Mushroom Casings

[eccles]

Hello!

I was wondering about casing mixtures for colonised rye grain.

I was thinking along the lines of the peat + perlite + lime mixture that is used in the method on www.mushmush.nl - they give relative proportions, but don't really say how much to use.

So if someone had several bottles of colonised rye grain, and some aluminium BBQ 'drip trays', what would be a good thickness for a layer of grain? and thickness for the casing? I am assuming that perhaps 1/2 - 1 inch would be ok... but I suppose you wouldn't want to put too much grain in there, because it might get wasted? (I assume you don't need a thick layer just to colonise the casing?), and would a thin or thick casing layer be better??

Also, I'd like to know about sterilisation of the casing. I have been reading through the archives and discovered that Dutchie microwaves on high for 5 mins and has no probs. this sounds like an excellent method to me could anyone imagine any probs with that? Also, can anyone imagine any mixtures being better than that peat+lime+perlite one?

thanks!

[Guest reville]

Well for your agaricus bisporus colonised rye this would be fine . however some other species are known to do very well with vericulite as the sole casing ingredient. holds water very well and is inert so nasties like trichoderma cant take hold.

comes highly recommended

[coin]

Trichoderma wont take hold on your substrate as long as pH is correct, i think? (ie, peat adjusted with lime)

peat holds just a little less water than verm, and when it's wetted up correctly, it's just as 'fluffy'..but i spose that little bit of perlite would help it to stay airy and easily penetrable/avoid compaction and provide a good surface microclimate.

Stamets always lists verm as optional for casings, and in fairly small amounts..

Rev, obviously you've heard of great success with verm only..but it seems to favour cobweb mould (cobweb mildew..Dactylium) ..this probably isn't a problem with correct moisture and a speedy colonising/pinning strain..

What do you think of this idea that verm affects the taste of the mushrooms?

microwave is fine..tho pasteurisation would be better for peat?

personally i'd imagine plain verm is better for thinly laid casings, ie, small amount of substrate.

but anyway..what could be simpler than plain vermiculite?

[DazedSol]

yea a verm only casing will work.....i prefer to use coco coir instead though..its sterile like verm...but not as messy and seems to hold water better..not sure if you guys have that around....i know you could order it over the net though......hope this helps

[Guest reville]

Originally posted by coin:

Trichoderma wont take hold on your substrate as long as pH is correct, i think?

yeah so did I. only gaboderma and pleurotus can hold out against this beastie.

High CO2 during incubation exacerbates the problem.

all casings compact over time, after each flush fill in th divots and you can recase for renewed vigour

Rev, obviously you've heard of great success with verm only..but it seems to favour cobweb mould (cobweb mildew..Dactylium)

really? only prob i have is those damn gnats...cosmetic prob only

What do you think of this idea that verm affects the taste of the mushrooms?

bullshit IMHO. wash it if your worried

microwave is fine..tho pasteurisation would be better for peat?

the brand is the major issue, some are purposefully innoculated with trichoderma

personally i'd imagine plain verm is better for thinly laid casings, ie, small amount of substrate.

yes i fruit my oysters off straw blocks and ive adapted the perlite humidification tek for cubes to it.the perlit ehumidifies the air and the vermiculte site sob top as an adsorbant to soak up water as you spray it on - rehyrdates block thus extending the # of flushes

sawdust blocks for woodlovers give extended yielded from this perlite tek too.

Im not working with cubes as im concentrating on all the other fine edibles i have but if you succeed with cubes you could call it a successful stage one

- but would you believe i still cannot grow normal buttons to save my life

its the compost trick thats hard

but anyway..what could be simpler than plain vermiculite?

tell me when you find it. please

[eccles]

ok, thanks for all your replies

so how does this sound?

in a large plastic tub (with relatively tight fitting lid), put an inch and a half of perlite on the bottom, and wet (with 1/4-1/2 inch of water? although I have read to have no excess water - any of you guys used perlite to humidify?). then put in the aluminium trays. empty two bottles of 5-brothers spawn into each one, then add a THIN layer of vermiculite - cover with foil and put into a cupboard until the vermiculite is colonised (is this how it works with verm?), then once that is done, put the trays on top of the perlite (OOOPS! ok obviously I wouldn't put the perlite in until the trays were ready to go in) and then put the lid on, and keep in a weak, indirect source of light...

how does that sound? anything I said here sound particularly disasterous?

I was not intending to sterilise either the perlite or verm, but I was going to put some H2O2 into the water.

any comments? thanks again!

[coin]

yep, you're right about trichoderma and CO2.

hehe never noticed gnats except when the humidity & temp were much too high (for casings, but not verm cakes)

rev, if you get a teaspoon or two of vermiculite and soak it in hot water for five minutes..strain it really well through cheesecloth..now drink the water...do you think there's that recognisable taste as in mushrooms grown on verm based substrate?

that aside,

large plastic tub? like those 60-70L ones?

the little bit of water at the bottom (with perlite) won't hurt.

i'd use something (like a cake cooling tray *shrugs*) to raise the trays above the perlite, so you have greater surface area for evaporation.

you could let the mycelium recover and do it's casing colonisation thing in the tub..(don't know about yours, but my spare cupboards are sometimes a little dusty...besides, your tub/terarrium should already be temp controlled somehow [position, light source, fishtank heater, etc])

for the casing, i'd bring the vermiculite to the correct moisture content then sterilise it..microwave is easiest (i avoid them as much as possible but that's a personal quirk)

H2O2 is fine at any of those stages (or if you find you need to mist to keep up humidity..not so much a problem with casings) if used at proper dilution.

[This message has been edited by coin (edited 03 February 2002).]

[Guest reville]

OK i concede. there may be some basis for the verm taste theory but its not IMHO significant when cubes taste like old

socks anyway

All i can add is that when making a reconstituted cake as we are talking about doing.

a layer of vermiculte on the bottom of the tray is good too to absorb excess mositure.

once colonised pins will form at the interface of both bottom and top verm layers or whwerevether is both moisture and exposure to light.

basically you place it directly onto the perlite and the water moves through the verm into the cake by osmosis

so how to keep the CO2 down - most easily ie not manula fanning 3 times a day

I suggest an aquarium pump with manifold and airstones to each tub on a 24hour timer once every 3 hours for 15 minutes to displace CO2.

excess CO2 will give probs with mould and aborted amd malformed pins. excess humidity will show up as inky black bacterial pitting and rotting of mature mushrooms

even better you could cut small hole in the sied of the tub and stick in a micropatch filter to allow gas exchange but not spores and flies. Of course good air exchange and adequate humidity are fairly incompatible thats wher the trick lies.