences b/w plants and hard drugs.

2/ The media's propaganda is not the reason we have prohibition, they sell books they dont write legistration so stop blaming them, the ppl who make proper decisions on such topics are well informed and not uneducated scared monkeys on the topic.

Whos worse, those of you that follow the media around like pups and judge our leaders on what they say like their dummy's who listen to everything they print,

or our leaders that have conferences and meetings with real hard data and make educated decisions, Its offensive that we have such little trust and respect for them they know more about our countrys problems then any of you will find out from whats printed in the paper,

the propaganda articles that keep popping up are biased'ly brainwashing us into having no faith or trust in authority as much as it does the general public into thinking drugs are bad.

lol Its like we'r a bunch of children complaining that we cant have any candy from our parents

Its for our own good and I support prohibition of opiates and amphetamines, cannabis is different, kava is just evil, hallucinogens is understandable

EDIT: amulte, if it was plain and simply about greed, drugs would be freely available and taxed

Edited September 2, 2007 by Tepa

[Μορφέας]

I for one would not like to have my still developing child ruled by hormones and emotions to have access to drugs such as their are

[apothecary]

2/ The media's propaganda is not the reason we have prohibition, they sell books they dont write legistration so stop blaming them, the ppl who make proper decisions on such topics are well informed and not uneducated scared monkeys on the topic.

Whos worse, those of you that follow the media around like pups and judge our leaders on what they say like their dummy's who listen to everything they print,

or our leaders that have conferences and meetings with real hard data and make educated decisions, Its offensive that we have such little trust and respect for them they know more about our countrys problems then any of you will find out from whats printed in the paper,

Do you have any examples to back up any of these claims?

The two most recent examples of S9 scheduling were both made arbitrarily in an uninformed decision without any hard data at all. What about the recent decision to restrict import of kava? What made that an educated decision exactly?

I would say the majority of politicians represent one of the most out of touch sections of society, as IB said in another thread, usually there is a rigorous filtering process to become a politician, the majority of which have private school education, come from upper class white families.

Even though they make decisions on health, science, education and military, but they are almost never doctors, scientists, teachers or soldiers. They are just career politicians. The Minister for Health has a double degree in Law/Economics. The defence minister never stood in the line of fire for his country. Hell you can bet that less than 5% of politicians children are serving in the ADF.

[PD.]

If opiates/amphetamine was legal how many stupid little teenagers would there that would find them, go omg and being immature and young are going to spend 5 years abusing them to find out theyv wasted their lifes and suffer from permanent damage.

Prolly not as many as ppl would like to think. Yes of course there is ppl that abuse said substances but really if ya want these drugs then you are gonna find them legal or not legal.

How would this be any different from alcohol abuse or even ciggies for that matter. Many ppl dont drink and i know of young ppl who turned 18 and had no interest in goin to the pube to get shitfaced just because they were finally allowed to by law. So why would the legalisation of any drug cause ppl to suddenly think, "well geez, ive never liked heroin or even wanted to try it, but now its legal WHY THE FUCK NOT." Im quiet sure IF drugs were available legaly there would be a hell of alot more money spent on education about the substances provided that would be a little more in depth and CORRECT than lil Johnnies educational drug pamphlet. what a fuckin joke that is.

for 1/ the drugs that are illigal which should be considered are the synthetic ones, and being a bunch of introverted complaining plant loving hippys Id expect you all understand the huge differences b/w plants and hard drugs.

LOL, you sure do have a way with words Tep, it just goes to show after all the time you have spent here you still have no idea.

The stigma attached to illegal drug use is half the problem for young kids in my opinion but this theory i have goes more into the mental health side of things and if i start i mite not finish lol. There are as many if not more problems caused by drugs being illegal as what would be if the drugs were legal. Although the main problems would most likely be health oriented rather than criminal. I would rather see my kids have free choice and support if they make ill informed descisions rather than the descisions made for them and jail if they fuck up. I would prefer they didnt indulge but all i can do is inform, they will ultimately make their own descisions and mistakes, after all it will be THEIR life to experience.

Imagine the job opportunities if legalisation did occour. I would even get off my arse and go work on a drug farm, or maybe a shootin gallery, no no, drug tester.

