mutant Posted November 14, 2008 "Ecstasy analogues found in cacti" Jun 2008 abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18720674 peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted November 14, 2008 That seems more like an advert, I don't think its claims can be considered based on truth. yes ...from an add....... however....... bodybuilding industry does it's homework, so it shouldnt be completely neglected and could help shed some light on hordenine from another perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Griffin... Posted November 14, 2008 A close friend had looked into hordenine in cacti some months back (TLC) but there should be the chance to do some more conclusive research in the near future. It's a job on the "to do list". I will keep you all informed. Thanks mutant for the the ref, good to see some research ala Shulgin style "alive and kicking". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 1, 2009 hordenine is in weightloss supplements and shit like that. it's fairly prevalent in barley, so i would imagine it's in most folks' diets anyway, as barley is in just about everything.hordenine = alkaloid hordenum = barley's genus Is this true? Barley has some of the same chemicals as "Peyotes"??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted April 2, 2009 Is this true? Barley has some of the same chemicals as "Peyotes"??? It's my understanding that most (if not all) of the Hordenine in the roots or shoots (one paper I read says only in shoots) of sprouts is gone by the time the plants reach maturity. From The alkaloids By Geoffrey A. Cordell, R H Manske, H L Holmes, R. G. Rodrigo, p320: Barley sprouts 0.17% hordenine reaching a peak of 0.45% about 4 days after germination and decending form there. The book also list Trich. lamproclorus as the richest natural source - up to 5%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted April 2, 2009 Hordenine is in lots of plants teotz, its not a very surprising alkaloid- just a very primitive tyrosine derivative, an easy thing for plants to make since the direct precursor is an extremely abundant amino acid and a useful thing for them to make since its like antimicrobial n stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) Well damn. Cool. Learn something new every day. Edited April 2, 2009 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted April 2, 2009 hordenine is a pea,like mescaline, peas are fairly common chemicals.........phenyl ethyl amines! t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 3, 2009 Well could you show me an occurrence of mescaline outside Cactacae? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted April 4, 2009 no! t s t . there are some reported but i wont repeat them cos i think their bullshit......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) I didn't think there was any... I've heard perhaps some Acacia trees may have mescaline? Is that bullshit? Edited April 5, 2009 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted April 5, 2009 i believe it is total bullshit and the sooner people remove those references from the records the better imho..........it started out as 2 species first i think,now i've seen 4 or 5 but i think their just transferring the bad reference to other acacia sp......really think its best not to propagate this myth......though those plants quite likely have something interesting in them i doubt its mescaline..... the researchers involved refused to answer any qs about it! t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted April 5, 2009 I think the problem with acacia and mescaline is that no amounts were published and previous tests of the same species failed to find the molecule. I assume that they used too sensitive of a test, example you could test your keyboard in front of you for nicotine, if your test was sensitive enough you would find it, however there isn't enough of it do recover for all intents and purposes. This can be the same thing for plants, if the tests are too sensitive then you can find things that aren't actually there in any significant amount. There are other controversial aspects to the paper but that is one that strikes me as relevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted April 5, 2009 ha, the good old mescalin in acacias myth, let me add some conspiracy to this for flavor. some australian institutions experimented with the by than very popular truth serum... so they needed mescalin in there war efforts to extract the truth out of prisoners of war. australia had no mescalin, so somebody found a way to make mescalin out of some precursors found in acacias. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 5, 2009 some australian institutions experimented with the by than very popular truth serum...so they needed mescalin in there war efforts to extract the truth out of prisoners of war. australia had no mescalin, so somebody found a way to make mescalin out of some precursors found in acacias. Ok wow. Is that serious? Or are you kidding? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) yeh,we're all jumping in to post just giving bullshit more life......loose it! this crap comes up here a couple times a year,i wont be posting about it again. t s t . i do wish someone would test that first acacia and put an end to it! Edited April 6, 2009 by t st tantra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) No I understand... Let's put this in the thread- All posts made about non-cacti containing mescaline are PURE speculation! Please do not propagate these myths by repeating them elsewhere! Edited April 5, 2009 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) two different topics being discussed re:trees and mesc? I didn't read into it, but wasn't it a novel synthesis from eucalyptus? I seem to recall some very knowledgeable people talking about that. Not a particular practicality but more so novel theory? happy to drop bullshit speculation, but getting to the base facts is a point Anyway back to hordenine. Edited April 6, 2009 by gerbil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted April 6, 2009 two different topics being discussed re:trees and mesc?I didn't read into it, but wasn't it a novel synthesis from eucalyptus? I seem to recall some very knowledgeable people talking about that. Not a particular practicality but more so novel theory? happy to drop bullshit speculation, but getting to the base facts is a point Anyway back to hordenine. yep, i meant eucalyptus instead of acacia, thx for putting that right gerbil. the bullshit report claiming that a tree containd mescalin, talks about one particular acacia though, but i said precursor, not the actual alakaloid!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted April 6, 2009 Alright... so in reality no known botanicals outside the family Cactaceae contain mescaline in it's true form? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted April 7, 2009 Alright... so in reality no known botanicals outside the family Cactaceae contain mescaline in it's true form? I'd put it as: no plant outside of the cactus family has been clearly demonstrated to contain mescaline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted April 7, 2009 i think dragibus could have it in its untrue form but i need to check the literature? t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted April 7, 2009 Beverly Clements published two papers in the journal Phytochemistry a bit more than a decade ago suggesting mescaline (and a host of things including methamphetamine and other novel putative natural products) had been found in two Acacia species. Some glaring problems undermine all trust in those two accounts. One of which is her refusal to discuss the paper with anyone, another of which is their claim to have synthesized their reference standards including at least one for which no synthesis has ever been published. Sitaram Ghosal on the other hand has reported N-methylmescaline in the leguminous Alhagi so the parent compound could conceivably show up someplace else someday. Its unlikely that Ghosal misidentified their alkaloid. It was not that a novel synthesis of mescaline from a Eucalyptus appeared but rather that the use of that particular Eucalyptus' sawdust was proposed as a novel source of syringaldehyde - which of course is a precursor for some synthetic approaches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Aha, I remember the amphetamine thing in a couple of acacias... So it's only stated in two papers by the same investigator? Could one find this for us? Elaboration on why the papers should be regarded of questionable credability? Edited April 8, 2009 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD. Posted April 8, 2009 researchers at Texas A&M University claimed to have found amphetamine and methamphetamine in the foliage of two Acacia species native to Texas, A. berlandieri and A. rigidula. Previously, both of these compounds had been thought to be human inventions. These findings have never been duplicated, and the analyses are believed by many biochemists to be the result of experimental error, and as such the validity of the report has come into question. Alexander Shulgin, one of the more experimented biochemical investigator and creator of hundred of new substances of that chemical family, tried to contact and verify that finding but the authors of the paper never answered, so natural amphetamine remains most likely a false discovery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