"Got a knife in my back got a hole in my arm

I'm driving the tractor on the drug farm...all right"

[teonanacatl]

The recent kava ban had reasons associated with it, namely the abuse in aboriginal communities which has been mentioned by many doctors and what ever in all the various topics around here. Every substance is open to abuse whether it has toxic side effects or not is another matter, kava seems relatively safe interms of toxicity and behavior (certainly much more so than alcohol) but people are still getting trashed on it and not doing anything. In these communities where alcohol is banned and petrol is limited I think it makes sense to knock out all drugs being thats what they seem to be trying to do. Sure I agree baning anything isnt the answer. But yeah basically people in these places cannot even be responsible with petrol. I actually believe the intentions were good, dry communities up and get them healthy and being productive, but I dont think the way they did it was good.

The majority of the population doesnt share the same beliefs in drugs as we do and I know people on this forum aswell have in the past had their troubles with abuse of certian substances showing we are not immune to abusing these things.

Do I think synthetic drugs should be illegal, yes or no but well monitored.

Do I think organisms should be illegal, no.

Do I think organisms should be prepared and sold commercially, no.

Do I think there should be an age limit to use of such things, yes.

And there should be information available stating the real risks and benifits of using the drugs. Not ones written by government and not one written by drug users but impartial stating the REAL risks.

I think people should have the right to choose what they do, and help should be available for those who have trouble.

[Μορφέας]

Do you have any examples to back up any of these claims?

Im sure if you UTSE sina you can find some, stop being so lazy

It looks like we have conflicting oppinons, yours that the government is incompetent at their jobs, me that they make calculated decisions based on the information they have at hand. I find it hard to reason with your logic as much as you would like to think

I would even get off my arse and go work on a drug farm, or maybe a shootin gallery, no no, drug tester.

do something productive instead of smoking bongs aye? congrats, do it anyway. accepting you have a problem is the first step to being a productive, contributing member of society mwahaha

Your quite right though, if they were available it would be like smokers and drinkers, they would have the freedom of choice to do what they want, and the majority would not as you said. Although of the people that do choose to use, how many would be responsible? It will never happen

Teo summed up the underlying issue at the end of his post, their should be a choice, education and the ability to seek help.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Tepa

[jasemateau]

i agree with gold finger

i for one cant handle mj, yet i other substances i have experimented with in countries where legal. ish. i had no problems with because well i chose to educate myself about the risks first

i had can use once then walk away and never think about it again, i rationalize it to myself if i have some re-occuring thoughts about the desire for a substance and push forward in my mind what i really want, i want to enjoy it but only enjoy it. not think about the burden of how am i gunna get more. it totally changes value to me.

having said that i also understand how there is so many people with addictive behavour weaknesses.

just dont pass the green to me, ewwwww (shudders!!!!)

my 2 cents

Edited September 2, 2007 by jasemateau

[apothecary]

The recent kava ban had reasons associated with it, namely the abuse in aboriginal communities which has been mentioned by many doctors and what ever in all the various topics around here. Every substance is open to abuse whether it has toxic side effects or not is another matter, kava seems relatively safe interms of toxicity and behavior (certainly much more so than alcohol) but people are still getting trashed on it and not doing anything. In these communities where alcohol is banned and petrol is limited I think it makes sense to knock out all drugs being thats what they seem to be trying to do. Sure I agree baning anything isnt the answer. But yeah basically people in these places cannot even be responsible with petrol. I actually believe the intentions were good, dry communities up and get them healthy and being productive, but I dont think the way they did it was good.

I read precisely one doctors quote in the various topics (please correct me if I'm wrong), the rest being politicians, grandstanding politicians in an election run up...what a surprise.

How is it that this plant can be 'abused' by every day kava drinkers in the Pacific, but when people in Arnhem land use it they become so intoxicated they cannot even perform simple daily tasks?

Realistically the only reason for the kava ban was to allow new Federal intervention laws into NT communities.

The majority of the population doesnt share the same beliefs in drugs as we do and I know people on this forum aswell have in the past had their troubles with abuse of certian substances showing we are not immune to abusing these things.

I think abuse as a justification is a limited justification at best, and definitely not fitting into the current scheme of things considering 4L of wine costs $10 and you can buy as much of it as you want.

Do I think organisms should be prepared and sold commercially, no.

No codeine? No ergotamine (although I think they don't use this anymore I guess)?

Im sure if you UTSE sina you can find some, stop being so lazy

It looks like we have conflicting oppinons, yours that the government is incompetent at their jobs, me that they make calculated decisions based on the information they have at hand. I find it hard to reason with your logic as much as you would like to think

I asked you for an example because I cannot think of a single one. My opinion seems to be the same as yours, politicians make decisions based on the information they have, my problem is they rarely have any first hand information on the topic, and often their decisions are influenced by their own personal beliefs, monetary contributions from large corporations and whatever they can do to get votes.

[occidentalis]

The war on drugs is a religious war. It started in the 'enlightenment' in europe - a movement away from the prescientific belief systems to the scientific method. Medical science was established and power shifted away from female herbalists/shamans (also known as witches) to male doctors. When the Americas were invaded by Europeans, the christian invaders saw the indigenous systems of healing - using drugs and other techniques for communication with spirits - as being satanic and did all they could to wipe them out. These political and social structures are still the same ones that are present today, and most of our drug law is a direct hand me down from the US via the UN convention on psychotropic substances. The war on drugs is not based on the health effects of drugs or anything nearly so rational. It is based in fear and control.

In fact if you look at records of how police and politicians talk about drugs and drug use, the point they bring up is usually the fact that drugs can get you high! For example, the only 'rational' reasons given for Salvia's prohibition was that users experienced strong visual hallucinations, and could be at risk from motor control problems such as falling over or crashing a car. Since the second point is entirely null, given that alcohol is just as bad as salvia, one can conclude that salvia was banned purely because it causes you to trip. They don't want people to get high.

While I think economic issues may have some bearing on prohibition - tobacco companies have sponsored anti-cannabis research and the alcohol industry has fought to shut down rave clubs in the UK - I think these are temporary glitches in the overall scheme of things. If you look at the war on drugs in a historical context it becomes clear that it is more about religion, politics, and power.

On safety and potential of abuse, may I present another possible factor that appears to have been overlooked: education.

Most of us are taught from a fairly early age how to use drugs like caffeine and alcohol safely. Our parents allow us to have small amounts and we learn what the effects are and how to dose appropriately (well, most do).

btw, if you don't think caffeine belongs in this discussion, stop taking it completely for a couple of months and then have a strong coffee. It is a reasonably strong stimulant.

Most people are not taught to use drugs other than these when they are growing up because they are mostly illegal and socially stigmatised. For this reason it is much more likely for people who are predisposed to doing so to find themselves abusing - ie, using unsafely - other drugs. Of course this happens with alcohol too - as mentioned above, there will always be some people who will abuse drugs no matter what. But I believe that with a more open and honest education system combined with controlled prescription-based availability to those that need, we could fix 'the drug problem' within a generation. That small percentage of people who are predisposed drug abusers will probably need to use many of the same therapies and other tools they use now.

[Vertmorpheus]

There is rarely just one reason for anything, and this is the classic case. You could start off at erisians v illuminati, anslinger v poor mexicans, egyptian officials tired of a lack of development in their country, overzealous moral types worried about orgies, smoke ins and purges (as they will nver be invited to them), issues of tax v taxfree, that its rarely the substance that is the problem but rather the sections of society that "seem to" use them the most, or the least responsibly. Might be that "They" know that if you had everything on tap, nothing would everget done again, we'd all be too busy sitting under shrubs scratching like leopards in the sun... the reason drugs are illegal NOW of course, is that for all these reasons and more, onceuponatime, people decided to make this that and the other illegal... and laws are made a lot more readily than they are dismantled. There is no real motivation for pollies to "fight the green fight" as it were because hey... I know I wouldn't vote for johnny just for making mild forms of recreation legal, or less highly illegal... only Bob Brown n co are honestly going to make a suggestion, and guess what... most greenthumbed blacklunged bluebrained stonerinos vote for that side of the field anyway.

I don't think there is one "true reason". Most "true reasons" actually kind of stink, such as "because drugs make ugroovy n open minded man, not like that uptight square in the suit with the nice big car and offspring". Or because they show you a "realer world". Nope. I reckon its the same world. If drugs were the ticket to supreme consciousness (from "their" POV) then the high n mighties would look a helluva lot higher. Course, I'm sure after some hundred year old scotch at a cabinet meeting, plus some of those pep pills the doc gave you to keep you soldiering on thru those public engagements, some painkillers for hand sprain and inflammation of the lips from kissing babies, they're all just beaming away.

If anything is close to a "real reason" its that too many people are simply in a position to profit immensely from drugs being illegal. Who is going to give up on an easy earner that would be basically worthless in the event you could grow an acre of the shit yourself, boil up all you wanted in the garage or whatever. Fear, religion, anger, all are great motivators... but money is king of them all somehow. For every fear, you can make cash selling the solution, for every religion you can make even more selling literature, weekend workshops, charm bracelets and ear candles.

Something to be said for the idea that its because the more "public" users are often useless demotivated shits who cannot function in society. Of course some people can function but choose not to, some make a conscious decision to move beyond notions of "success" (there simply isnt enough shit around for us all to be rich, not going to happen, and the richer you try to be the less there is in someone elses pocket, for some reason) so long as they are meeting bills, saving a little and the car runs most of the time... buy a plasma. Same shit on TV anyway. then there are those that want the plasma AND the laid back lifestyle so they just steal one, or sell drugs to get one because of their inflated value as a result of being illegal in the first place because scumbags sell them to get plasmas and so on an so on... silly state of affairs.

least we live somewhere that occasional bullshit persecution-on-basis-of-hairstyle aside, typically doesnt give much of a fuck at all if you have a few plants, a few whatevers, enough for yourself and a mate of just about anything... even on the repeat offense in a fair few cases. Not like you get stood against a wall for being found in possession of an Extremely Dangerous Ice Break Bottle too often, or getting your joint holding hand lopped off. Not to say that its fair to talk about tapping phones and planting cams in your house etc on the offchance that you ARE doing something a bit shifty... but if we can't have a middle ground, I think we are at least on the more pleasant part of the slippery slope of state sponsored busybodiness.

long as noone is stealing music now....

VM

Edited September 2, 2007 by Vertmorpheus

[Amulte]

Yes... i should have corrected the 1st line in my post after writing the whole post i realised it i changed my opinion somwhat while writing. And even now i realise Religion plays a primary factor aswell.

Very valid points about the potential financial gain, esspecially when one realises majority would be controlled via perscription.

Good points about prohibition too. And ignorance!! i stand corrected, it surly would primarily be ignorance then anything else.

Personally i dont think they should be public access as there is with alcohol. Primarily the synthetics and drugs of addiction WOULD be scripted, so the majority of stupid kids are out of the question, tho im sure there would be some able to get access. just because its available doesnt mean it wont be controlled.

One of the main problems with the harder drugs is the purity. Heroin for example, hell yes its insanly addictive, but its the change in purity from batch to batch that screws up most people besides dirty needles and such. I dont want illegal drugs to become legal due to availability, i want them legal so people stop fucking themselves over. bring them out of the shadows, teach about resposible use of drugs as we do with grog, education is the key.

The Greed is more-so with USA as opposed to Au. Au just follows suit or acts blindly. Ignorance again.

[teonanacatl]

Sina the reports detailing the abuse were written by doctors and from what my dad has told me about kava use in fiji it could be determined they abuse it as well. Id say they use it like alcohol is used here, my dad said they would sit in a circle and drink till they fell asleep then wake up and keep going till asleep again etc. Likewise betel nut is I think abused in PNG, some people cannot live without it. But it is these peoples traditions so we have no right to intervene unless it is effecting other people seriously. So both substances are used as alcohol is used in our culture, that means some will abuse it some wont.

I agree there is a serious alcohol problem in aus but the government could never control that so they act to control what they can because they see it as right. And i agree banning because of abuse potential is not a good reason on its own because so many things are open to abuse.

When I say should organisms be prepared and sold commercially I mean commercial sales of magic mushrooms etc.

In fact if you look at records of how police and politicians talk about drugs and drug use, the point they bring up is usually the fact that drugs can get you high! For example, the only 'rational' reasons given for Salvia's prohibition was that users experienced strong visual hallucinations, and could be at risk from motor control problems such as falling over or crashing a car. Since the second point is entirely null, given that alcohol is just as bad as salvia, one can conclude that salvia was banned purely because it causes you to trip. They don't want people to get high.

I think the main point here is they are afraid of what they dont know, how many people have tried the drug before schedualing it Id say none. To many people the idea of hallucinations is associated with nightmares etc.

Good point about the bringing up aswell

So I think the governments are truly unaware and ignorant of these compounds and act in what they feel is everyones best intrest (lets face it majority of voters wants drugs illegal). What is needed is unbiased information, erowid is biased. As torsten said in another thread these changes will be brought about by people with phd's and people in respected positions rather then the hippies in nimbin.